Doxycyclin Massively Improved Digestion

[Mauritio]

Wanted to remind people of this study:
I think most interesting is that up to 40mg daily does not seem to make bacteria resistant to anti-biotics.

"Doxycycline is used to treat infective diseases because of its broadspectrum efficacy. High dose administration (100 or 200 mg/day) is often responsible for development of bacterial resistances and endogenous flora alterations, whereas low doses (20–40 mg/day) do not alter bacteria susceptibility to antibiotics and exert anti-inflammatory activities. In this study, we wanted to assess the efficacy of both low and high doxycycline doses in modulating IL-8, TNF-, and IL-6 gene expression in HaCaT cells stimulated with LPS. Three experimental settings were used, differing in the timing of doxycycline treatment in respect to the insult induced by LPS: pretreatment, concomitant, and posttreatment. Low doses were more effective than high doses in modulating gene expression of LPS-induced proinflammatory cytokines (IL-8, TNF-, and IL-6), when added before (pretreatment) or after (posttreatment) LPS stimulation. This effect was not appreciated when LPS and doxycycline were simultaneously added to cell cultures: in this case high doses were more effective. In conclusion, our in vitro study suggests that low doxycycline doses could be safely used in chronic or acute skin diseases in which the inflammatory process, either constantly in progress or periodically recurring, has to be prevented or controlled"
https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/329418-pdf.9583/

Also thanks @Noah Glanz for recommending fernarzt

 

[Waremu]

The removal of problematic foods (mainly starch and fiber and spicy foods) for quite some time has had the biggest positive effect on my digestion and I never looked back since. When I tell people with digestive issues to think about experimenting going starch and fiber free (except maybe a raw carrot), they are often puzzled, but I think it is something one has to experience and do for a lengthy enough period of time to truly see if they get benefits and to truly experience those benefits. The mental clarity is very noticeable. And I never have digestive issues. Literally zero. I do still take activated charcoal and raw carrots from time to time.

 

[milkboi]

I think this is a bizarre statement. It's pretty clear to me that an array of substances, ranging from food to vitamins to supplements to drugs, can have a noticeable and even measurable effect within minutes to hours. ...

100% agree. I think he was just frustrated that Doxy didn't work for him lol.

The removal of problematic foods (mainly starch and fiber and spicy foods) for quite some time has had the biggest positive effect on my digestion and I never looked back since. When I tell people with digestive issues to think about experimenting going starch and fiber free (except maybe a raw carrot), they are often puzzled, but I think it is something one has to experience and do for a lengthy enough period of time to truly see if they get benefits and to truly experience those benefits. The mental clarity is very noticeable. And I never have digestive issues. Literally zero. I do still take activated charcoal and raw carrots from time to time.

Preach! Realized this actually on a Carnivore Diet (after that I switched to a RP style diet)... I am on a starch- and fiber-free diet right now, and was before the Doxy. It for sure provided and provides relief, but Doxy was the only thing really breaking the cycle of bad digestion for me.

 

[Owen B]

I had big hopes for doxycycline but my intention was to go only low-dose. This study shows low-dose (under 50 mgs. a day) will produce some antibiotic effects but not enough to cause resistance. At the same time, it will function as an anti-inflammatory; getting cytokines, TNF-alpha down.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/mi/2015/329418/

Unfortunately, it tore my stomach up, even at a low dose. I have a bad skin condition that dermatologists typically see as a bacterial infection. It's what MDs do; they tend to see only extremes, not the mean. I knew it was anti-inflammatory and now want it to be treated as such. Cyproheptadine and Ketotifen would be my choice now. I'd love to hear what my MD would say about low-dose antibiotics; if you don't have an infection they don't want to hear anything.

RP himself reportedly takes low-dose tetracycline 2-3 times a week.

If i could get low-dose tetra or another tetra class antibiotic in my system I'd be ecstatic. K2 is in the same general class but I haven't tried it.

BTW, there's a lot of other studies out there on the same subject. Just Google "low-dose doxycycline".

