Cannabis: Pro Or Anti-metabolic?

[Randle Cyclist]

There are a few threads here covering the progesterogenic effect of cannabis as well as its ability to increase pregnenolone. However, there is little discussion about its effect on the metabolism in general. The research that I've found is conflicting. Keep in mind that I'm primarily referring to psychoactive cannabis aka marijuana and not hemp or high CBD cannabis, though I think CBD deserves to be addressed as well given its rising popularity.

I'm sure most have seen the studies that show that cannabis users typically have a lower bmi than nonusers despite consuming on average more than 500 more calories than nonusers. If not, this meta analysis covers the findings:
Theoretical Explanation for Reduced Body Mass Index and Obesity Rates in Cannabis Users

What I find concerning is that rodent studies indicate that THC causes a drop in body temperature:
Cannabidiol fails to reverse hypothermia or locomotor suppression induced by Ù9-tetrahydrocannabinol in Sprague-Dawley rats

I noticed this myself last winter when I used cannabis for a week to help me sleep while I recovered from a poison ivy rash. It reliably dropped my body temperature over 1 degree Fahrenheit every time. Wouldn't this drop in body temperature imply a decrease in the metabolic rate?

Also, I've seen conflicting evidence regarding the lipogenic effects of cannabis. This study indicates that adipogenesis is decreased by thc: Biological effects of THC and a lipophilic cannabis extract on normal and insulin resistant 3T3-L1 adipocytes - PubMed

While this study suggests that it increases lipogenesis while decreasing brown fat activity: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/can.2016.0014

Lastly, it appears that chronic cannabis use shifts lipid storage away from subcutaneous fat to visceral fat. In fact, chronic use evidently promotes insulin resistance in subcutaneous adipose tissue:
Metabolic Effects of Chronic Cannabis Smoking

Wouldn't insulin resistance in subq fat tissue be a good thing? Visceral fat is often said to be terrible for your health but at least it's easy to burn off. Subcutaneous fat stores can be notoriously stubborn to lose.

My guess is that in the short term, THC activates the Cb1 receptor and triggers fat storage with a subsequent drop in metabolism. Then, after prolonged use, the Cb1 receptor becomes desensitised which abolishes the negative metabolic effects of THC. Perhaps chronic use even causes a boost in the metabolic rate.

I've read conflicting reports of people beginning to use cannabis and its effect on their weight. Same goes for the stories of those who have quit after years of use/abuse. Some people lose weight fast while others gain rapidly.

I'm also wondering if we can extrapolate these findings to CBD. Since CBD is an antagonist to the Cb1 receptor, short term use causes an increase in the metabolic rate and rise in temperature. Is it possible with continuous use that CBD could cause a proliferation of Cb1 receptors which would then prime the body for fat storage upon cessation?

Does anyone have any further insight on the subject, anecdotal or otherwise?

 

[cjm]

Interesting research!

I've been smoking every day for the past 10+ years, mostly sativa strains, and I can attest that I will get cold sometimes after. If I'm super stressed out to the point of numbness of feeling in my body, I won't always notice the coldness, but it manifests as a quick burst of mental energy before settling into the blissful, calm state. Ray's comments about pot being estrogenic (and estrogen being a stimulant) made me think estrogen was the culprit behind this. I believe the true positive effect from pot is hormetic, i.e., increases in preg and prog. Speaking of fat, I'm horribly underweight and have had a lot of trouble putting mass back on. I'm 33, male, used to weigh 190 in college, now I'm down to 160 on a good day. I was legit skinny fat (spare tire, had never had one before) for a few months after beginning to "Peat" but that went away and I maintain a fairly low body fat percentage. The fat/insulin resistance angle is interesting, I've just never had to worry about being fat at all.

Oh! Neat sidebar. I bought hemp and started smoking it. I initially wanted to make a CBD extract because I get good anxiolytic effects from CBD topicals but I just pack a bowl full and smoke it during the day while I'm working. I think I really just like smoking (I vape nicotine as well) but it's definitely calming. When I took a break from sativa for a week about a month ago, smoking only hemp, I reintroduced a high-quality sativa vape oil and the body effects were incredible.

I think THC can work in either direction metabolically depending upon the state of the individual.

Edit: " Cannabis is antiandrogenic or estrogenic, but it can be protective in some situations." - RP

Those "some situations" are what I'm curious about.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Thanks for your reply, cjm. I used a strong sativa orally, Malawi gold, daily for roughly six months straight due to a back injury that caused sciatica. That was 4 years ago and I quit cold turkey without issue. I lost weight during that time period but I never got my physique where I wanted. Like you, I've also never had to worry about being fat it's just that I'd like to remain shredded.

