Depression And Fatigue

[johns74]

Let it be clear that I am not advising anyone to undergo such intervention. I haven't done anything like this myself either. I also agree you have to see an organism in its entity, but if such simple intervention turns out to be safe and effective and can help people in getting their lives back..? Imo the jury is still out and coming with such generalized thinking does not bring us anything further in understanding.

Saying that putting ***t in your **** is not a good idea isn't generalized thinking, it's a view about a very specific thing.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Saying that putting s*** in your **** is not a good idea isn't generalized thinking, it's a view about a very specific thing.

The arguments aren't by any means constructive and thoughts about bacteria are absolutely generalized.

 

[johns74]

Saying that putting s*** in your **** is not a good idea isn't generalized thinking, it's a view about a very specific thing.

The arguments aren't by any means constructive and thoughts about bacteria are absolutely generalized.

Trust your intuition and dare to think non-PhD approved thoughts is a very constructive message from my point of view.

 

[lindsay]

I don't trust garlic anymore, it gives me a worse headache than amoxicillin.

Have you tried organic garlic? Or pickled garlic? Pickled garlic is super mild and barely even tastes like garlic. The only reactions to garlic I've ever had is that it's a very powerful expectorant. Clears mucus very well.

There are, however, methods for it's proper use.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't trust garlic anymore, it gives me a worse headache than amoxicillin.

Have you tried organic garlic? Or pickled garlic? Pickled garlic is super mild and barely even tastes like garlic. The only reactions to garlic I've ever had is that it's a very powerful expectorant. Clears mucus very well.

There are, however, methods for it's proper use.

It was organic at least by law... don't think I can find pickled garlic. Sounds tasty though.

 

[lindsay]

It was organic at least by law... don't think I can find pickled garlic. Sounds tasty though.

I'm going to try to make it - will report back when I've done that. I tried some once, but felt the brand I bought used WAY too much salt. I figure, if I make it like I would dill pickles but then just leave out the cukes, it should come out pretty tasty :)

 

[Amazoniac]

Does a germless rat have dirty babies?

It's a great question and I'm just speculating: we acquire some from the environment but I think there some specific ones that are passed from the mother to the baby exclusively. This is the reason why I would consider a fecal transplant. The environment usually is not enough.

 

[Amazoniac]

I think Ray Peat's recommendation for eating a raw carrot often is based in part on the observation that germ-free rats live longer.

I think that is based on the acknowledgement that we don't live in an sterile environment so it is beneficial to consume everything that can shape the intestinal microbiota to a healthier state. Like in the case of carrots that act as a natural antibiotic.

 

[Amazoniac]

It was organic at least by law... don't think I can find pickled garlic. Sounds tasty though.

I'm going to try to make it - will report back when I've done that. I tried some once, but felt the brand I bought used WAY too much salt. I figure, if I make it like I would dill pickles but then just leave out the cukes, it should come out pretty tasty :)

Taste in this case can be your guide. Too sour it means that the ecossystem got too diverse and it had time enough to grow potentially harmful organisms. Too bland means that you didn't let the culture ferment and develop enough.
There's a sweet spot when bacteria (that replicate faster) are dominant and undesired microorganisms are relatively low (the ones that have mitochondria and are a bit more complex). Usually 3 days at room temp.

 

[Amazoniac]

Even though this discussion is constructive let's not deviate from the main concern about this thread: ilovesugar's issues that remain unsolved..

 

[johns74]

I think Ray Peat's recommendation for eating a raw carrot often is based in part on the observation that germ-free rats live longer.

I think that is based on the acknowledgement that we don't live in an sterile environment so it is beneficial to consume everything that can shape the intestinal microbiota to a healthier state. Like in the case of carrots that act as a natural antibiotic.

right, and that healthier state is becoming closer to germ-free, so you're saying that same thing I said.

 

[gretchen]

I don't think anyone mentioned sunlight. I'm pretty sure Peat says it's a cure for depression. He wrote something called Using Sunlight to Sustain Life:
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... tain-life/

Q: You mention sunlight as beneficial to your health. How?

For example,it can cure depression, improve immunity, stimulate
our metabolism while decreasing food craving, and increase our
intelligence.

You might try getting 15 minutes to an hour or more of sunlight most days before noon, in order to get a good balance of red and blue light.

Try getting to sleep at a reasonable hour and sleep in a dark room with a sleep mask. Get up as soon as the alarm goes off and have something to eat. If getting up is hard, try to have a good bathrobe and slippers to put on. I'm convinced sleep patterns and daily sunlight exposure are major factors in winter depression; you have to be persistent to get control of it.

I'm wondering if drinking so much milk has something to do with it, ie, since milk contains tryptophan which metabolizes into serotonin. Two and half years of drinking milk after 20 years of avoiding, and am still not convinced of its value.

If nothing else works, you might consider getting out of the box and trying homeopathy. I've tried some of these remedies since last winter and find them effective, though mostly only in higher potencies (30c and up).
http://truestarhealth.com/Notes/2218006.html

One of the remedies mentioned for depression, Nat Mur, is actually salt.

You can find a more specific remedy for your symptoms at abc homeopathy.com:
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/go.php

I'm aware of what Peat says about homeopathy, btw.

 

[Amazoniac]

I think Ray Peat's recommendation for eating a raw carrot often is based in part on the observation that germ-free rats live longer.

