Copper Toxicity Syndrome

[Derek]

post 111948

post 111945

post 111927 You're right.. I just think this can be main issue for people with health problems who follow Peat friendly food list... Beef is hard to digest, but chocolate or dried fruits etc.. So rich in copper..

Copper is not the only issue for people who follow a peat friendly list. Calcium is another issue. Beef is probably the easiest thing in the world for me to digest. How do you prepare it? What cuts of beef?

Cheap ground beef, just grilled on the pan.. For me it is definitely harder to digest protein source than chicken or turkey breast or whey isolate or even eggs..

Ground beef is the hardest for me to digest compared to other beef cuts. Also, depends on if you overcooked it. Have you tried a rare steak, or a slow cooked beef arm/pot roast?

 

[Derek]

post 111952

She got nauseous after the meal not after the taurine.

It can take hours to feel the effect. When I have taken taurine on an empty stomach it gave me nausea and insomnia for that day.

I guess the taurine could of caused a copper dump since copper comes out of the liver in the bile acids.

 

[InChristAlone]

I had only taken the taurine a few other times, the tonic water was the first time so I thought maybe it could be a stress response to quinine but I had so little of it.

 

[Giraffe]

YuraCZ most of the information from the websites and two-hour-long videos you link is incompatible with Ray Peat's views. This one for example:

post 105065 For people who don't have idea about this topic. Very interesting read..
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topi ... -the-mind/

If I believed this acupuncturist I would limit sugar and coffee (to not over-expend energy). I would wonder if I need to supplement tryptophan (because it's needed for serotonin production and not easily repleted with food). Any hypoglycemia I would blame on adrenal exhaustion (not enough cortisol).

Did you have copper and ceruloplasmin tested? Haidut mentioned you should have it tested together with iron, ferritin... You might want to read Peat's article Gelatin, stress, longevity and this one post 97667 of Haidut's posts.

 

[tara]

post 101573 as well as general metabolism (with simple things like vitamin A, K2, magnesium, B6) to set the conditions for the minor minerals to be used and deposited correctly.

I think Robbins recommends retinol, B6 and Mg too, to help with copper management and thereby general metabolism, in the video Yura linked.

 

[YuraCZ]

Good info..
http://www.holistichelp.net/blog/copper ... ed-levels/

 

[Luann]

Am adjusting diet to fit low-copper criteria (i.e. VERY reduced plant proteins). All of the symptoms seemed to match so it seemed like a good idea. The only problem is the "elimination syndrome" which has seemed to kick in today: bits and pieces of older health problems like back pain, cystitis and bladder discomfort (TMI much?).

Keep calcium quite high to counter-act the symptoms! There are articles online about how to get through your copper elimination; good luck : )

 

[supernature]

Morley definitely has a point, Iron-Copper metabolism, Zinc, Mg..., does he missing the estrogens connection?
Hes statement is Mg and Copper deficiencies are the reason for chronic diseases. As Mg leaves the body due stress, so and the bioavailability of Copper leaves with the Mg...


That is something to consider as well, esp if there is a Copper shortage or excess...

Taurine will really increase some metals being output into the bile. It can be helpful if you're using something to grab the metals...but this will definitely make yeast worse. Taurine will especially cause copper to be dumped into the bile in larger amounts.

 

[sladerunner69]

Then why does supplementing copper help imrpove my skin and move so much? A copper deficiency seems mroe likely in many cases and even peat recommeneds supplemental copper and copper pans for trace amounts. Low cAMP enzyme function can be restored through copper intake as well.

 

[Giraffe]

A copper deficiency seems mroe likely in many cases and even peat recommeneds supplemental copper

I've heard him recommend shellfish and liver as food sources for copper, and he talked about his experiments with topical copper solutions to restore color in eyebrows (one of it ended with a mole). He has a lot of advice on how to not lose your copper (e.g. don't stay in the dark for too many hours). I never heard him recommend supplementing copper.

and copper pans for trace amounts

Sure? Do you have a reference?

 

[sladerunner69]

I've heard him recommend shellfish and liver as food sources for copper, and he talked about his experiments with topical copper solutions to restore color in eyebrows (one of it ended with a mole). He has a lot of advice on how to not lose your copper (e.g. don't stay in the dark for too many hours). I never heard him recommend supplementing copper.


Sure? Do you have a reference?

Yes it's in one of the many articles of his I have read. I can try and find it if you'd like.

Copper from oysters and freshly harvested (by me) calf liver, definitely has an acute effect on the quality of my colalgen plasticity as well as my energy levels

 

[Giraffe]

Yes it's in one of the many articles of his I have read. I can try and find it if you'd like.

I checked the articles on his website. The only reference to copper pans I could find is this one:

"Obviously, certain proteins have higher than average affinity for copper, iron, and calcium. For example, egg-white's unusual behavior with copper can be seen if you make a meringue in a copper pan--the froth is unusually firm. My guess is that copper atoms bind the protein molecules into relatively elastic systems. In many systems, calcium forms the link between adhesive proteins."

In his book "Nutrition for Women" he mentioned copper poisoning caused by water that is contaminated (e.g. from plumbing or utentils) .

