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CARNIVORES vs VEGETARIANS
- Thread starter Rinse & rePeat
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Ha! Ha! Ha! Little do they realize, what a joke they made of themseves with that one!
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I wonder what these people do when they have a rat or bug infestation?
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Since losing 18 pounds, since October, I have come to some realizations on this subject of "Carnivores vs Vegetarian", neither is right for me. I have known that eating meat has not been helpful to rid myself of excess fat, while shellfish is, but this past 2 months I have not included much meat or shellfish in my diet and have gravitated toward sugar sources and dairy and my fat came off more easily and has not fluctuated. I have had more energy too. If I had to pick being a vegetarian or a carnivore, having been both, I would pick carnivore, because I looked far better as a carnivore than I did a vegetarian. With that being said I am happy to be a "sugar dairy girl" because I don't have to eat bloating animal foods and I don't have to eat things with faces 
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"The famously long-lived people of Azerbaijan eat a diet containing a low ratio of unsaturated to saturated fats, emphasizing fruits, vegetables, and dairy products (Grigorov, et al., 1991)." -Ray Peat
Maybe, in the coming months you might have another realization.Since losing 18 pounds, since October, I have come to some realizations on this subject of "Carnivores vs Vegetarian", neither is right for me. I have known that eating meat has not been helpful to rid myself of excess fat, while shellfish is, but this past 2 months I have not included much meat or shellfish in my diet and have gravitated toward sugar sources and dairy and my fat came off more easily and has not fluctuated. I have had more energy too. If I had to pick being a vegetarian or a carnivore, having been both, I would pick carnivore, because I looked far better as a carnivore than I did a vegetarian. With that being said I am happy to be a "sugar dairy girl" because I don't have to eat bloating animal foods and I don't have to eat things with faces
You are not the number on a scale, or a clothing size, or a fit model body
You are a well designed and beautifully curated masterpiece thousands of years in the making ?
The better question isn’t “veg vs. carn” but instead, What is the best sustainable diet for long term health (not shortterm goals).
Here’s to you making it to a very old age with full health
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"Although I would suppose that a hormone from a horse might be “more natural” for a person's body than a hormone from a plant, the word “natural” as used in the phrases “natural food store,” or “natural medicine,” has come to be associated strongly with things derived from plants. The health food industry, now largely taken over by giant corporations to sell products that weren't producing as much revenue when sold in supermarkets and drugstores, has helped to create a culture in which botanical products are thought to be especially good and safe. Naturally grown free-range chickens used to be favored, because they could eat anything they wanted, but now eggs laid by factory chickens, eating an industrial corn-and-soy diet, are from “vegetarian chickens,” because the marketers know the public will favor eggs that have the vegetarian mystique." -Ray Peat
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I hear what you are saying and totally agree. People on the forum care about their extra fat and rightfully so, we would all like to be our best selves and I am happy to put myself out there anyway I need to to help. As far as being a fit model body, I am doing alright for myself at 58. Good health and a happy life to you too! ?Maybe, in the coming months you might have another realization.
You are not the number on a scale, or a clothing size, or a fit model body
You are a well designed and beautifully curated masterpiece thousands of years in the making ?
The better question isn’t “veg vs. carn” but instead, What is the best sustainable diet for long term health (not shortterm goals).
Here’s to you making it to a very old age with full health
MORE WEIGHT LOSS TALK
“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a...
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"People who drink a quart of milk and a quart of orange juice every day are much less likely to have a hormonal imbalance than people who eat the average "well balanced" diet containing mostly vegetables, grains and legumes." -Ray Peat
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A LOGICAL DIET - Ray Peat
"Most diets are promoted for a single purpose, such as weight loss or heart protection, and usually they don't work even for a limited purpose. If a diet allows you to adapt to varied activities with a minimum of stress, it will help you to avoid many serious problems. Years ago, a retired...
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"The polar explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson was interested in the health effects of a diet based on meat, because of his observation that fresh meat prevented scurvy much more effectively than the fruits and vegetables carried by other polar explorers." -Ray Peat
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I am surprised reading this about cold storage creating toxins in vegetables......