Now, I've been vaporizing every night for about 8 weeks now and I plan on doing so for 2 more weeks until I'm out of the current stressful situation that I'm in. I'm essentially using it to induce sleep at night. My body weight has remained roughly the same (~150lbs at 6'1") but I seem to be very prone to lower ab subcutaneous fat storage the moment I slightly increase calories in an attempt to build muscle. And no, I do not get the munchies so it's not an issue of overeating. It's very noticeable because my abs are veiny but the veins will quickly disappear on my lower abs.

Is cannabis to blame? I've heard a few people say it can promote water retention as well. Or, maybe, androsterone is the cause? I've been playing around with androsterone at 3mg topically for about a month now to boost testosterone. I read in another thread that aromatase inhibitors promote fat gain but I doubt such small amounts of androsterone could cause this.

I plan on quiting weed cold turkey in a couple of weeks and seeing what happens. I also have a few oz of high cbd hemp I could vaporize but I honestly hate the minty taste. I also read somewhere that cbd is far more estrogenic than THC.

Could cannabis promote leanness and fatness at the same time? What I mean is a lower body weight but high body fat percentage. In other words, skinny fat. One of the studies I linked showed no significant difference in total body fat percentage between users and nonusers. I've known a few stoners and all were skinny but none of them had decent physiques.

I'd love to conclusively settle the issue, not just for myself but for anyone else curious about how cannabis use, acute and chronic, affects the metabolism.

 

[Gone Peating]

Someone posted a study that showed cannabis results in an incredibly high increase in pregnenolone in the brain. It seems like this is a defense mechanism by the body

 

[boris]

Use it as a legal way to see things from a different perspective once in a while. Chronic use seems to mess with blood sugar. Some chronic users can only get hungry after smoking and have no appetite for days after quitting. It also seems to impair the liver, even when smoking, but moreso when eating. The feeling after a big edible dose felt to me like acetaminophen poisoning.

 

[rei]

Someone posted a study that showed cannabis results in an incredibly high increase in pregnenolone in the brain. It seems like this is a defense mechanism by the body

This is probably the reason behind the "universal medicine" status it has been come to known for. pregnenolone and progesterone increase because the body thinks it is eing poisoned, but it is merely a benign temporary "disturbance"

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Someone posted a study that showed cannabis results in an incredibly high increase in pregnenolone in the brain. It seems like this is a defense mechanism by the body

Yes, I saw that. I wonder if chronic use would cause this effect to abate. Surely a massive increase in pregnenolone would wreck one's cholesterol levels if it continued unchecked.

Use it as a legal way to see things from a different perspective once in a while. Chronic use seems to mess with blood sugar. Some chronic users can only get hungry after smoking and have no appetite for days after quitting. It also seems to impair the liver, even when smoking, but moreso when eating. The feeling after a big edible dose felt to me like acetaminophen poisoning.

That's my plan once I quit in a couple of weeks. I hate having to rely on any medicine other than coffee and thyroid. I need it now to sleep and the potential drop in body temperature is a welcome effect for me now since I'm sleeping outdoors(moldy house; long story). Could you post a study on the liver impairment? Anything that interferes with the liver seems to cause a cascade of negative effects when used long term. But yes, I agree, using it orally sucks.

 

[Jessie]

Ray actually addressed this briefly on the email wiki I believe. He said it messes with the prostaglandins, so anyone who isn't PUFA depleted would likely experience anti-metabolic effects. Cannabis also increases FAO, lypolisis, and cortisol. My guess is it's something most people would want to keep to a minimum if they desire metabolic efficiency. It's funny how western culture perceives cannabis to be a "anti-stress" when it's actually raising cortisol.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Jessie, does it increase prostaglandins or decrease them? Prostaglandins are inflammatory so I assume it decreases them? I know one prostaglandins have various functions but one of them, Pgf2a, causes fat cell death.

The studies I posted above show that THC inhibits lipolysis. By extension that would lower fatty acid oxidation. Also, coffee and caffeine both increase cortisol in the short term. Could cannabis be similar to coffee in that the increase in cortisol is abolished with long term usage?

 

[Jessie]

It's possible, I don't really know. Also context is everything. Would cannabis effect a sugar eater the same way it effects low carbers? Probably not. If you can keep the randle cycle in check by eating plenty of sugar then cannabis may not cause many problems (kind of like how coffee on a high-sugar diet doesn't effect stress hormones near as bad). Also taking vitamin E with your cannabis could help deal with the prostaglandin issue.