 

[milkboi]

I had big hopes for doxycycline but my intention was to go only low-dose. This study shows low-dose (under 50 mgs. a day) will produce some antibiotic effects but not enough to cause resistance. At the same time, it will function as an anti-inflammatory; getting cytokines, TNF-alpha down.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/mi/2015/329418/

Unfortunately, it tore my stomach up, even at a low dose. I have a bad skin condition that dermatologists typically see as a bacterial infection. It's what MDs do; they tend to see only extremes, not the mean. I knew it was anti-inflammatory and now want it to be treated as such. Cyproheptadine and Ketotifen would be my choice now.
RP himself reportedly takes low-dose tetracycline 2-3 times a week.

Interesting, thanks Owen.
I love Cypro aswell... not sure about it being directly anti-inflammatory tho. Maybe indirectly through its effect on digestion.

Do you have a qoute from the man himself about his Tetracycline use?

 

[Simba1992]

I have or at least had ephogitis for a long time with daily gag reflexes. I also have RA. I took a two month course of Doxy 50mg daily dose. I took it with food around 14 oclock. I also take Alcaselzer with 340mg aspirine every morning with breakfast. Low dose Doxy has shown to decrease inflammation in RA. When I stopped my digestion problems were gone and true enough RA symptoms decreased.

 

[Owen B]

Interesting, thanks Owen.
I love Cypro aswell... not sure about it being directly anti-inflammatory tho. Maybe indirectly through its effect on digestion.

Do you have a qoute from the man himself about his Tetracycline use?

Cyproheptadine Is Anti-inflammatory

There's something about cypro and inflammation. And I think you're right about digestion; I saw a study recently where cypro reduces endotoxin by inhibiting TNF-alpha.

I can't put my finger on a RP quote, but I've seen it a couple of times.

 

[Goobz]

I have to take doxy for a chronic infection similar to Lyme (chlamydia pneumoniae). Hopefully for not too much longer.

Tetracyclines are great for many things, but I wouldn't recommend them for gut health. Scientists were hoping it might help colon cancer, as it seems to help with skin cancer. Instead they found it induced inflammation and carcinogenesis in the gut. It's been linked to the development of Crohn's, IBS, etc.

It's a drug with many effects in the body, not all of them beneficial. There is no biological free lunch, etc etc

 

[Goobz]

Doxycycline Promotes Carcinogenesis & Metastasis via Chronic Inflammatory Pathway: An In Vivo Approach

Potential association between the oral tetracycline class of antimicrobials used to treat acne and inflammatory bowel disease. - PubMed - NCBI

If you google "doxycycline colon cancer" or "doxycycline crohn's" you'll find more.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Wanted to remind people of this study:
I think most interesting is that up to 40mg daily does not seem to make bacteria resistant to anti-biotics.

"Doxycycline is used to treat infective diseases because of its broadspectrum efficacy. High dose administration (100 or 200 mg/day) is often responsible for development of bacterial resistances and endogenous flora alterations, whereas low doses (20–40 mg/day) do not alter bacteria susceptibility to antibiotics and exert anti-inflammatory activities. In this study, we wanted to assess the efficacy of both low and high doxycycline doses in modulating IL-8, TNF-, and IL-6 gene expression in HaCaT cells stimulated with LPS. Three experimental settings were used, differing in the timing of doxycycline treatment in respect to the insult induced by LPS: pretreatment, concomitant, and posttreatment. Low doses were more effective than high doses in modulating gene expression of LPS-induced proinflammatory cytokines (IL-8, TNF-, and IL-6), when added before (pretreatment) or after (posttreatment) LPS stimulation. This effect was not appreciated when LPS and doxycycline were simultaneously added to cell cultures: in this case high doses were more effective. In conclusion, our in vitro study suggests that low doxycycline doses could be safely used in chronic or acute skin diseases in which the inflammatory process, either constantly in progress or periodically recurring, has to be prevented or controlled"
https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/329418-pdf.9583/

Also thanks @Noah Glanz for recommending fernarzt

I still think the most likely thing to make bacteria resistant to antibiotics is excess iron, and not antibiotics themselves.

 

[RobertJM]

Where do I get doxycycline from? Does anyone have any good sources?

 

[milkboi]

Where do I get doxycycline from? Does anyone have any good sources?

Saw this down at the recommended threads: Doxycycline Prescription Easy Way. Malaria Prophylaxis
Maybe try that :)

And if you live in Germany, I posted my source on page 1.

