Endotoxin Die-off?

[Jeemmy]

Hello all guys, after various searching and reading on the forum, I'm starting to think that all my problems are coming from my problematic gut. In fact I always had digestion problems in my life, and took a lot of antibiotics during my teenage years..

Since I read the great success @lollipop had with digestive enzymes and the fact that they seems legit to be both as antibiotics and antifungi (and also supporting my poor digestion), I decided to give them a try. So I have this enzymes with no additives from last year and I see the dosages are pretty low, so I took 4 caps yesterday before dinner.

After a while I started feeling an improvement in my mood, which in the evening is always kinda bad, along with an unpleasant feeling on my hearth (something like I felt it more than normal and it was a bit annoying). Few hours later, the situation got worse. The hearth feeling worsen and I also started to have flu like symptoms, sore throat, strange thinking like random thoughts which I wasn't able to control, feelings of cold or hot in random places on my body and dry mouth (100% I was nose breathing). It was really bad, I usually have no problems falling asleep but yesterday it took me so much due to these things.

My guess is that those are endotoxin reactions due to a die off of bacteria-fungi-whatever in my gut, since I see no reason for enzymes to give these symptoms. What are your thoughts? Should I continue to clear my gut once for all?

 

[Max23]

What was the product? I have not heard that digestive enzymes are antibacterial. How are they antibacterial? By what mechanism?

 

[Jeemmy]

What was the product? I have not heard that digestive enzymes are antibacterial. How are they antibacterial? By what mechanism?

The product is this:
Terranova Digestive Enzyme Complex – TERRANOVA
The mechanism proposed by the site enzymestuff.com is that protease (and cellulase in the case of fungi) helps breaking down the membrane of pathogens

 

[Vinny]

The product is this:
Terranova Digestive Enzyme Complex – TERRANOVA
The mechanism proposed by the site enzymestuff.com is that protease (and cellulase in the case of fungi) helps breaking down the membrane of pathogens

Sounds logical, but from taking Now Super Enzymes for many months, I never felt anything, good or bad. However, never took them in high doses. Don't have right now to experiment a bit, unfortunately.
See what happenes next and let us know.
If you bring lollipop,s thread, I,d give it a read. ATM, Am also looking for a safe way to kill my bugs.
Thanks

 

[revenant]

I was wondering about bacterial / endotoxin die-off after taking oregano oil and feeling horrible afterwards.

 

[Jeemmy]

Sounds logical, but from taking Now Super Enzymes for many months, I never felt anything, good or bad. However, never took them in high doses. Don't have right now to experiment a bit, unfortunately.
See what happenes next and let us know.
If you bring lollipop,s thread, I,d give it a read. ATM, Am also looking for a safe way to kill my bugs.
Thanks

Here is the thread:

Probiotics Revisited From Gut-Expert Ray Medina

You can find lollipop's post regarding enzymes in the second page.

 

[lvysaur]

What was the product? I have not heard that digestive enzymes are antibacterial. How are they antibacterial? By what mechanism?

Very simple, they digest food so the bacteria can't get it.

 

[Jeemmy]

I was wondering about bacterial / endotoxin die-off after taking oregano oil and feeling horrible afterwards.

Sounds legit to me, since I doubt oregano oil could affect you that bad (unless you are allergic to oregano or something lol)

 

[LUH 3417]

I was wondering about bacterial / endotoxin die-off after taking oregano oil and feeling horrible afterwards.

Oregano oil is really high in Oxalate
New discovery about low magnesium & oxalates, plus a GOOD UK article, and when your spouse is hypo and wants out of the relationship! - Stop The Thyroid Madness

 

[Blossom]

@Lollipop2, I tagged her just in case she has anything to add since she has an updated username.

 

[Lollipop2]

@Lollipop2, I tagged her just in case she has anything to add since she has an updated username.

Thanks @Blossom! My GI problems have improved so much I barely use digestive enzymes anymore. I do think the OP’s experience is die off. It might be better to start with one with a meal and then slowly, slowly increase. Digestive enzymes were probably one of the most effective things for GI troubles I took. Believe me, I took most everything. I think the Enzymedica Digest Basic is the best, low dose but effective.

Two other effect treatments: d-limonene @Inaut first gave me the idea to try. I use this product out of convenience:

Nature's Way Heartburn Free w/ROH10® Lasting Relief, 10 Softgels https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009ET7EC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_qkpfEbQ95RKV1

the second effective treatment I used was:
George’s Aloe Vera drink: Non - toxic tastes like water - but really soothes and reduces inflammation. This site explains more about it. I get it off Amazon.

In-Depth Review: George’s Aloe Vera Juice | AloeVeraGuru.com

hopes this helps!

 

[Jeemmy]

Thanks @Blossom! My GI problems have improved so much I barely use digestive enzymes anymore. I do think the OP’s experience is die off. It might be better to start with one with a meal and then slowly, slowly increase. Digestive enzymes were probably one of the most effective things for GI troubles I took. Believe me, I took most everything. I think the Enzymedica Digest Basic is the best, low dose but effective.

