Fatal Salicylate Poisoning after Topical Application

[Nokoni]

we are all dancing

And the pleasure was all mine.

 

[cjm]

Whoops! Pardon me for stepping on your toes, lol.

Truly, it's my bad. I edit like a maniac.

Forget about Toes, we are all dancing.... .

I'm bold enough to blow you and Nokoni a kiss.

 

[cjm]

I was more curious to see if there is an issue with bringing (with DMSO or similar) essential oils through the skin may cause negative issues.

Okay, you've caught me, no notes. It puts the DMSO on the list.

We gotta look at Vaseline Intensive Care

"Ingredients​

Water (Aqua), Glycerin, Stearic Acid, Isopropyl Palmitate, Glycol Stearate, Peg-100 Stearate, Mineral Oil, Dimethicone, Glyceryl Stearate, Petrolatum, Cetyl Alcohol, Phenoxyethanol, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Methylparaben, Triethanolamine, Propylparaben, Stearamide Amp, Disodium Edta, Isopropyl Myristate, Cedrol." Vaseline Intensive Care Body Lotion for Dry Skin Advanced Repair | Amazon

I see a familiar name (that I know of only by accident): "Glycol stearate (glycol monostearate or ethylene glycol monostearate."

Glycol stearate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Nokoni]

I'm bold enough to blow you and Nokoni a kiss.

Bold indeed. Typical baseball player.

 

[cjm]

Bold indeed. Typical baseball player.

Yes, at heart, and since playing baseball didn't pan out for me, I've turned to typing whatever I want into the search engines at PubMed and Sci-Hub and flirting with the forum.

 

[Nokoni]

Yes, at heart, and since playing baseball didn't pan out for me, I've turned to typing whatever I want into the search engines at PubMed and Sci-Hub and flirting with the forum.

lolol

 

[cjm]

I was more curious to see if there is an issue with bringing (with DMSO or similar) essential oils through the skin may cause negative issues.

---I found one study where they prepared 51 samples of essential oils for testing, all of them in DMSO. There was no explanation for why DMSO was used. Just don’t use it in your cinnamon massage oil, whatever you do:

“The activity of cinnamon oil against S. cerevisiae was markedly increased in the absence of DMSO” Antimicrobial action of essential oils : the effect of dimethylsulphoxide on the activity of cinnamon oil (Hili et al., 1997).

---Otherwise, generally speaking, you need a lot of DMSO to achieve "optimum efficacy" and it tends to burn ze skin:

“co-solvents containing >60% DMSO are needed for optimum enhancement efficacy… at these relatively high concentrations DMSO can cause erythema and wheals of the stratum corneum and may denature some proteins. Studies performed over 40 years ago on healthy volunteers painted with 90% DMSO twice daily for 3 weeks resulted in erythema, scaling, contact uticaria, stinging and burning sensations and several volunteers developed systemic symptoms” Topical Pharmacology and Toxicology of Dimethyl Sulfoxide – Part 1 (Kligman, 1965)

—But it has a quick action:

“Data presented above clearly indicate that dimethyl sulfoxide acts almost instantly, certainly before inflammatory changes could come into play to debauch the horny layer. For instance, penetration of the fluorescent dye TCSA is complete in one minute.” Ibid.

“DMSO works rapidly as a penetration enhancer—spillage of the material onto the skin can be tasted in the mouth within seconds.” Penetration enhancers (Williams & Barry, 2003)

—Bonus, ibid.:

“In Vivo Penetration of Testosterone [propionate]…90% dimethyl sulfoxide enables 34% penetration in 24 hours”

—Double bonus, coming full circle: bugs are dying for it:

“Essential oils mixed with a non-toxic emulsifying agent, dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO), more easily penetrated the waxy insect cuticle.” Insecticidal activity of 23 essential oils and their major compounds against adult Lipaphis pseudobrassicae (Davis) (Aphididae: Homoptera) (Sampson et al., 2005)

That's all I got.

 

[cjm]

We gotta look at Vaseline Intensive Care

Isopropyl Palmitate

--Ingredient #4 in Vaseline, “model enhancer” for synth skin:

Investigation of Effect of Isopropyl Palmitate on Drug Release from Transdermal Patch and Molecular Dynamics Study (Ruan et al. 2019)

“Zolmitriptan (ZOL) was used as a model drug and isopropyl palmitate (IPP) was used as a model enhancer to investigate drug release behaviors in pressure-sensitive adhesives (PSAs).”

“The hydroxyl PSAs are used as the model adhesive matrix, with their molecular structures shown in Fig. 1.”

–No human efficacy studies to be found, just this:

“These studies indicated that the lecithin gel, in particular isopropyl palmitate, affects the stratum corneum lipid organization even after 1-day incubation (FFIR, DSC) [isolated skin, aka in vitro], whereas recent in vivo human skin irritation tests showed no significant irritancy.” Interaction of a lecithin microemulsion gel with human stratum corneum and its effect on transdermal transport (Dreher et al., 1996)

Ite, g'night.

 

[akgrrrl]

@cjm @akgrrrl
Is DMSO safe to use as a 'penetration enhancer' for essential oils application? A number of folks near me are doing this. I take the 'enhancement' aspect of DMSO seriously, therefore I am checking with you two (and anyone else) who has experience. I think it is potentially negative in the extreme, especially for ill and older folks. I noticed you both did not mention using it, therefore there must be some reason based on knowledge or experience.