 

[nwo2012]

Doxycycline Promotes Carcinogenesis & Metastasis via Chronic Inflammatory Pathway: An In Vivo Approach

Potential association between the oral tetracycline class of antimicrobials used to treat acne and inflammatory bowel disease. - PubMed - NCBI

If you google "doxycycline colon cancer" or "doxycycline crohn's" you'll find more.

Try actually reading studies rather than abstracts and conclusions

Group III animals were administered DMH for 10 weeks followed by Doxycycline treatment intraperitoneally (i.p) at a dose of 10mg/kg (DMH-DOX (10mg/kg)) or 20mg/kg body weight (DMH-DOX (20mg/kg)) [12,13] per day for 15 days. Animals in Group IV were administered Doxycycline alone (i.p) with different doses comprising 5mg/kg (DOX (5mg/kg)), 10mg/kg (DOX (10mg/kg)) and 20mg/kg body weight (DOX (20mg/kg)) per day for 15 days.

That would equate to between 500mg to 2000mg in a 100kg human. Ffs no wonder it had negative results. And imagine the bacterial die-off and subsequent endotoxin release in the animals.

 

[nwo2012]

Its also why I only use 25mg daily for 3-4 days twice monthly. Dont kill off roo many gram negative bacteria at once.
Naltrexone or naloxone also help reduce effects of LPS. Pizotifen and Ketotifen too. Cypro also.

 

[milkboi]

Its also why I only use 25mg daily for 3-4 days twice monthly. Dont kill off roo many gram negative bacteria at once.
Naltrexone or naloxone also help reduce effects of LPS. Pizotifen and Ketotifen too. Cypro also.

Nice, that‘s what I basically do now, too. 25mg 2x/3x a week... any advantage you see in your protocol compared to the above?

 

[Goobz]

Try actually reading studies rather than abstracts and conclusions


That would equate to between 500mg to 2000mg in a 100kg human. Ffs no wonder it had negative results. And imagine the bacterial die-off and subsequent endotoxin release in the animals.

Well, that's 250mg to 1000mg for a 50kg human. 400mg is considered necessary for Lyme disease, for instance. You may get bacteriostatic effects at lower doses, but if you want it to act as a bacteriocidal antibiotic and not just drive the infection into a persistent state, higher doses are needed.

Low doses of anti replicative antibiotics such as doxycycline used alone drive such bacteria from their replicating state, into their non replicating cryptic state, and cause persistence of such infections. Especially chlamydia pneumoniae, which is a very ubiquitous pathogen and associated with a whole range of diseases. It's a respiratory pathogen, but when faced with certain stimuli, it can take up residence in blood vessels as a persistent infection and cause atherosclerosis, heart disease, MS, amongst other things. See cpnhelp.org for info, if you're interested.

Though the doses you mentioned are so low I don't think it would have that effect. I don't think youll kill many bacteria either.

And the other study is epidemiological and looked at increased chances of developing IBD if prescribed a tetracycline antibiotic. No massive doses there. If you take these two studies together, it paints a certain picture. That is my point.

I'd urge you to consider drugs as having both beneficial and negative effects. Instead of grouping substances into "good" or "bad' or "Peat approved" or not. You don't need to defend doxycycline or its use. This is science we're discussing here, (hopefully) not religious dogma. Its ok to post studies showing negative effects, so people can have more information and make educated decisions.

 

[nwo2012]

Well, that's 250mg to 1000mg for a 50kg human. 400mg is considered necessary for Lyme disease, for instance. You may get bacteriostatic effects at lower doses, but if you want it to act as a bacteriocidal antibiotic and not just drive the infection into a persistent state, higher doses are needed.

Low doses of anti replicative antibiotics such as doxycycline used alone drive such bacteria from their replicating state, into their non replicating cryptic state, and cause persistence of such infections. Especially chlamydia pneumoniae, which is a very ubiquitous pathogen and associated with a whole range of diseases. It's a respiratory pathogen, but when faced with certain stimuli, it can take up residence in blood vessels as a persistent infection and cause atherosclerosis, heart disease, MS, amongst other things. See cpnhelp.org for info, if you're interested.

Though the doses you mentioned are so low I don't think it would have that effect. I don't think youll kill many bacteria either.

