COLLAGEN CONFUSION

[Kray]

I didn’t see that post of yours, sorry about that! To your question, no I don’t use the collagen powder, except on rare occasion, when I don’t have a homemade bone broth on hand or pork rinds or chicken wings. I just don’t prefer the collagen for heavy metal reason. I don’t even use the store bought bone broths for the same, plus there there is no gelatinization in either. Gelatin would be my first pic of those three. I noticed that when I did use collagen powder on a regular basis I was feeling those heavy metals symptoms, I am familiar with, with numbness in my extremities when I was also having vitamin C near it.

How interesting your awareness re: heavy metals. Never even considered that, thinking it was pretty much the same as gelatin (again, per Peat!). However, when I re-read the thread again I saw the post someone made about the fluoride content of collagen, which I had never heard of nor seen before. Think I'll change direction now and lean toward gelatin. I've been buying beef bones with my meat orders, so I will continue with that. Gone are the days when the butcher's standard fare included cuts, mostly with bone-in ...

Thanks so much for your quick response and feedback-- always so helpful!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

How interesting your awareness re: heavy metals. Never even considered that, thinking it was pretty much the same as gelatin (again, per Peat!). However, when I re-read the thread again I saw the post someone made about the fluoride content of collagen, which I had never heard of nor seen before. Think I'll change direction now and lean toward gelatin. I've been buying beef bones with my meat orders, so I will continue with that. Gone are the days when the butcher's standard fare included cuts, mostly with bone-in ...

Thanks so much for your quick response and feedback-- always so helpful!

RP warns against making bone broths with bones, because heavy metals are stored in the bones. He also says to cook bone broths only a matter of a few hours to keep the histamine content down too. So with those two pieces of advice it is impossible to get a good thick gelatinous bone broth using bones, so I am using ones with as much cartilage as I can find. The best available to me are beef knuckle bones. Just one roasted in the oven before I boil it, aligning with the leftover previous bone I had boiled and froze because they still had cartilage on them makes a really cheap pot of bone broth for me, for less than $7.

 

[Cow]

I recently tried collagen and it made me depressed. I also get that reaction from glycine. It was also rough on my gut too, so I stopped. I found it nasty smelling and tasting, and I feel like if the body is repulsed by something, then it is trying to tell you something.

Can I ask a question @Rinse & rePeat , I've made chicken wing bone broth 3 times now and every time there is very little fat to remove from the top. I used too much water the first two times and got broth instead of gelatin, which is fine, but I gave it away, cuz all the fat was emulsified in the broth which was very oily. This last time I finally got super bouncy gelatin! Hurrah! But still just a very thin layer of fat at the top, and the gelatin is very cloudy and seems somewhat oily. Does that mean too much PUFA still in the gelatin? I am eating it anyway, cuz I am desperately trying to help a stress injury in my thumb/wrist. (Also, it is delicious!) How can I ensure the fat layer forms at the top? I let it cool before I fridged it, so alls I can think is maybe I simmered it with too high heat. I simmered 2.5 hours on low but occassionally it would start to boil and I'd have to turn it down. I saved and froze the boiled wings so I can thaw and fry up a couple in coconut oil to have with meals.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I recently tried collagen and it made me depressed. I also get that reaction from glycine. It was also rough on my gut too, so I stopped. I found it nasty smelling and tasting, and I feel like if the body is repulsed by something, then it is trying to tell you something.

Can I ask a question @Rinse & rePeat , I've made chicken wing bone broth 3 times now and every time there is very little fat to remove from the top. I used too much water the first two times and got broth instead of gelatin, which is fine, but I gave it away, cuz all the fat was emulsified in the broth which was very oily. This last time I finally got super bouncy gelatin! Hurrah! But still just a very thin layer of fat at the top, and the gelatin is very cloudy and seems somewhat oily. Does that mean too much PUFA still in the gelatin? I am eating it anyway, cuz I am desperately trying to help a stress injury in my thumb/wrist. (Also, it is delicious!) How can I ensure the fat layer forms at the top? I let it cool before I fridged it, so alls I can think is maybe I simmered it with too high heat. I simmered 2.5 hours on low but occassionally it would start to boil and I'd have to turn it down. I saved and froze the boiled wings so I can thaw and fry up a couple in coconut oil to have with meals.

Are you boiling the wings two and a half hours?

 

[Cow]

yes

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

yes

My preferred method when I make my wings is to boil leftover bones first, only a handful is necessary, for about an hour and a half and then add the chicken wings, and boil them for about 23 minutes. I then take the wings out of the broth right away and let it the broth cool for a few minutes and then strain it through a sieve into a clean bowl AND THEN let it cool. Then I cover the broth and chill it, and finally skin the fat that collected at the top. I eat the wings immediately for lunch. I pull the meat off of the wings with my fingers or a fork rather than eat the wing meat with my mouth so I have bones to use that I freeze for the next batch.