We clearly don't know everything there is to know about cannabis and how it relates to our own physiology. You can thank the FDA/DEA for that, restricting scientific research and whatnot. It's only been within the past 5-10 years that studies on cannabis have really took off. So we're likely to know considerably more about it in the coming years.

 

[milkboi]

Smoking joints makes me hypermetabolic. I‘m talking body temperature of 38°C/104°F.
The tobacco probably also plays a role in that tho.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

If you can keep the randle cycle in check

Puhlease... Have you seen my username? Lol anyway, cannabis and low carb is a recipe for disaster. It will drop your already low blood sugar and put you at serious risk of syncope from hypotension. It's wise to have fruit on hand if you're going to use cannabis during the day. Sugar and liquids seem to abolish the autistic-like effects that can sometimes come with the high.

Milkboi, are you serious? 104 is unreal. Does your temperature increase that high every time you smoke? I'm going to have to measure my temperature pre and post vape tonight and report back.

 

[Gone Peating]

This is probably the reason behind the "universal medicine" status it has been come to known for. pregnenolone and progesterone increase because the body thinks it is eing poisoned, but it is merely a benign temporary "disturbance"

The body is pretty good at determining what’s benign or not. It may not be as benign as you think

 

[milkboi]

Puhlease... Have you seen my username? Lol anyway, cannabis and low carb is a recipe for disaster. It will drop your already low blood sugar and put you at serious risk of syncope from hypotension. It's wise to have fruit on hand if you're going to use cannabis during the day. Sugar and liquids seem to abolish the autistic-like effects that can sometimes come with the high.

Milkboi, are you serious? 104 is unreal. Does your temperature increase that high every time you smoke? I'm going to have to measure my temperature pre and post vape tonight and report back.

It doesn't happen 100% of the time, but it always seems to promote a super high metabolism.

Edit: Mixed up the C to F conversion. I meant to write 100.4 F

 

[Jessie]

Keep in mind a spike in cortisol will also raise your temps.

There's a doctor who made a famous YouTube video about juciing raw cannabis bud. IMO this way probably has the most beneficial effects with the lowest amount of side effects. Something about how THCA and CBDA act before they're decarboxylated. The decarboxylation removes some of the helpful properties apparently. However most people won't prefer raw cannabis because there's no high to it. Here's the vid:

 

[Randle Cyclist]

The body is pretty good at determining what’s benign or not. It may not be as benign as you think

That's what concerns me. I've known some stereotypical potheads and I have to wonder if excessive weed use made them that way or if they're naturally like that and they use weed to cope.

Edit: Mixed up the C to F conversion. I meant to write 100.4 F

I was gonna say...
Regardless, I'm going to see what happens to my temps with cannabis.

Jessie, I doubt my cortisol levels will spike much since they're already high at the moment. Also, juicing raw buds doesn't seem feasible for most people unless they are growers. Seems like a waste. I tried raw buds years ago in hopes of lowering brain inflammation following a concussion. I had raw buds in the morning so I could be clear-headed all day but cannabutter in the evening. I don't know if it worked or not. I certainly didn't feel anything from it.

I believe raw buds are inactive and are unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on the metabolism.

 

[LUH 3417]

Recreational Cannabis Use and TCM

I enjoy the Chinese medicine perspective on weed - it’s qualities are cold and damp, making it damaging to the liver. It can disperse qi temporarily but overtime it drains your vital essence. Pretty true in my experience.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

I'm going to see what happens to my temps with cannabis.

I measured 99.2F or 37.33C before cannabis in a fasted state and 99.1F or 37.28C fifteen minutes later after 5 hits. I would have taken another reading later but I fell asleep shortly after. I'll have to try it again once it's winter because according to one of the rodent studies that I posted, the most remarkable THC-induced drops in temperature occur when the ambient temperature is cold.

Maybe continous use of cannabis attenuates the drop in body temperature? The fact that a significant drop does occur in acute use leads me to believe that cannabis is potently anti-metabolic, at least with short term use.

I think it's worth discussing its effect on testosterone given that hormone's role in the metabolism and body composition. The research I've done is ambiguous. Some studies report a major drop in test levels while others show an increase. It's all very frustrating.

 

[johnwester130]

anecdotally, pot smokers look youthful and younger than their age; almost feminine looking

 

[Jessie]

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot that still needs to be discovered about cannabis and how it interacts with our physiology. I think it's premature to assume good or bad things about it. Even though I've never put much faith in chinese medicine I think raysputin has a good point about the liver. Which would also backup Ray's comments about it distorting the prostaglandins. If you have a good liver and you avoid polyunsaturated fats on a regular basis it's probably not going to bother you much, particularly if you're a infrequent user of it.