Depression, Isolation, And The Modern World

[kamander]

Thank you all for such beautiful, true, insightful, meaningful, loving writing. I've been in isolation for over 5 years and now I'm at age 66. Living life took a lot from me to keep in it and I have needed alone time to find my true self and heal all that. So grateful I found or was led to Ray!! Gratitude is a big one for me...
I have hope for the future when I hear you young folk share. Keep it coming!!! Mucho love!!!!

 

[DaveFoster]

@postman Forget what I said: very uncouth of me. Point taken.

 

[jaguar43]

"I think that professor's theory is a good example of rigid thinking. Utah is unique in the (young) age structure of its population, meaning very rapid population growth, and the region has been known for its ideological and political conservatism. When I lived in Montana, I noticed that people from the mountain states had a culture of extreme individualism, militarism, and authoritarianism.

Suicide is so highly influenced by culture that information from just one or two nations can very easily produce associations that are misleading--more cultures have to be considered. In the US, sparse population and Republican party affiliation happen to be associated with suicide and higher altitude, and religious affiliation and military experience are other relevant factors that are unevenly distributed. War-related investment has been a major factor in the rate of population growth in certain states. Countries with the highest suicide rates, Lithuania, Guyana, Sri Lanka, have generally low altitudes; countries with a high average altitude, Mexico and Bolivia, have low suicide rates. The average age at which suicide occurs varies greatly in different places and times"

- Ray Peat

I think a lot of the problems you are referencing are part of the culture it self. It is well known that in america everyone is your "friend" based on their needs at the present time. People in Europe don't throw around the word "friendship" that much and are more strict on who is considered their friend. If you want to get of out a certain social framework you have to get out of a certain environmental and cultural framework.

 

[Spokey]

I would love to hear some opinions from anyone who wants to throw their two cents in.

I've made a conscious effort over the past month to try to minimize negative self-talk patterns and accompanying feelings of isolation and loneliness. How do you guys deal with being non-aggressive and not relying on a serotenergic pathway for motivation; e.g. being hateful, putting others down to achieve, bolstering your ego due to the reclusive nature of our modern community.

For example, I go to college here at the University of Oregon. People have relationships with one another, but they tend to be short-lived and fragile due to incompatible belief structures (due to cultural pluralism and the adoption of narcissistic values.) I regularly see people crying, and we have an epidemic of anxiety and depression on campus, and indeed on many campuses throughout the country, of which I suffer. Many people seem fine, but there's a sizable number who appear withdrawn, lonesome, and empty. Self-medication comes in the form of recreational drugs, such as caffeine, marijuana, alcohol, and tobacco. Other options include benzodiazepine drugs, SSRI's, and MDMA.

My question is this: if aggression is a self-reinforcing cycle that needs to be broken, how can I maintain the motivation to break it? How do I restrain the excessive ego and leave myself unburdened by the insanity and loneliness? It's so hard to integrate and find common interests, and the negative effects of being isolated compounds this problem. This extends to romantic relationships (unfulfilling due to the hedonistic desires of my generation,) friendships (not value-based, but based upon convenience and desires of the moment), and even group communication, (centering around inclusive topics of no substance due to political correctness). Am I alone in my experience with these things?

If any have suffered similar trials, what have you guys done to break out from this cycle and build your self-confidence? I would appreciate any advice, and I'd like this to be helpful for others who suffer from the same problems.

It saddens me that suffering for you is so commonplace. The only advice I can give you is to find time to be alone and just be. Just allowing yourself to feel what you feel without seeking some resolution can be very therapeutic. In the modern world, we often seek rational, goal oriented solutions to our problems, but this often extends to treating ourselves like machines. The more we struggle with self talk and rationalizations trying, essentially to deceive ourselves, the more problems we create. This struggling can work in the short term, but ultimately leads away from finding peace. Try trusting your innate intelligence.

 

[narouz]

This is not meant to stand-in for an attempt at a more comprehensive take
on the nature of happiness.
That is such a giant subject it fatigues me just trying to think how to address it.

But one thing Peat's influence has done to me
is make me more aware of how somatic my emotions are.
I hope not completely--to think so seems kinda deterministic.