"A dogmatic belief that "memory molecules" would be unable to penetrate the "blood-brain barrier" allowed most biologists to dismiss their work. Ungar's death, and the hostility of most biologists to their work, have caused their ideas to be nearly forgotten for the last 30 years. Negatively charged molecules such as ordinary proteins tend to be repelled by negative charges on the wall of capillaries, but positively charged molecules spontaneously associate with cellular proteins, and easily penetrate the barrier. Highly positively charged molecules tend to concentrate in the brain (Jonkman, et al., 1983), and people are currently attempting to use the principle to deliver antibodies (which are normally excluded from the brain) therapeutically to the brain by combining them with small positively charged molecules (Herve, et al., 2001). This affinity of the brain for positively charged molecules is gradually being recognized as an important factor in the toxicity of ammonia and guanidine derivatives. As mentioned earlier, even endogenous polyamines can be involved in disruption of the blood-brain barrier.
So, apart from the question of exactly what molecules were responsible for the learning transfer produced by McConnell and Ungar, there should be no doubt that polyamines derived from food can enter tissues, especially the brain. People who eat meat from stressed animals are substantially replicating the experiments of McConnell and Ungar, except that people normally eat a variety of foods, and each type of food will have had slightly different experiences in its last days of life. But the deliberate aging of meat is subjecting it to a standardized stress--two or three weeks of cold storage. Because of the great generality of genetic processes, it wouldn't be surprising if cold storage of vegetables turned out to produce polyamine patterns similar to those of cold storage meats. Air pollution and other stressful growing conditions cause vegetables to have very high levels of polyamines.
Prolonged exposure to certain patterns of polyamines might produce particular syndromes, but the mere fact of increasing the total quantity of polyamines in our diet is likely to increase the incidence of stress-related diseases. Experiments with cells in culture show that added polyamines can produce a variety of extremely harmful changes, but so far, there has been almost no investigation of their specific regulatory functions, of their "code."
Besides rejecting stale foods produced under stressful conditions, there are probably some specific ways that we can protect ourselves from polyamine poisoning." Ray Peat
"A dogmatic belief that "memory molecules" would be unable to penetrate the "blood-brain barrier" allowed most biologists to dismiss their work. Ungar's death, and the hostility of most biologists to their work, have caused their ideas to be nearly forgotten for the last 30 years. Negatively charged molecules such as ordinary proteins tend to be repelled by negative charges on the wall of capillaries, but positively charged molecules spontaneously associate with cellular proteins, and easily penetrate the barrier. Highly positively charged molecules tend to concentrate in the brain (Jonkman, et al., 1983), and people are currently attempting to use the principle to deliver antibodies (which are normally excluded from the brain) therapeutically to the brain by combining them with small positively charged molecules (Herve, et al., 2001). This affinity of the brain for positively charged molecules is gradually being recognized as an important factor in the toxicity of ammonia and guanidine derivatives. As mentioned earlier, even endogenous polyamines can be involved in disruption of the blood-brain barrier.
So, apart from the question of exactly what molecules were responsible for the learning transfer produced by McConnell and Ungar, there should be no doubt that polyamines derived from food can enter tissues, especially the brain. People who eat meat from stressed animals are substantially replicating the experiments of McConnell and Ungar, except that people normally eat a variety of foods, and each type of food will have had slightly different experiences in its last days of life. But the deliberate aging of meat is subjecting it to a standardized stress--two or three weeks of cold storage. Because of the great generality of genetic processes, it wouldn't be surprising if cold storage of vegetables turned out to produce polyamine patterns similar to those of cold storage meats. Air pollution and other stressful growing conditions cause vegetables to have very high levels of polyamines.
Prolonged exposure to certain patterns of polyamines might produce particular syndromes, but the mere fact of increasing the total quantity of polyamines in our diet is likely to increase the incidence of stress-related diseases. Experiments with cells in culture show that added polyamines can produce a variety of extremely harmful changes, but so far, there has been almost no investigation of their specific regulatory functions, of their "code."
Besides rejecting stale foods produced under stressful conditions, there are probably some specific ways that we can protect ourselves from polyamine poisoning." Ray Peat
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In this video, linked below, Ray Peat talks about raw vegetables. He says lettuce, in a salad, is an ideal bacteria food, producing bowel inflammation. He also says studies have shown that even rats cannot live on raw vegetables as an exclusive diet!
