Chronic Insomnia - High Saliva Cortisol

[Jerry B]

I am new here. I have had chronic insomnia for over 11 years. Before it got bad, I used benadryl to get a good night sleep. I also used melatonin. After a while, neither of these worked at all. I saw a few doctors and ended up on the anti-psychotic medication Zyprexa. It helped me sleep, but I suffered from the side effect of weight gain and had to go off of it after about 4 or 5 years. I started another similar medication Saphris. This helped some with sleep, but not as good as Zyprexa. I added benadryl and I slept good again for about 4 years. At the end of that time, I started having insomnia again. I am now taking Trazodone (which helped for a short time, but doesn't anymore) Lunesta 6mg and Saphris 10mg. I discovered about 1.5 years ago that high cortisol can cause sleep issues. I did a saliva test (several since the first one) and my cortisol is normal in the morning and high the rest of the time. A naturopathic doctor recommended Adrene-vive and Cortisol manager to lower cortisol, but it has had no effect. From reading in here, I have started Glycine. It has helped a little, but without Lunesta, I wake up feeling like I did not sleep much at all. To make things even more difficult, I build up tolerance to Lunesta very quickly. I use it for 3 or 4 nights and then have to take a night off. Does anyone have any advice?

 

[Tenacity]

What's your diet like? Any blood sugar issues?

If you suspect cortisol to be the problem then doing all of the things that decrease or make you less susceptible to cortisol (increasing fruit consumption, keeping blood sugar levels stable, decreasing PUFA consumption, keeping serotonin low, minimising life stress) will help.

 

[jyb]

I had similar issues but I'm now sleeping decently most nights and without these medications. I have found the following helpful in the past (in no particular order): cascara (before bed), pregnenolone and progesterone, gelatin (but worth reading more about other amino acids like theanine too), anti-serotonin drugs such as tianeptine and cyproheptadine (although cypro can knock you out effectively, it is down my list due to the side effects and it won't last forever), powerful lights,... I can often succeed without any of these just with a well planned diet, though mine is quite different from the typical one on this forum. Through trial and error I have also learnt to avoid certain habits and foods very strictly, despite them causing zero sleep issues for most people. Note, the timing of these supplements or of different foods during the day is important. As surprising as it may sound, these solutions and diet can be more helpful than the pharma solutions like Lunesta which only work short term and may not leave you feeling refreshed. Good luck.

 

[Jerry B]

My diet is not the best, I'm not a big fan of fruits and veggies. I'm a meat and potatoes type of person. I don't eat a lot of sweets, but some are in my diet. AFAIK, I don't have sugar issues. I am not diabetic or anything. I had to Google PUFA. My wife cooks with olive oil, and from what I read, that is good. My job can be stressful, but what job isn't that way?

 

[biggirlkisss]

have you tried sleeping with the light on bright lights in your ceiling.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

I had similar issues but I'm now sleeping decently most nights and without these medications. I have found the following helpful in the past (in no particular order): cascara (before bed), pregnenolone and progesterone, gelatin (but worth reading more about other amino acids like theanine too), anti-serotonin drugs such as tianeptine and cyproheptadine (although cypro can knock you out effectively, it is down my list due to the side effects and it won't last forever), powerful lights,... I can often succeed without any of these just with a well planned diet, though mine is quite different from the typical one on this forum. Through trial and error I have also learnt to avoid certain habits and foods very strictly, despite them causing zero sleep issues for most people. Note, the timing of these supplements or of different foods during the day is important. As surprising as it may sound, these solutions and diet can be more helpful than the pharma solutions like Lunesta which only work short term and may not leave you feeling refreshed. Good luck.

I know this thread is older, but wondered what your diet looks like? I have cortisol issues and insomnia. I am hoping to resolve them. I am taking Armour for thyroid issues, have for decades. The cortisol problems crept up in the last year, insomnia over the past few months.

Thanks!

 

[jyb]

I know this thread is older, but wondered what your diet looks like? I have cortisol issues and insomnia. I am hoping to resolve them. I am taking Armour for thyroid issues, have for decades. The cortisol problems crept up in the last year, insomnia over the past few months.

Thanks!

Cream, butter, cheese, potatoes, beef, lamb, shrimp,... So high in fat and dairy, some starch according to hunger, and I don't eat much sugar nor fruit juice. No coffee. I eat 2 or 3 meals a day, feel satisfied in terms of hunger - I never snack and don't need to. If you are from California you may find this diet unusual and struggle to find the ingredients (especially the fat and dairy) - it is much more European than American.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

Cream, butter, cheese, potatoes, beef, lamb, shrimp,... So high in fat and dairy, some starch according to hunger, and I don't eat much sugar nor fruit juice. No coffee. I eat 2 or 3 meals a day, feel satisfied in terms of hunger - I never snack and don't need to. If you are from California you may find this diet unusual and struggle to find the ingredients (especially the fat and dairy) - it is much more European than American.

Do you buy grass fed/pastured meat and dairy? Those things definitely pricey where I live. Much of what o have read of Peat's work is more sugar and fruit, not less..though I know it is also 'guidelines' and self experimentation. I get frustrated because it is hard to know what to eat coming from a mostly low carb and insulin resistant background. I just lost over 50 pounds and really don't want to gain again while trying to heal these issues.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Hi,

Have been a long term sufferer of Chronic Insomnia to the point of taking so many Benzos I was losing memory and had to quit my job. Finding Ray Peat was a huge step in realising that taking drugs to sleep instead of using food and life to produce optimum biochemistry that allows sleep is dumb. I have tried many "supplements" that can help in a pinch but the main thing is that your cortisol is fkucked up because of lifestyle/environment/diet and no supplement I've found helps that.

Doing all those annoying things like learning to be mindful, meditating, yoga, having restful holidays and finding contentment etc are the best options.

Learning that sleep is an energetic process (you're unconscious but your body is busy!) is step 1: you need to have a heralthy metabolism and liver to support your body to fall asleep and through the night.

Adjusting your biochemistry with some handy foods and low risk meds are described throughout this thread, things like calcium and magnesium, sugar and salt, saturated fat - and aspirin and cyproheptadine as well.

Learning about endotoxin creating stress in your body as well is important. Some people find they sleep much better supressing endotoxin, with charcoal, horseradish, carrot salad or low dose antibiotics.

I have in an emergency found phosphatydilsterine handy when I'm in an uncontrollable stressful time.

I hope you find relief, I did :) There is a lot to learn!