But I have become more aware, over my time reading and thinking about Peat's idea,
how much a thriving metabolism helps buoy up my emotions.
When my metabolism is working well, my emotions, my happiness level is better, more resilient.

I'm hypothyroid, but was only diagnosed relatively recently in my life--about 8 years ago I guess.
Looking back over my life, I bet some of the more isolated, sad, inert episodes
were times when I was hypothyroid to some extent.
I almost never went to doctors or had lab tests, so I can't know, empirically.
I'm over-simplifying here--not as simple or narrow as just thyroid health.
But since my mom was hypo too, I bet I've always had that tendency, but never knew it.

I don't mean to say our biology is our destiny, our biology dictates our moods and feelings.
But...I do think that through my study of Peat I've become more aware
of how much the bodily health of my organism affects my mood, energy, resilience, happiness.

At the same time, when I start looking at life that way,
I remind myself that the soma and the spirit should not be separated so simplistically.
It's easy to lapse into thinking: oh, I can't feel happy until I can get my damn thyroid working!
I do think the mind, the will, can influence the body.
That mind/body separation is probably just an illusion we, as humans, often get stuck in.

 

[James_001]

I would love to hear some opinions from anyone who wants to throw their two cents in.

I've made a conscious effort over the past month to try to minimize negative self-talk patterns and accompanying feelings of isolation and loneliness. How do you guys deal with being non-aggressive and not relying on a serotenergic pathway for motivation; e.g. being hateful, putting others down to achieve, bolstering your ego due to the reclusive nature of our modern community.

For example, I go to college here at the University of Oregon. People have relationships with one another, but they tend to be short-lived and fragile due to incompatible belief structures (due to cultural pluralism and the adoption of narcissistic values.) I regularly see people crying, and we have an epidemic of anxiety and depression on campus, and indeed on many campuses throughout the country, of which I suffer. Many people seem fine, but there's a sizable number who appear withdrawn, lonesome, and empty. Self-medication comes in the form of recreational drugs, such as caffeine, marijuana, alcohol, and tobacco. Other options include benzodiazepine drugs, SSRI's, and MDMA.

My question is this: if aggression is a self-reinforcing cycle that needs to be broken, how can I maintain the motivation to break it? How do I restrain the excessive ego and leave myself unburdened by the insanity and loneliness? It's so hard to integrate and find common interests, and the negative effects of being isolated compounds this problem. This extends to romantic relationships (unfulfilling due to the hedonistic desires of my generation,) friendships (not value-based, but based upon convenience and desires of the moment), and even group communication, (centering around inclusive topics of no substance due to political correctness). Am I alone in my experience with these things?

If any have suffered similar trials, what have you guys done to break out from this cycle and build your self-confidence? I would appreciate any advice, and I'd like this to be helpful for others who suffer from the same problems.

Building your emotional intelligence would be my first thought.

Also, I think the way to maintain motivation is through keeping a high libido, i.e. all of your actions will be loved based instead of hatred oriented.

Have you ever used high-dose psychedelics? I would suggest it if you haven't.

Also, although I think that most self-help books are dumb, one I highly suggest is called "No more Mr.nice guy" by Dr.Robert Glover

It is basically about being honest and maintaining your values/boundaries, as opposed to changing yourself just to fit in with other people.

 

[DaveFoster]

"I think that professor's theory is a good example of rigid thinking. Utah is unique in the (young) age structure of its population, meaning very rapid population growth, and the region has been known for its ideological and political conservatism. When I lived in Montana, I noticed that people from the mountain states had a culture of extreme individualism, militarism, and authoritarianism.

Suicide is so highly influenced by culture that information from just one or two nations can very easily produce associations that are misleading--more cultures have to be considered. In the US, sparse population and Republican party affiliation happen to be associated with suicide and higher altitude, and religious affiliation and military experience are other relevant factors that are unevenly distributed. War-related investment has been a major factor in the rate of population growth in certain states. Countries with the highest suicide rates, Lithuania, Guyana, Sri Lanka, have generally low altitudes; countries with a high average altitude, Mexico and Bolivia, have low suicide rates. The average age at which suicide occurs varies greatly in different places and times"

- Ray Peat

I think a lot of the problems you are referencing are part of the culture it self. It is well known that in america everyone is your "friend" based on their needs at the present time. People in Europe don't throw around the word "friendship" that much and are more strict on who is considered their friend. If you want to get of out a certain social framework you have to get out of a certain environmental and cultural framework.