Two other effect treatments: d-limonene @Inaut first gave me the idea to try. I use this product out of convenience:

Nature's Way Heartburn Free w/ROH10® Lasting Relief, 10 Softgels https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009ET7EC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_qkpfEbQ95RKV1

the second effective treatment I used was:
George’s Aloe Vera drink: Non - toxic tastes like water - but really soothes and reduces inflammation. This site explains more about it. I get it off Amazon.

In-Depth Review: George’s Aloe Vera Juice | AloeVeraGuru.com

hopes this helps!

Hello @Lollipop2, thanks for your suggestions! I ordered Enzynatica digest gold and I will receive it tomorrow. It is higher in dosage but I will start with 1/4 caps per meal I think..

You said you basically cured all your symptoms. Did you have also systemic symptoms or just relative to GI?

 

[revenant]

Oregano oil is really high in Oxalate
New discovery about low magnesium & oxalates, plus a GOOD UK article, and when your spouse is hypo and wants out of the relationship! - Stop The Thyroid Madness

Thanks. I doubt two drops of the essential oil would have so much oxalates as to have an immediate effect, though.

I'm usually pretty skeptic about anything related to "detox" or "you'll feel worse before you feel better" treatments but at least the Herxheimer reaction seems to be a legit thing:

What Are the Die-Off Symptoms of Candida?

My symptoms were: fatigue, headache, bloating, digestive issues, skin itching, blurred vision, and an enlarged lymph node on the neck. Possibly a fever, but I didn't measure my temps.

I've taken aspirin and acticated charcoal to reduce the symptoms, and I know cyproheptadine has been recommended in other similar threads. Unfortunately cypro is unavailable in my country; is there another histamine that would help?

 

[LUH 3417]

Thanks. I doubt two drops of the essential oil would have so much oxalates as to have an immediate effect, though.

I'm usually pretty skeptic about anything related to "detox" or "you'll feel worse before you feel better" treatments but at least the Herxheimer reaction seems to be a legit thing:

What Are the Die-Off Symptoms of Candida?

My symptoms were: fatigue, headache, bloating, digestive issues, skin itching, blurred vision, and an enlarged lymph node on the neck. Possibly a fever, but I didn't measure my temps.

I've taken aspirin and acticated charcoal to reduce the symptoms, and I know cyproheptadine has been recommended in other similar threads. Unfortunately cypro is unavailable in my country; is there another histamine that would help?

Sounds like die off. I only mentioned oxalate because I used to take oil of oregano pills every day and would get bad stomach cramping and cystitis and I am curious as to the oxalate connection. I still don’t know for sure, but when I began researching oxalates a oregano oil kept popping up on the “high” lists.

 

[Lollipop2]

Hi

Hello @Lollipop2, thanks for your suggestions! I ordered Enzynatica digest gold and I will receive it tomorrow. It is higher in dosage but I will start with 1/4 caps per meal I think..

You said you basically cured all your symptoms. Did you have also systemic symptoms or just relative to GI?

Hi @Jeemmy, yes I have - mostly GI problems but also some estrogen related age problems. I have those under control with some NDT - Tyromax and Cortnon - which is progesterone/DHEA. One other thing that I started recently (~two months) was going low oxalate. This also really helped sort of all over well being and maybe even the GI a bit. Check out the “Oxalate Toxicity” thread.

 

[Lollipop2]

Thanks. I doubt two drops of the essential oil would have so much oxalates as to have an immediate effect, though.

I'm usually pretty skeptic about anything related to "detox" or "you'll feel worse before you feel better" treatments but at least the Herxheimer reaction seems to be a legit thing:

What Are the Die-Off Symptoms of Candida?

My symptoms were: fatigue, headache, bloating, digestive issues, skin itching, blurred vision, and an enlarged lymph node on the neck. Possibly a fever, but I didn't measure my temps.

I've taken aspirin and acticated charcoal to reduce the symptoms, and I know cyproheptadine has been recommended in other similar threads. Unfortunately cypro is unavailable in my country; is there another histamine that would help?

I think you are correct about the oregano oil. Supposedly there is no oxalate in the oils of the plant nor in the extracts.

Sounds like a flu

 

[Lollipop2]

Sounds like die off. I only mentioned oxalate because I used to take oil of oregano pills every day and would get bad stomach cramping and cystitis and I am curious as to the oxalate connection. I still don’t know for sure, but when I began researching oxalates a oregano oil kept popping up on the “high” lists.

They say the oil does not contain the oxalates. By they I mean Susan Owens who rightfully is probably the world’s top authority. She has done the most research.

 

[LUH 3417]

They say the oil does not contain the oxalates. By they I mean Susan Owens who rightfully is probably the world’s top authority. She has done the most research.

You know what they say about authorities. Just kidding. Thank you.

 

[Lollipop2]

You know what they say about authorities. Just kidding. Thank you.

Right?!?! But she has lab tested the oils. At some point we have to go with that knowledge base unless we have the resources to lab test ourselves.

 

[LUH 3417]

Right?!?! But she has lab tested the oils. At some point we have to go with that knowledge base unless we have the resources to lab test ourselves.

That’s good to know. Seems like there is a lot of variability on the web when it comes to high/low oxalate foods.