Chronic Stress And Anxiety

[docall18]

Nothing works nearly as good for me as P5P B6, for the symptoms you are describing.

 

[Greg says]

Nothing works nearly as good for me as P5P B6, for the symptoms you are describing.

yes because this is high adrenaline state and P5P reduces adrenaline. Sometimes when I take it is makes me depressed, due to the lowering of stress hormones which can make you feel good.

 

[Greg says]

Very interesting video.
Actually, what you've said there, it seems that you were also describing me.

"You are always in survival mode, hence keyed up, ready for action, flight/fight/fawn/freeze mode, general anxiety."

For example, the simple fact I am easily scared with a simple "buh!" or also when a stress situation arrives, I feel my heart starting to beat like crazy and I even find myself being aggressive and trembling are also related, right?

Man, I don't know what to say sometimes...
It is completely different thinking about this now, because I used to think "Well, this is how I am. I am a looser and a ***** boy." and to understand it is a physiological response...

One symptom of CPTSD is the '*inner critic' and 'toxic shame'.."Well, this is how I am. I am a looser and a ***** boy."

You need to start identifying and challenging this voice. Eventually disarming this hyjacking. Look out for
All or nothing thinking…Unfair/Devaluing Comparisons…Catastrophising…Negative focus… Entrapment...Rage...Hypervigilant ... Learned helplessness/ hopelessness... Numbed emotions shut down, have an inappropriate response to threat....the act of intimacy triggering emotional flashbacks (because of the intimacy between you and your father).

Over time the inner critic comes to assume all people are dangerous triggering a trauma response.

This is how it is for me, maybe you can relate to this vicious cycle… can’t see options…no hope…depression… inner critic winning… thought process collapses… can’t think a positive thought to begin a thread…future castrophising… hopelessness. You get stuck in the survival/lizard/amygdala part of the brain which keeps you stuck in the past, and is all about survival. It makes it hard to get any traction in life and move forward.

 

[Peatish Ninja]

it is not about his past, he became crazy since he had fight with all of his family member.my mother told me when I was 15-16 months he hited so hard at my back that she thought I will never be able to walk.

Why did he have a fight with his family? Why did it make him crazy?

 

[Aidin91]

Sounds like Complex PTSD to me. Disrupted HPA axis. You are always in survival mode, hence keyed up, ready for action, flight/fight/fawn/freeze mode, general anxiety. *Like a possession. There is a plethora of Peat's ideas to regulate the stress response. I've posted lots of info on trauma as I am a 'survivor' as well. Recently Haidut's Ritanserin has helped me. Niacinamide does nothing for me, glycine does help. Tianeptine is a great tool. Minimizing endotoxin is important.

*This psychologist has cleared many thing up for me..

are these drug lowers CRF ? what do u mean by stress response?

 

[Greg says]

Pete Walker, M.A. Psychotherapy

The bodies of traumatised people portray "snapshots" of their unsuccessful attempts to defend themselves in the face of threat and injury. Trauma is a highly activated incomplete biological response to threat, frozen in time. For example, when we prepare to fight or to flee, muscles throughout our entire body are tensed in specific patterns of high energy readiness. When we are unable to complete the appropriate actions, we fail to discharge the tremendous energy generated by our survival preparations. This energy becomes fixed in specific patterns of neuromuscular readiness. The person then stays in a state of acute and then chronic arousal and dysfunction in the central nervous system. Traumatised people are not suffering from a disease in the normal sense of the word- they have become stuck in an aroused state. It is difficult if not impossible to function normally under these circumstances.

Allocations of resources

The brain is fed from the bottom to the top and from the back to the front. Fuelled by oxygen and glucose from food. If the lizard and the monkey are getting all the fuel the human gets starved. It cannot think about the future.

There is an inability to get any traction.

It is as if a part of your brain is missing. You cannot interact with the world in a totally conscious state. You are on constant alert, ready for action, a hyper-vigilant state; an incessant, on-guard scanning of both the real environment and, most especially, the imagined upcoming environment. How can somebody move forward when they are continually experiencing emotional flashbacks and tumbling back in time. Thinking becomes like a car stuck in mud. The will to move forward is there but the harder you try the more you become stuck. This way of thinking creates further hopelessness and helplessness because you have tried many times to move forward but now you “know” it is useless. Not forward moving or assertive. The ability to move forward has been damaged.

The way the brain should function has become unbalanced in victims of trauma. Instead of operating out of the human pre-frontal cortex, trauma victims tend to use the the reptilian or reactive part of the brain more without having the normal connection with the rational part of the brain. This is due to our brain’s effort to increase of chances of survival. This part of the brain is about survival not thriving.