I agree. It's just silly; it seems abundance would diminish this behavior, but maybe the dietary factors and ideological manipulation perpetuate this idea of dire scarcity and lack.

It saddens me that suffering for you is so commonplace. The only advice I can give you is to find time to be alone and just be. Just allowing yourself to feel what you feel without seeking some resolution can be very therapeutic. In the modern world, we often seek rational, goal oriented solutions to our problems, but this often extends to treating ourselves like machines. The more we struggle with self talk and rationalizations trying, essentially to deceive ourselves, the more problems we create. This struggling can work in the short term, but ultimately leads away from finding peace. Try trusting your innate intelligence.

I appreciate your words. I need to start meditating again.

This is not meant to stand-in for an attempt at a more comprehensive take
on the nature of happiness.
That is such a giant subject it fatigues me just trying to think how to address it.

But one thing Peat's influence has done to me
is make me more aware of how somatic my emotions are.
I hope not completely--to think so seems kinda deterministic.

But I have become more aware, over my time reading and thinking about Peat's idea,
how much a thriving metabolism helps buoy up my emotions.
When my metabolism is working well, my emotions, my happiness level is better, more resilient.

I'm hypothyroid, but was only diagnosed relatively recently in my life--about 8 years ago I guess.
Looking back over my life, I bet some of the more isolated, sad, inert episodes
were times when I was hypothyroid to some extent.
I almost never went to doctors or had lab tests, so I can't know, empirically.
I'm over-simplifying here--not as simple or narrow as just thyroid health.
But since my mom was hypo too, I bet I've always had that tendency, but never knew it.

I don't mean to say our biology is our destiny, our biology dictates our moods and feelings.
But...I do think that through my study of Peat I've become more aware
of how much the bodily health of my organism affects my mood, energy, resilience, happiness.

At the same time, when I start looking at life that way,
I remind myself that the soma and the spirit should not be separated so simplistically.
It's easy to lapse into thinking: oh, I can't feel happy until I can get my damn thyroid working!
I do think the mind, the will, can influence the body.
That mind/body separation is probably just an illusion we, as humans, often get stuck in.

Absolutely. I think we can feel either happy or unhappy, but we're more sensitive to changes when our thyroid and metabolism are not working optimally. We turn from a Ferrari into a station-wagon.

Building your emotional intelligence would be my first thought.

Also, I think the way to maintain motivation is through keeping a high libido, i.e. all of your actions will be loved based instead of hatred oriented.

Have you ever used high-dose psychedelics? I would suggest it if you haven't.

Also, although I think that most self-help books are dumb, one I highly suggest is called "No more Mr.nice guy" by Dr.Robert Glover

It is basically about being honest and maintaining your values/boundaries, as opposed to changing yourself just to fit in with other people.

I used to think libido and metabolism were not perfectly coordinated, but now I realize that the body will tell you if everything's working correctly.

I'll take a look at the summary of the book you mentioned.

I've never tried high-dose psychedelics, only low-dose. I don't want to lose my mind; I know people who have been troubled from doing that.

 

[mayweatherking]

I want to add two things here. I think you and i we both need to respect the biology aspect of the situation and realize we need social interaction period.

Instead of fighting against the urge.. We need to respect it for what it is and respect the dna encoded inside of us.

Yes there is "truth" and the "reality" of any situation... But we would not be here if we didn't have social interactiom for millions of years. We depended on each other to stay alive.

We can feel like loners when we are alone because one million years ago if you are alome would probably die. The lonliness keeps you wanting to find others in your own self interest to stay alive.

I need to work on this a lot myself... I need to start respecting biolgy.. It is what it is

 

[DaveFoster]

I want to add two things here. I think you and i we both need to respect the biology aspect of the situation and realize we need social interaction period.

Instead of fighting against the urge.. We need to respect it for what it is and respect the dna encoded inside of us.

Yes there is "truth" and the "reality" of any situation... But we would not be here if we didn't have social interactiom for millions of years. We depended on each other to stay alive.