I think that is based on the acknowledgement that we don't live in an sterile environment so it is beneficial to consume everything that can shape the intestinal microbiota to a healthier state. Like in the case of carrots that act as a natural antibiotic.

right, and that healthier state is becoming closer to germ-free, so you're saying that same thing I said.

This conversation seems to be moving in circles..
Again, germ-free is impractical in the real world and natural antibiotics present in plants do not attack every form of microorganism, if this was the case, it wouldn't be possible to ferment carrots with garlic. The objective in consuming those is to shift to a healthier state (edit: intestinal ecossystem), not eradicate every for of life present there.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think Ray Peat's recommendation for eating a raw carrot often is based in part on the observation that germ-free rats live longer.

I think that is based on the acknowledgement that we don't live in an sterile environment so it is beneficial to consume everything that can shape the intestinal microbiota to a healthier state. Like in the case of carrots that act as a natural antibiotic.

right, and that healthier state is becoming closer to germ-free, so you're saying that same thing I said.

This conversation seems to be moving in circles..
Again, germ-free is impractical in the real world and natural antibiotics present in plants do not attack every form of microorganism, if this was the case, it wouldn't be possible to ferment carrots with garlic. The objective in consuming those is to shift to a healthier state (edit: intestinal ecossystem), not eradicate every for of life present there.

Doesn't a "healthy" person have the bare minimum of germs to leave no space for more germs?

 

[johns74]

Again, germ-free is impractical in the real world and natural antibiotics present in plants do not attack every form of microorganism, if this was the case, it wouldn't be possible to ferment carrots with garlic.

moving closer to germ-free than where one is, is practical. that's part of why the raw carrot is helpful. we know that moving closer to germ-free is beneficial thanks to the studies that show the benefits of germ-free.

 

[Amazoniac]

I think Ray Peat's recommendation for eating a raw carrot often is based in part on the observation that germ-free rats live longer.

I think that is based on the acknowledgement that we don't live in an sterile environment so it is beneficial to consume everything that can shape the intestinal microbiota to a healthier state. Like in the case of carrots that act as a natural antibiotic.

right, and that healthier state is becoming closer to germ-free, so you're saying that same thing I said.

This conversation seems to be moving in circles..
Again, germ-free is impractical in the real world and natural antibiotics present in plants do not attack every form of microorganism, if this was the case, it wouldn't be possible to ferment carrots with garlic. The objective in consuming those is to shift to a healthier state (edit: intestinal ecossystem), not eradicate every for of life present there.

Doesn't a "healthy" person have the bare minimum of germs to leave no space for more germs?

Yes but it's a constant fight. Every step to assist is welcomed!

 

[Jennifer]

I'm REALLY sorry that you're still dealing with all this iLoveSugar. It's only gotten worse for me too so I'm in the same boat as you. I'm now always dizzy with brain fog, even almost passed out the other day, needing to sleep a lot because I'm exhausted all the time and feeling depressed about never getting better. The feeling depressed is quite understandable given your situation. You've had a long go of it trying to get better.

My next attempt at fixing this is doing the GI Effects comprehensive stool test (Amazoniac suggested it). Given you've been dealing with this for 15 years now you most likely have done this test, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Also, are you still consuming dairy and if so, are you sure it isn't binding you? I remember having a conversation with you about trying a mostly milk diet and you did mention that you had tried cutting down on milk intake at one point, but I couldn't find where you said you cut out dairy completely. I only mention this because your symptoms are so similar to mine. I won't list them all, but have almost every one you're dealing with, right down to the facial rash. I'm finding all dairy is very binding to me at this point.

Also, are you at all close to Massachusetts? If you are and are willing to go the more mainstream medical route which it seems you are given what you've said you've tried, I have a few distant relatives around the same age as you and I (29 and 32) who have SEVERE colitis and went to a gastroenterologist at Mass General who is apparently the best in his field (winning awards/wrote books) and are now doing awesome because of the medication they're on. If you live near there, I can definitely find out his name for you.

Lastly, have you ever thought about logging your recovery? It may sound silly, but it can help to get your thoughts/frustrations out while dealing with all this. Again, the depression is completely understandable and I've found logging therapeutic because in a way, it gives me a voice at a time when I feel a little powerless. The forum members have been really great and don't judge me despite the very candid and sometimes wacky things I say. They're also a second, third, fiftieth set of eyes and having your journey/info all in one place can help people put the puzzle together much faster than trying to go through all your older posts to get a complete picture of your history/context. This way, they're more likely to catch something that may be of help to you that you might have overlooked. Though I know it probably feels like you've tried everything and trust me, I feel the same way, the truth is, we are just as fixable as those who have healed.

 

[Amazoniac]

This is why they say that suffering ennobles. You are very kind in your words to everyone Jennifer!

 

[Jennifer]

Aww...thank you, Amazoniac. That's really sweet of you to say. I'm thankful that my words have come across as kind because I really do care about everyone.

 

[tara]

Well said Amazoniac, again.

you are not realizing the importance of this subject.

And for those questioning safety this study came out last summer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24890442

Ilovesugar, amongst all the tests you've had, do you know if you have been tested for clostridium difficile infection? CDI can have debilitating effects on digestion and overall health, and are sometimes very hard to get under control. These are the ones fecal transplants have sometimes shown themselves to be helpful for, though not without some risk.