Can you recommend (easily available) safe solvents for skin? MCT oil seems to be neutral. Oily but sticky. Thanks.

My personal experience with DMSO is only using it with Magnesium Oil. Or alone, for muscle injury, ruptured disc, etc.. . Never had an issue as long as I dilute it with a little water, so say 75-80% DMSO, then no skin rashes for me.

And I must say it is great to see such Collaboration on here. Carry on.

I love dmso.
You are right, we didnt really expand on the oil-as-precursor to compounds. I do use coconut oil and also a 6times filtered veg oil which is very neutral, and organic, and I have a large bottle of hemp oil in the fridge. Its all about the purpose and intent on the healing and the compounds you are using. Yeah dmso doesnt smell so nice, but it penetrates with purpose as you point out. I figure if its good enough for million dollar racehorses...

 

[AlaskaJono]

I guess I have just been wary when I hear of peeps near me doing dmso before essential oil of frankincense on their temples, for headaches. They didn't die, so ... . DMSO is amazing. ;-)

 

[cjm]

I figure if its good enough for million dollar racehorses...

The way we treat our pets is almost a starting point for how we should treat humans. There are differences but my God, the compassion involved in animal care. As I write this, someone is reading saying "racehorse abuse is rampant!" Idk, people can and do treat other people like less than animals.

 

[Nokoni]

90% DMSO twice daily for 3 weeks resulted in erythema, scaling, contact uticaria, stinging and burning sensations

Another effect from such dosing is swelling. At one time I was using DMSO for something, probably knees, and thought maybe using it undiluted would be good. So I put it full strength out of the bottle in my palm (with a dropper? not sure how – it was a few years ago) and applied it. Didn't seem to have any negatives so I continued doing it. It took a week or two before I noticed that the hand I was using was oddly swollen, like I'd spent my life as a one-handed farmer. If you know the coomer meme, like that guy, only just my hand. There was no pain or irritation (the skin of the palm is different, called glabrous skin, so maybe that's why), but it was a little disconcerting and it looked odd for sure. So I stopped doing that and a couple weeks later it was back to normal, mirabile dictu. (Btw, learned about glabrous skin and much other cool stuff from this book: Amazon product ASIN B00S05PVF6View: https://www.amazon.com/Touch-Science-Hand-Heart-Mind/dp/B00S05PVF6
)

 

[cjm]

like I'd spent my life as a one-handed farmer.

Before I had read the next sentence I thought, I really want to know more about this guy.

Btw, learned about glabrous skin and much other cool stuff from this book:

Alley-oop! A one-handed farmer can still plant seeds. Football metaphor.

 

[Nokoni]

Before I had read the next sentence I thought, I really want to know more about this guy.



Alley-oop! A one-handed farmer can still plant seeds. Football metaphor.

Farm boys got like mitts on the ends of their arms. They been working. Used to be anyway. Maybe with combines and what not it's different today. Doing leg presses 50 years ago at Penn State, farm boy asks can he work in. Sits down in the machine, does a few, goes around to reset the key to the bottom of the stack and does some more. Unbelievable. Just a regular dude. "How'd you get such strong legs?" "I dunno, walk a lot I guess." Lol.

 

[cjm]

Amazon product ASIN B00S05PVF6View: https://www.amazon.com/Touch-Science-Hand-Heart-Mind/dp/B00S05PVF6

How do you like John Pruden as a narrator? I need to be serenaded by my audio books.

 

[Nokoni]

How do you like John Pruden as a narrator? I need to be serenaded by my audio books.

No experience with audio books. Retirees don't spend much time commuting so I just read them on my screen.

 

[cjm]

Farm boys got like mitts on the ends of their arms. They been working. Used to be anyway. Maybe with combines and what not it's different today. Doing leg presses 50 years ago at Penn State, farm boy asks can he work in. Sits down in the machine, does a few, goes around to reset the key to the bottom of the stack and does some more. Unbelievable. Just a regular dude. "How'd you get such strong legs?" "I dunno, walk a lot I guess." Lol.

The job is the gym. Beach Muscles can't grok it.

One reason I am enjoying the electrical work is manual labor. I'm not wiring yet and there's plenty of bone-shaking drilling to do. And when you've sat in a chair through 16 years of school and 10 years of office work, walking in steel toe boots is almost as much as I can chew, let alone carrying equipment up stairs.

 

[cjm]

No experience with audio books. Retirees don't spend much time commuting so I just read them on my screen.

I thought you had betrayed yourself and sent the Audible version. No mystery to be unraveled here (sigh)

 

[Nokoni]

The job is the gym. Beach Muscles can't grok it.

One reason I am enjoying the electrical work is manual labor. I'm not wiring yet and there's plenty of bone-shaking drilling to do. And when you've sat in a chair through 16 years of school and 10 years of office work, walking in steel toe boots is almost as much as I can chew, let alone carrying equipment up stairs.

They've made office work so pozzed up. I wish I'd learned to weld instead. I knew a few years early on that were cool – probably like Mad Men, though I never watched that – but our overlords totally wrecked it. Along with everything else. The Ruskies and Chinese are going to eat our lunch. They don't do that BS. I told my son he should learn to speak Russian, lol.

 

[cjm]

View: Amazon product ASIN B00S05PVF6View: https://www.amazon.com/Touch-Science-Hand-Heart-Mind/dp/B00S05PVF6

Not to spam or litter but in light of Touch, I've been remiss not to mention a dusty, unread book on my shelf called Touching.

Amazon product ASIN 0060960280View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060960280