We can feel like loners when we are alone because one million years ago if you are alome would probably die. The lonliness keeps you wanting to find others in your own self interest to stay alive.

I need to work on this a lot myself... I need to start respecting biolgy.. It is what it is

True. And you have 666 posts.

 

[Drareg]

This is not meant to stand-in for an attempt at a more comprehensive take
on the nature of happiness.
That is such a giant subject it fatigues me just trying to think how to address it.

But one thing Peat's influence has done to me
is make me more aware of how somatic my emotions are.
I hope not completely--to think so seems kinda deterministic.

But I have become more aware, over my time reading and thinking about Peat's idea,
how much a thriving metabolism helps buoy up my emotions.
When my metabolism is working well, my emotions, my happiness level is better, more resilient.

I'm hypothyroid, but was only diagnosed relatively recently in my life--about 8 years ago I guess.
Looking back over my life, I bet some of the more isolated, sad, inert episodes
were times when I was hypothyroid to some extent.
I almost never went to doctors or had lab tests, so I can't know, empirically.
I'm over-simplifying here--not as simple or narrow as just thyroid health.
But since my mom was hypo too, I bet I've always had that tendency, but never knew it.

I don't mean to say our biology is our destiny, our biology dictates our moods and feelings.
But...I do think that through my study of Peat I've become more aware
of how much the bodily health of my organism affects my mood, energy, resilience, happiness.

At the same time, when I start looking at life that way,
I remind myself that the soma and the spirit should not be separated so simplistically.
It's easy to lapse into thinking: oh, I can't feel happy until I can get my damn thyroid working!
I do think the mind, the will, can influence the body.
That mind/body separation is probably just an illusion we, as humans, often get stuck in.

Yes, the 5 senses/lenses are like a filter for us, what we are filtering is only a small part of what's there,if the filter/lense gets clogged or its structure damaged you will have issue with taking in and projecting out,ultimately they are both the same.

It seems with a perfect filter you would know exactly what to do in life? You would know the purpose?
The inner mind may possibly be a 6the sense/lense, this inner mind can show you images in dreams and daydreams but for most of us they are regurgitated from cultural implants, is it possible to envision originality or is everything always within the the structure of the 5 senses, when we speaks of the ineffable perhaps this is an indication of the inner eye seeing beyond the 5 senses?

Are Dmt visuals original for example, are they really ineffable.
Ray Peat speaks of serotonin being a mask! The word Persona comes from mask.

 

[narouz]

...Are Dmt visuals original for example, are they really ineffable.
Ray Peat speaks of serotonin being a mask! The word Persona comes from mask.

Yes, I vaguely remember that, Drareg!
About the mask and serotonin I mean.
Do you happen to remember where he talks about that...?

And thought-provoking etymology with mask--serotonin--persona

 

[Drareg]

Yes, I vaguely remember that, Drareg!
About the mask and serotonin I mean.
Do you happen to remember where he talks about that...?

And thought-provoking etymology with mask--serotonin--persona

I can't remember exactly, something tells me it was with Danny Roddy.

Yes it's fascinating to think that serotonin is filtering and projecting our perceptions so potently, where it gets strange is when serotonin appears to be the default setting of the human organism functioning on earth, if we are in an lsd like state constantly nothing will be done? Micro dosing perhaps paints a different picture.

If we look at it from what Peat mentioned before,that some hormones are old adaptive mechanisms keeping in mind that the universe seems to be evolving toward a more complex state, the question I would ask,is adrenalin and older adaptive hormone,serotonin relatively new?it seems sometimes that serotonin is like the thinking adrenalin, adrenalin being fight or flight, serotonin being aggression or depression.

It may be saying that we are evolving a new mask/persona/hormone of sorts, what hormone and is their any evidence for it yet,perhaps a mild magnetic shift on the planet would allow for this?