 

[Chophouse360]

@Rinse & rePeat so gelatin is safe?

 

[Cow]

Thanks @Rinse & rePeat , I guess I am simmering too long. I went longer cuz it wasn't gelling up, but that was probably a too much water problem. I'll let you know how the next batch goes!
PS. Loving my peanut flour! Made sprouted oat & spelt flour maple peanut cookies!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks @Rinse & rePeat , I guess I am simmering too long. I went longer cuz it wasn't gelling up, but that was probably a too much water problem. I'll let you know how the next batch goes!
PS. Loving my peanut flour! Made sprouted oat & spelt flour maple peanut cookies!

I love hearing this Cow! I made some peanut butter cups, with that peanut powder, for my friend a couple of weeks ago. Did you see my recipe for my “Peaty” grain-free peanut butter cookies?

 

[Kray]

RP warns against making bone broths with bones, because heavy metals are stored in the bones. He also says to cook bone broths only a matter of a few hours to keep the histamine content down too. So with those two pieces of advice it is impossible to get a good thick gelatinous bone broth using bones, so I am using ones with as much cartilage as I can find. The best available to me are beef knuckle bones. Just one roasted in the oven before I boil it, aligning with the leftover previous bone I had boiled and froze because they still had cartilage on them makes a really cheap pot of bone broth for me, for less than $7.

Yes, I remember that fact about bones and cooking time. I learned from a sous chef long ago- she roasted turkey bones in the oven 'til simmering golden brown, or chicken bones on stovetop, then threw the bones into a pot of cold water and whatever vegetables for base, slowly heating to boil, then simmered. The temp difference draws out robust flavor from the just-cooked bones. I have never tasted soup as good as hers! To minimize the leaching of heavy metals, it seems reasonable from the time the bones are added to the cold water through simmering, a total of 2 hours. Would you agree?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Yes, I remember that fact about bones and cooking time. I learned from a sous chef long ago- she roasted turkey bones in the oven 'til simmering golden brown, or chicken bones on stovetop, then threw the bones into a pot of cold water and whatever vegetables for base, slowing heating to boil, then simmered. The temp difference draws out robust flavor from the just-cooked bones. I have never tasted soup as good as hers! To minimize the leaching of heavy metals, it seems reasonable from the time the bones are added to the cold water through simmering, a total of 2 hours. Would you agree?

I do my chicken broth now in about two hours, on high heat though, otherwise it would not gelatinize, and I don’t add vegetables. My beef one I can get pretty bouncy in 4 to 5 hours as long as I have cartilage bones.

 

[Kray]

I do my chicken broth now in about two hours, on high heat though, otherwise it would not gelatinize, and I don’t add vegetables. My beef one I can get pretty bouncy in 4 to 5 hours as long as I have cartilage bones.

Agree on both points! I'll probably omit veggies (that was pre-Peat) too.
How do you cook & season your wings for eating? Do you try for pasture-raised, organic?
For the beef, you don't think 4-5 hrs too long, and are you boiling them? And do you go for grassfed beef for your bones?
Your PB cookies-and cups- look scrumptious- can you link recipes?
Thanks again

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Agree on both points! I'll probably omit veggies (that was pre-Peat) too.
How do you cook & season your wings for eating? Do you try for pasture-raised, organic?
For the beef, you don't think 4-5 hrs too long, and are you boiling them? And do you go for grassfed beef for your bones?

For my wings nowadays, I put butter down on an aluminum foil lined baking sheet, which I will surely get scolded about, and then I put the boiled wings skin-side down on the butter, I salt them and broil for about 8 minutes, tgem turn them over, salt again and broil anther seven or so minutes until lightly golden and crispy.

I do but only grass-fed meat, bones and dairy my. I send for my meats because they are flash frozen, better quality, get no hormones, it is cheaper and I get free shipping. So yes I do get free range chicken. I don’t know how long meat has been sitting in the refrigerator case waiting to be bought in grocery stores to feel comfortable buying mine there. I had terrible histamine issues many years ago, so I am careful about my food being fresh now.

As for the beef broth being too long boiling it 4 to 5 hours, it isn’t for me. Compared to collagen powder and store bought bone broth being cooked for 24+ hours my short cooking time is not a worry for me. I just can’t get bones with more cartilage to get it gelatinous with a shorter cooking time..

 

[Kray]

For my wings nowadays, I put butter down on an aluminum foil lined baking sheet, which I will surely get scolded about, and then I put the boiled wings skin-side down on the butter, I salt them and broil for about 8 minutes, tgem turn them over, salt again and broil anther seven or so minutes until lightly golden and crispy.

I do but only grass-fed meat, bones and dairy my. I send for my meats because they are flash frozen, better quality, get no hormones, it is cheaper and I get free shipping. So yes I do get free range chicken. I don’t know how long meat has been sitting in the refrigerator case waiting to be bought in grocery stores to feel comfortable buying mine there. I had terrible histamine issues many years ago, so I am careful about my food being fresh now.