And the other study is epidemiological and looked at increased chances of developing IBD if prescribed a tetracycline antibiotic. No massive doses there. If you take these two studies together, it paints a certain picture. That is my point.

I'd urge you to consider drugs as having both beneficial and negative effects. Instead of grouping substances into "good" or "bad' or "Peat approved" or not. You don't need to defend doxycycline or its use. This is science we're discussing here, (hopefully) not religious dogma. Its ok to post studies showing negative effects, so people can have more information and make educated decisions.

Modern science is mostly a dogmatic faith based religion. Studies purposefully designed to show the desired results.
One could easily call the information you linked on cp to be quackery.
Studies conducted on people with their average PUFA laden diets hold no bearing on the results someone would achieve eating correctly.
You think your beliefs must be facts wheteas I believe they are BS. Not wasting more time debating with you, life is short enough.

 

[nwo2012]

Nice, that‘s what I basically do now, too. 25mg 2x/3x a week... any advantage you see in your protocol compared to the above?

I believe, and I see results from improved gut motility to confirm this, that smaller doses are effective and do not increase the LPS burden appreciably.
When Ive tried higher doses I tend to get small episodes of tinnitus.

 

[Goobz]

Modern science is mostly a dogmatic faith based religion. Studies purposefully designed to show the desired results.
One could easily call the information you linked on cp to be quackery.
Studies conducted on people with their average PUFA laden diets hold no bearing on the results someone would achieve eating correctly.
You think your beliefs must be facts wheteas I believe they are BS. Not wasting more time debating with you, life is short enough.

I'm not trying to "debate" you, all I did was I post some studies, which you responded to by first telling me to "try reading properly." I expanded on it, and then you decided to simply call the studies "quackery."

Right, so all modern science that comes in that supports RP and his ideas must be well performed science, finally proving the brilliant man right. Whereas everything that comes in and shows the opposite is simply "quackery"?

One thing I like about Peat is that he has changed his mind multiple times on things. Some of his readers seem quite different.

Anyway, I only posted those studies for people who feel like discussing the pros and cons of antibiotic use and want to weigh up the benefits and risks. I'm not an expert (I did study some medical science years ago) but I have to take antibiotics at the moment and have done some research into them, and I like to hear both sides of the story. And I think theres more to this particular story than "sugar, thyroid, tetracyclines = good; estrogen, PUFA, fish oil = bad. Always. RP said so. Any study showing otherwise? Blame the PUFA"

 

[CLASH]

Theres definitive cons, heres how to mitigate them from what i’ve read/ experimented with:


Getting a stool test or a culture and sensitivity of urine or wherever you have the pathogen can let you see what the specific pathogen is and what its sensitive to antibiotic wise.

Taking an antibiotic with essential oils can decrease antibiotic resistance and lower the neccesary dose required for the antibiotic effect. The essential oils are also antibacterial in and of themselves, the most potent seem to be cinnamon and oregano.

Using probiotic lactobacillus and bifido species while using the antibiotic would help to keep the immune system active and prevent opportunistic infections while you wipe out the pathogen. These species also directly kill pathogens and maintain an acidic colon to prevent pathogen growth and adhesion to the intestine.

Using human milk oligosaccharides concurrently like 2’-fucosyllactose and galactooligosaccharides will help beneficial flora flourish and inhibit pathogenic strains as most cannot ferment these specific sugars.

Using colostrum concurrently can provide antibodies that can help to inhibit the binding of pathogenic species to the intestinal epithelial.

Using immune stimulants and boosters concurrently like vit c, zinc, DHEA, maitake, shiitake, reishi, vit A, vit D can help the body overcome the infection and lower inflammatory burden from bacterial products.

Using nystatin concurrently can prevent fungal colonization, especially in conjunction with the essential oils.

Using rifaxmin concurrently can wipe out SIBO and prevent c.diff infection.

Minocycline penetrate tissues way better than the other tetracyclines and has other benefits besides its antibiotic effects. It can be used to wipe out latent intracellular infections. It has been used for quite a few soft tissue based autoimmune disease. This site has alot of info on the protocol, apparently it has been in use for a few decades. Road Back Foundation - Rheumatic Disease Treatments

Using proteolytic enzymes can enhance the penetration of antimicrobial compounds into tissues at the infection site and can help to degrade biofilms.