 

[thegiantess]

Don't take this as condesending, but I really feel that you feel just like many smart people your age feel/have felt. If I recall from other posts, you're 19-21? My God, at that age I was suffering, but so were all my friends. I took the route of self medication (alcohol and cigarettes) because that is what I knew. It worked for me. I made a lot of friends that way and many of those friends transcended the bar scene. In fact, most of my current closest friends are from when I was 19-25 and drinking heavily. When I wasn't drinking or partying I was usually alone. I spent a lot of time walking. I would just walk and walk and try and process the feelings of angst and isolation and confusion that I had. I also did a lot of writing and a lot of traveling around the country... Very basic soul searching that is in my mind a rite of passage. Perhaps instead of trying to find the cure for your blues, you should embrace where you are and roll with it. Lose yourself in music and thought. Do like I did and walk and walk until you find your way... Or don't.. and then keep walking. Having the level of intelligence you seem to have can be a curse. I am confident it will pass and you'll sort out the mess of your mind. I didn't get there (comfortable with myself) until I was about 31.

 

[Luann]

What giantess said, which was very well put and powerful to read

Also sometimes it helps to think of a depressive episode as a histamine reaction, like actually an allergy. Sometimes that's all it is.

 

[DaveFoster]

Don't take this as condesending, but I really feel that you feel just like many smart people your age feel/have felt. If I recall from other posts, you're 19-21? My God, at that age I was suffering, but so were all my friends. I took the route of self medication (alcohol and cigarettes) because that is what I knew. It worked for me. I made a lot of friends that way and many of those friends transcended the bar scene. In fact, most of my current closest friends are from when I was 19-25 and drinking heavily. When I wasn't drinking or partying I was usually alone. I spent a lot of time walking. I would just walk and walk and try and process the feelings of angst and isolation and confusion that I had. I also did a lot of writing and a lot of traveling around the country... Very basic soul searching that is in my mind a rite of passage. Perhaps instead of trying to find the cure for your blues, you should embrace where you are and roll with it. Lose yourself in music and thought. Do like I did and walk and walk until you find your way... Or don't.. and then keep walking. Having the level of intelligence you seem to have can be a curse. I am confident it will pass and you'll sort out the mess of your mind. I didn't get there (comfortable with myself) until I was about 31.

This is the most comforting post I've ever read. Thank you.

 

[Elephanto]

I think this is part of the answer :

Microwave Exposure Increases Serotonin And Impairs Learning

I feel like something global is happening and this seems to coincide with the mass adoption of wifi in households. There has never been as many mass murders and terrorist attacks, and the people I know seem to have changed in the recent years (more self-centered, stressed/aggressive or indifferent to everything). I don't think this is a matter of culture, but rather that the environment has changed the chemical balance of people and this in turn changes the culture.

 

[DaveFoster]

@Elephanto

It's probably caused by a multitude of factors; microwaves could certainly contribute, as could allergens, poor food quality, excessive PUFA, mineral depletion, metals, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Drareg]

I think this is part of the answer :

Microwave Exposure Increases Serotonin And Impairs Learning

I feel like something global is happening and this seems to coincide with the mass adoption of wifi in households. There has never been as many mass murders and terrorist attacks, and the people I know seem to have changed in the recent years (more self-centered, stressed/aggressive or indifferent to everything). I don't think this is a matter of culture, but rather that the environment has changed the chemical balance of people and this in turn changes the culture.

I agree with the chemical imbalance but in many cases it's what people believe that cause the imbalance or led to believe,what they tune into. Culture will change with this.

There is more reporting of global issues than ever before, I don't think there is a rise in the number, human history is a bloodbath.

The constant news and buzz is an economic necessity for media corporations, the media corporations have more competition than ever before, they will go to extraordinary measures for a story, they take pictures of little kids after terrorist attacks for impact,most of them picture the kid and walk on offering no assistance, they are being professional they say!
All this creates the illusion of more chaos in the world.

If you left out the nuclear bomb potential you could argue we live in one of safest periods in history. It can definitely be safer.

 

[Jason]

i find that willing things to stop really doesn't work, just creates a fakeness about yourself


the only way i've found to better deal with the world is meditation, i do a form called shikantaza where i just think, aggressive thoughts, repetitive, whatever ! i do about two hours a day


microdosing lithium carbonate helps with anxiety as well


i actually left college because i was so stressed, i think it was one of the best decisions i've made for myself !

 

[Luann]

i actually left college because i was so stressed, i think it was one of the best decisions i've made for myself !

same here, do people ask you when you're going back (to buy your degree, like a normal youth would)?