Overtime with this use the hippocampus shrinks and atrophies.

'Stress early in life can impair learning, cause aggressive or compulsive behaviour, learned helplessness, shyness, alcoholism, and other problems.' - Ray Peat


Yes, Tianeptine. It may help regenerate neuroplasticity.
Effects of repeated tianeptine treatment on CRF mRNA expression in non-stressed and chronic mild stress-exposed rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Tianeptine ( Stablon )

 

[Ukall]

Pete Walker, M.A. Psychotherapy

The bodies of traumatised people portray "snapshots" of their unsuccessful attempts to defend themselves in the face of threat and injury. Trauma is a highly activated incomplete biological response to threat, frozen in time. For example, when we prepare to fight or to flee, muscles throughout our entire body are tensed in specific patterns of high energy readiness. When we are unable to complete the appropriate actions, we fail to discharge the tremendous energy generated by our survival preparations. This energy becomes fixed in specific patterns of neuromuscular readiness. The person then stays in a state of acute and then chronic arousal and dysfunction in the central nervous system. Traumatised people are not suffering from a disease in the normal sense of the word- they have become stuck in an aroused state. It is difficult if not impossible to function normally under these circumstances.

View attachment 3275

Allocations of resources

The brain is fed from the bottom to the top and from the back to the front. Fuelled by oxygen and glucose from food. If the lizard and the monkey are getting all the fuel the human gets starved. It cannot think about the future.

There is an inability to get any traction.

It is as if a part of your brain is missing. You cannot interact with the world in a totally conscious state. You are on constant alert, ready for action, a hyper-vigilant state; an incessant, on-guard scanning of both the real environment and, most especially, the imagined upcoming environment. How can somebody move forward when they are continually experiencing emotional flashbacks and tumbling back in time. Thinking becomes like a car stuck in mud. The will to move forward is there but the harder you try the more you become stuck. This way of thinking creates further hopelessness and helplessness because you have tried many times to move forward but now you “know” it is useless. Not forward moving or assertive. The ability to move forward has been damaged.

The way the brain should function has become unbalanced in victims of trauma. Instead of operating out of the human pre-frontal cortex, trauma victims tend to use the the reptilian or reactive part of the brain more without having the normal connection with the rational part of the brain. This is due to our brain’s effort to increase of chances of survival. This part of the brain is about survival not thriving.

Overtime with this use the hippocampus shrinks and atrophies.

'Stress early in life can impair learning, cause aggressive or compulsive behaviour, learned helplessness, shyness, alcoholism, and other problems.' - Ray Peat


Yes, Tianeptine. It may help regenerate neuroplasticity.
Effects of repeated tianeptine treatment on CRF mRNA expression in non-stressed and chronic mild stress-exposed rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Tianeptine ( Stablon )

Man... I don't know what to say....
I am on the phone atm and I will not have access to a PC for a week, so I just want to ask you a thing right now: did starting Peating help you out? (talking about foods only and no supplements)
Unfortunately, trying to solve my problems, my first approach was doing IF, lol... As you can probably imagine, it has probably worsened my problems. But even doing something different from the mainstream society, stresses me out immediately. For example, I did a raw food diet and leading with people around me only caused more anxiety to me.
Now I don't know if a Peat inspired diet is going to give more or less stress... That's why I want to hear your answer.

 

[Greg says]

Man... I don't know what to say....
I am on the phone atm and I will not have access to a PC for a week, so I just want to ask you a thing right now: did starting Peating help you out? (talking about foods only and no supplements)
Unfortunately, trying to solve my problems, my first approach was doing IF, lol... As you can probably imagine, it has probably worsened my problems. But even doing something different from the mainstream society, stresses me out immediately. For example, I did a raw food diet and leading with people around me only caused more anxiety to me.
Now I don't know if a Peat inspired diet is going to give more or less stress... That's why I want to hear your answer.

In a word, yes. RP's work (just food) has been a god send. I have come from a vegetarian, vegan, raw, paleo, fasting, 'detoxing' background, so I was just fuelling the stress response. Just consuming enough calories is a huge factor.

All humans have a degree of trauma. Birth is traumatising.

Understanding the psychology of trauma + Restoring biological balance (diet, life style factors; sleep, movement, light, sociability) = Recovery.

Sufferers of PTSD/Trauma/Stress have altered brains.

Question: You've mentioned that the cortisol damages the brain once a trauma has happened. Is that reversible over time, if someone is following a protocol that would support their greater health?