 

[HDD]

@Giraffe I thought I read that Peat used a copper pan in cooking. I think this thread is where I got it from but there are no quotes from Peat.
On iron, copper and phlebotomy

 

[Giraffe]

Thanks @HDD, interesting thread. :)

 

[supernature]

"In animals, copper supplementation can restore natural color to white hair, and in one experiment, it increased longevity. At present, there isn't enough knowledge about the safety of different ways of administering supplemental copper. It can be toxic, and it oxidizes other nutrients." - Generative Energy 1994., R.P.

"I cooked eggs in a copper pan, to increase my copper intake and to avoid iron absorbed from an iron pan." - Generative Energy, R.P.

Here how it goes according to nutrition data per (100gr):

Beef, cooked, pan-fried - Iron 6.2mg Copper 14.6mg
Beef, liver, cooked, braised - Iron 6.5mg Copper 14.3mg
Beef, liver, raw - Iron 5mg Copper 9.8mg

Lamb, liver, cooked, braised - Iron 8.3mg Copper 7.1mg
Lamb, liver, cooked, pan-fried - Iron 10.2mg, Copper 9.8mg
Lamb, liver, raw - Iron 7mg, Copper 7mg

Veal, liver, cooked, braised [calf liver] - Iron 5mg , Copper 15mg
Veal, liver, cooked, pan-fried [calf liver] - Iron 6mg, Copper 15mg
Veal, liver, raw [calf liver] - Iron 6.4mg, Copper 12mg

It seems the cooking process increases the Copper content in all 3 types of liver, and Iron content is higher in some, even though there is a reverse relation in 1 of the calfs liver.
How is that happening and does that same thing what Peat is mentioning in the 2nd quote, is it all dependent on the material of the pan in which the livers are cooked or is also dependent on the nature of the food in some way ?

 

[lampofred]

Then why does supplementing copper help imrpove my skin and move so much? A copper deficiency seems mroe likely in many cases and even peat recommeneds supplemental copper and copper pans for trace amounts. Low cAMP enzyme function can be restored through copper intake as well.

Old thread but Dr. Wilson writes that youthful-looking skin is indicative of a copper-toxic state but that the outside appearance isn't indicative of one's internal health.

 

[Elephanto]

I'd like to test coffee for copper content, I feel like it's a major source of copper in most people's life because when I've been in copper deficiency due to high zinc intake from supps, a big cup of coffee always seemed to bring me out of copper deficiency. Chocolate is another major source for those who eat it regularly. Supposedly copper plumbing in some cities contribute, that may be cases where you need to chelate copper with molybdenum.

Getting copper is important though. Cytochrome oxidase depends on it. You just need to worry about having a high zinc/copper ratio. Copper increases estrogen and the inflammatory cytokine il-6, estrogen increases copper absorption/retention. You can totally be low in estrogen and have the rda of copper or more every day though.

http://pubmedcentralcanada.ca/pmcc/articles/PMC4105953/

Contraceptives with estrogenic effects are known to elevate serum copper and ceruloplasmin levels [4, 5]. The underlying pathomechanism is not fully understood, but several authors propose an increase of ceruloplasmin as a direct effect of estrogen and, consequently, a rise of total copper content in the serum [4, 5]. Whatever the mechanism, the alteration of copper homeostasis is not listed in the drug information of oral contraceptives. However, in the last years, 3 cases with corneal deposition due to chronic intake of contraceptives have been reported, showing that changes in serum copper can be of clinical importance

Estrogenic substances in general will raise serum copper, make you retain more copper, and thus you will see the signs of copper excess on your body. If you treat estrogen first, copper becomes an ally.

 

[AyurvedaMGerson]

Copper and zinc share metalotionein binding sites, a protein whoe transport these minerals.

A lot sites in body zinc and copper replace each another. Like the Kayser-Fleishner rings.

Copper can acumulate, but Zimc cant.

Legumes, nuts, cocoa and beef liver have excess copper. These food have zinc too but zinc and copper compete for absorption.

Dairy have zinc but calcium compete with zinc. And if copper are leaving the body inside the Bile, calcium helps the re-aborption of copper, because calcium enhance copper absorption.

The only food who have high zinc, low copper and low calcium is Beef. And some vegetables like Broccoli and Cauliflower.

Molasses have high copper content, but white sugar doesnt.

Remember that whole grains like brown rice have high zinc but phytates bind zinc, but dont bind copper...

A diet of dairy, beef, white rice and white sugar, some brocolli and some vitamin c and magnesium can help to fix copper overload.

 

[LUH 3417]

Does anyone know if a copper dump can cause a panic attack? The other day I had taken taurine, things were going fine then I ate beef tacos with a bit of tonic water in OJ and had a panic attack with nausea and stuff that lasted for hours.

I have brown hair but it has reddish tints in it and I always suspected I had excess copper bc ive always been very moody. I started taking a b complex and lots of vitamin c everyday as well as magnesium at night. I have so much energy but have also been experiencing panic and anxiety. I’ve never known what a panic attack felt like until this week. Reading your post makes me wonder if I am dumping copper.

 

[Vinero]

So most people will benefit from eating beef or taking zinc, as well as limiting copper?