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This was posted by JamesGatz in the “Ray Peat E-Mail Depository”…
“Diet choices go with evolution—like the squirrel monkeys’ fruit diet, foods that support brain development have to be high in carbohydrate, easy to digest, abundant in the environment, and adequate in overall nutrient content and balance. A less concentrated diet, containing a lot of plant material, causes adaptive enlargement of the intestine -Ray Peat
“Diet choices go with evolution—like the squirrel monkeys’ fruit diet, foods that support brain development have to be high in carbohydrate, easy to digest, abundant in the environment, and adequate in overall nutrient content and balance. A less concentrated diet, containing a lot of plant material, causes adaptive enlargement of the intestine -Ray Peat
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Never heard of this one!
“A Pollotarian someone who eats poultry but not red meat or pork products. People choose this dietary pattern for various reasons.”
www.healthline.com
“A Pollotarian someone who eats poultry but not red meat or pork products. People choose this dietary pattern for various reasons.”
What Is a Pollotarian Diet? Benefits, Food Lists, and More
The pollotarian, or pollo-vegetarian, diet is considered to be a type of semi-vegetarianism. This article reviews the pollotarian diet, including its benefits, downsides, foods to eat and avoid, and a sample meal plan.
www.healthline.com
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“Much of the resurgent skepticism was instigated by an episode of BBC quiz show "QI." Contestants were asked which of the following foods were vegan: almonds, avocado, cantaloupe, kiwi, or butternut squash. Contestant Alan Davies answered, "Any of them," to which moderator Sandi Toksvig responded that, actually, none of these foods belong in a strictly vegan diet, in the same way that honey isn't vegan. She explains that all of these crops rely on bees, and since these particular crops are difficult to cultivate, the bees are treated in an "unnatural way."
www.tastingtable.com
Why Some People Believe Avocados Aren't Vegan - Tasting Table
Believe it or not, avocados have been the target of some strict vegan criticism. But why? Definitively, are avocados actually vegan?
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While the majority of participants agreed that vegetarian diets are healthy and harmless (56.1%), only 34.8% believed this to be true of vegan diets. The majority of participants also believed that a vegetarian (58.7%) or vegan (74.7%) diet can lead to nutritional deficiency. Female gender, younger age, higher education, lower body mass index (BMI), and higher depressive and eating disorder symptoms were found to be associated with vegetarianism/veganism. We did not find increased physical complaints in the group of vegetarians/vegans. Our results point toward a moderate prevalence of vegetarianism/veganism among the general population. Our findings suggest that health care professionals should keep eating disorder pathology, affective status in mind when dealing with individuals who choose a vegetarian/vegan dietary pattern.“
raypeatforum.com
Prevalence And Psychopathology Of Vegetarians And Vegans – Results From A Survey In Germany
Sci Rep. 2020; 10: 6840. Published online 2020 Apr 22. doi: 10.1038/s41598-020-63910-y PMCID: PMC7176641 PMID: 32321977 Prevalence and psychopathology of vegetarians and vegans – Results from a representative survey in Germany Georgios Paslakis,1,2 Candice Richardson,1 Mariel Nöhre,3 Elmar...
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“In the traditional diet, rather than just eating muscle meats, all the animal parts were used. Since collagen makes up about 50% of the protein in an animal, and is free of tryptophan, this means that people were getting about half as much tryptophan in proportion to other amino acids when they used foods such as “head cheese,” ox-tails, and chicken feet.” -Rat Peat
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“I think these facts imply that excessive tryptophan, estrogen, and polyunsaturated fats contribute significantly, maybe decisively, to the degenerative changes that occur in aging. Experiments have separately shown that reducing dietary tryptophan or unsaturated fats can extend the healthy lifespan, and several antiestrogenic interventions (removal of the pituitary, or supplementing with progesterone) can slow age-related changes and delay degenerative diseases.” -Ray Peat
“The expensive tender cuts of meat contain excessive amounts of cysteine and tryptophan, but bone broth (gelatin) and the tougher cuts of meat contain more gelatin, which lacks those amino acids. Many fruits are deficient in tryptophan, yet have very significant quantities of the other amino acids. They also contain some of the “carbon skeleton” (keto-acid) equivalents of the essential amino acids, which can be converted to protein in the body.” -Ray Peat
“The expensive tender cuts of meat contain excessive amounts of cysteine and tryptophan, but bone broth (gelatin) and the tougher cuts of meat contain more gelatin, which lacks those amino acids. Many fruits are deficient in tryptophan, yet have very significant quantities of the other amino acids. They also contain some of the “carbon skeleton” (keto-acid) equivalents of the essential amino acids, which can be converted to protein in the body.” -Ray Peat
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