Ray Peat: Yeah. It's probably just the same as the following anorexia, that they've seen that young women can have great and quick regrowth of the mass of the brain substance just by stopping the stress and starting to eat well. And I think that would happen with old people who are partially demented by the stress of very serious surgery.

'Health problems contain both a psychological and physiological element. If you don't get the nutrition part right then channelling the psychological emotions becomes a monumental task.’

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

Meditation. Lots. It costs zero dollars.

 

[RePeatRePeat]

I am going to be a meanie here. All the suggestions from the forum members are kind and beautiful, but the OP sounds "off" to me - as though he has never read anything on this forum or by Peat, despite saying he has. Could he be a troll?

 

[tara]

I am 182 cm and I weigh about 75-80 kg.I eat 3 meals every day and I don't eat a lot.normaly I wake up at 8 A.m and I sleep around 12.

I suggest taking a good look at your diet first - not pint in going after a bunch of supplements if the/a key issue is malnutrition (esp. if many supplements are not available to you).
Can you estimate how much you are actually eating each day? And how much protein? Cronometer dot com is one way to do it.
Normal amounts of food for a young man your size would be more than 3500 cals (not directly from Peat - see Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia). At least 100g protein, maybe more. I wonder if you are getting enough? If not, this could be contributing to your chronic stress, along with the other things in your life. The body experiences energy deficit as stress. Fuel is part of that.

Also good to check and see whether you are getting much:
magnesium
calcium
b-vitamins
all the other micronutrients.
I would only recommend avoiding dairy if you actually get problematic symptoms from it. If it agrees with you, it can be a good food.

What is your sugar intake like? Charlie said a profound and simple thing on this forum once - you need energy to relax. Making small diet changes may help a lot. For example, can you buy gelatinous cuts of meat where you are, like ox tail? Lowering your intake of muscle meat and increasing cheese and milk consumption may help lower stress. Switching from wholegrains to simple starches might help, along with increasing your consumption of fruits. Do you eat much fruit currently? Do you eat much salt? Be careful not to avoid salt, because eating salt will help your stress and blood pressure.

+1

Just consuming enough calories is a huge factor.

+1
Lots of good stuff about trauma, too.
Getting out of current danger, if there is any, would be a useful step. Then you get to notice that you are safe.

Meditation. Lots. It costs zero dollars.

And/or attending to breathing. Is your breathing typically relaxed, nasal, diaphragmatic, including at night? Or tense, oral, thoracic? This can make a big difference to stress/relaxation state, and can be retrained. For me, a combination of improved nutrition and improved breathing have been helpful in getting me out of chronically stressed states.

Have you had a go at assessing your base metabolism? Body temps, heart-rate?

 

[Aidin91]

I lived in stress and raised in stress, so I don't know what is life without stress. I remember from first time that I learned to measure my heart beat was around 110.
The body is in normal range, I think two years ago I measured my body temp and nothing weird came out, it was in range and without abnormality.

 

[scarlettsmum]

In a word, yes. RP's work (just food) has been a god send. I have come from a vegetarian, vegan, raw, paleo, fasting, 'detoxing' background, so I was just fuelling the stress response. Just consuming enough calories is a huge factor.

All humans have a degree of trauma. Birth is traumatising.

Understanding the psychology of trauma + Restoring biological balance (diet, life style factors; sleep, movement, light, sociability) = Recovery.

Sufferers of PTSD/Trauma/Stress have altered brains.

Question: You've mentioned that the cortisol damages the brain once a trauma has happened. Is that reversible over time, if someone is following a protocol that would support their greater health?

Ray Peat: Yeah. It's probably just the same as the following anorexia, that they've seen that young women can have great and quick regrowth of the mass of the brain substance just by stopping the stress and starting to eat well. And I think that would happen with old people who are partially demented by the stress of very serious surgery.

'Health problems contain both a psychological and physiological element. If you don't get the nutrition part right then channelling the psychological emotions becomes a monumental task.’

I like your posts relating to anxiety, Greg. Please keep them coming, I'm also a survival and am learning how to live in peace, avoiding triggering the stress hormones. I too get very panicky just watching a scary film or get silly fears all the time that make me a little bit ocd. I struggle to make friends because why would anybody like me? Etc. At least I'm now at a stage where I recognise this voice and challenge it. I have a huge problem with intimacy because of the trauma. My homeopath gave me a remedy canine milk which is for people that are disgusted with themselves and full of shame which helped to a point. I tried ritanserin but eventually it was triggering my anxiety within 5 mins of administration. I'm now back on cypro but don't like the morning tiredness. One strange thing relating to intimacy came up when on ritanserin, as a matter of fact ritanserin changed me a little bit, so weird. And lots of uncomfortable thoughts, emotions came up that I usually ignore on daily basis. I don't think I was ready to deal with them and that scared me so I stopped ritanserin. So that and the anxiety put me off. I just felt as though the healing may have been going faster that I wanted to. Anyone else experienced this on ritanserin? It could be purely coincidental as I have no proof that it was indeed caused by ritanserin, but it did happen at the same time and I felt as a different person, almost invincible when on it. I hope cypro will help with my ptsd over time.