As for the beef broth being too long boiling it 4 to 5 hours, it isn’t for me. Compared to collagen powder and store bought bone broth being cooked for 24+ hours my short cooking time is not a worry for me. I just can’t get bones with more cartilage to get it gelatinous with a shorter cooking time..

Thank you- all good to note. Especially relative comparison of 4-5 hrs vs 24 (always more is better, right?). ha

Found this link- What you don't know about gelatin may hurt you: 6 things you need to know! | Butter Nutrition
I don't know if I can be bothered with all these factors, but I guess if you have a bad reaction, it might be helpful to know. :)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thank you- all good to note. Especially relative comparison of 4-5 hrs vs 24 (always more is better, right?). ha

Found this link- What you don't know about gelatin may hurt you: 6 things you need to know! | Butter Nutrition
I don't know if I can be bothered with all these factors, but I guess if you have a bad reaction, it might be helpful to know. :)

I have heard all of these in the thread that you linked except this one below, which doesn’t seem to be optimal advice, since gelatin sources are better paired with meats. The rest of it’s advice is a little tricky, which is another reason a got ol’ pot of soup seems safest….

“EAT GELATIN OR COLLAGEN WITH CARBOHYDRATES AND FAT FOR THE BEST DIGESTION.​

Since gelatin and collagen provide protein, it's important to eat it with carbohydrates and fats in order to stimulate strong digestive juices and allow the body the fuel to use the protein properly.”

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Your PB cookies-and cups- look scrumptious- can you link recipes?
Thanks again

Here is another recipe for you Kray, that I created for my wings, a Thai-style “Sate” peanut sauce. The recipe for it is in my Chicken Wing recipe thread, which I linked below for you, on the bottom of page 5. The peanut butter cups are in my Peaty Sweets thread close to the bottom of page 1

For the flourless peanut butter cookies, I just converted a recipe I have been making since I was ten years old, by making a batch of peanut butter with that peanut powder and refined coconut oil and following the recipe with that. Everyone though this new version with the good homemade peanut butter made lighter and better textured cookies. I liked having one in the evening for the magnesium and better sleep.

Gelatinous Low Histamine CHICKEN Bone Broth AND dinner in under 3 Hours (with photos)

I thought RP was not too keen on gelatin made from poultry parts, in that there was present some negative elements such as ammonium, as well as several others, though it's alot easier and quicker to make than from cow bones...

raypeatforum.com

“Peaty” Sweets, Sauces, Starches & Other Splurges

"Our instincts give us a few clues about our nutritional needs, such as thirst, the hunger for salt, the pleasantness of sweet things, and the unpleasantness of certain odors or very acrid or bitter tastes." -Ray Peat This post has all the "Peaty" extras, like the frosting on cake! Though...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Kray]

Here is another recipe for you Kray, that I created for my wings, a Thai-style “Sate” peanut sauce. The recipe for it is in my Chicken Wing recipe thread, which I linked below for you, on the bottom of page 5. The peanut butter cups are in my Peaty Sweets thread close to the bottom of page 1

For the flourless peanut butter cookies, I just converted a recipe I have been making since I was ten years old, by making a batch of peanut butter with that peanut powder and refined coconut oil and following the recipe with that. Everyone though this new version with the good homemade peanut butter made lighter and better textured cookies. I liked having one in the evening for the magnesium and better sleep.

View attachment 60383

Gelatinous Low Histamine CHICKEN Bone Broth AND dinner in under 3 Hours (with photos)

I thought RP was not too keen on gelatin made from poultry parts, in that there was present some negative elements such as ammonium, as well as several others, though it's alot easier and quicker to make than from cow bones...

raypeatforum.com

“Peaty” Sweets, Sauces, Starches & Other Splurges

"Our instincts give us a few clues about our nutritional needs, such as thirst, the hunger for salt, the pleasantness of sweet things, and the unpleasantness of certain odors or very acrid or bitter tastes." -Ray Peat This post has all the "Peaty" extras, like the frosting on cake! Though...

raypeatforum.com

STOP IT!
Thank you

 

[Cow]

@Rinse & rePeat , you need to open Peat's Cafe so we can all come and dine. Your recipes are amazing and while I have only minimal time right now, I do what I can, and your recipes have been inspiring me to start cooking and baking more. It has added a lot to my enjoyment of eating again, and I appreciate everything you share.

May I ask, where do you buy your chicken wings from?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

STOP IT!
Thank you

Ha! Ha! Ha! I know I am hurting you so good aren’t I? I can’t help myself!

 

[Chophouse360]

Ha! Ha! Ha! I know I am hurting you so good aren’t I? I can’t help myself!

So gelatin is fine?