 

[tara]

The body is in normal range, I think two years ago I measured my body temp and nothing weird came out, it was in range and without abnormality.

I'm not sure what you mean by normal range, but drs sometimes say things are normal when they are a way from optimal. I've had a dr tell me once, when my temp was under 35C, that it was nothing to worry about (I was freezing, I really needed warming up - I suspect it may have been a part of mild shock). The standard range for TSH that drs usually look at is consistent with quite low thyroid function for some people. Do you have numbers from then? Can you measure body temps again now? Ideally before rising can be interesting, 1/2 hour after breakfast, early afternoon for a few days. But any of them is better than nothing.

Approximate current calories?

 

[Aidin91]

I'm not sure what you mean by normal range, but drs sometimes say things are normal when they are a way from optimal. I've had a dr tell me once, when my temp was under 35C, that it was nothing to worry about (I was freezing, I really needed warming up - I suspect it may have been a part of mild shock). The standard range for TSH that drs usually look at is consistent with quite low thyroid function for some people. Do you have numbers from then? Can you measure body temps again now? Ideally before rising can be interesting, 1/2 hour after breakfast, early afternoon for a few days. But any of them is better than nothing.

Approximate current calories?

I measured my body temps several times and nothing abnormal came out, also I myself think that my feet freezing, but when my mother touches my feet to know the temperature, she says it is normal, but I feel numbness in my feet due to the freezing.
I don't know number for the calories, but my diet is healthier than anyone I know which is full with carbs,calories, proteins and etc.

 

[tara]

I measured my body temps several times and nothing abnormal came out,

What were the numbers?

also I myself think that my feet freezing, but when my mother touches my feet to know the temperature, she says it is normal, but I feel numbness in my feet due to the freezing.

I wold be inclined to think that if they feel cold to you, there is something amiss. Maybe your mother has cold hands too, so it feels normal to her?
High adrenal can tend to restrict circulation to the periphery, contributing to cold hands and feet. Some people find that Buteyko method exercises markedly warm their extremities. Could be worth trying some related breathing exercises and seeing if they have that effect or you.

I don't know number for the calories, but my diet is healthier than anyone I know which is full with carbs,calories, proteins and etc.

Can you plug a typical day's food into cronometer.com and see what the numbers say? (Don't believe it's calorie recommendations - they are often too low.)

 

[Ahanu]

Additionally i would look into Les Fehmis open Focus Training. Here are 4 mp3 of it:Independent publisher of books for enlightened living. Books and audio on Buddhism, Personal Growth, Psychology, Health, Yoga, Creativity, and much more.

It will help you coming out of the fight and flight mode.

And from my own experience i would go very heavy on salt and sugar

 

[Simonsays]

This forum can give a lot of good advice on diet for stress.

But if you have suffered a traumatic childhood like you did, you are probably suffering a form of PTSD and no doubt "toxic shame" etc, as Greg has stated.

Your base cortisol levels are probably higher or lower than normal which creates all sorts of problems long term.

You would benefit greatly from long term counselling/therapy. It is important to get a therapist that is empathetic to your needs and you can form a trusting relationship with.

Good luck . You are 24 so you have the chance to repair the damage done to you.

 

[paymanz]

Other members most probably mentioned these;

Sugar(specially sucrose) has anti stress effect.from fruits or milk(lactose free if your lactose intolerant),even some table sugar!

Salt( to taste)

Taurine ( you can get it from energy drinks also!)

Glycine( from gelatine powder or bone broth)

Calcium


Drugs, cypro as you mentioned it yourself.and also low dose bromocriptine and clonidine may help, if you haven't tried them already.

And don't expect vitamins to respond fast, be patient when using them.
Having 1-2 servings of liver a week is good because of vitamin A , which is important.

 

[paymanz]

actually the main problem is my country and since we don't have access to world banks we could not buy anything from internet.
we have green tea capsules , is it different than L-theanine?
by the way I really appreciat your suggestions and help

There is few studies showing brewing tea for few minutes extracts most of the theanine from tea leaves, black or green doeasnt matters. The capsules may irritate your digestive system, its better to drink brewed tea than caps.