Got Prescribed Ciprofloxacin Today, What To Do?

[Peata]

[QUOTE="
What was your experience with Levo? Have heard from others here to avoid fluoroquinolones at any cost, don't know why exactly, except based on their personal experiences. Anyway, glad to hear you're better with DIY![/QUOTE]

I didn't take it. I had the doctor prescribe something else. If you do a web search on those medications, you'll see a lot of testimonials of how they messed people up.

 

[Owen B]

[QUOTE="
What was your experience with Levo? Have heard from others here to avoid fluoroquinolones at any cost, don't know why exactly, except based on their personal experiences. Anyway, glad to hear you're better with DIY!

I didn't take it. I had the doctor prescribe something else. If you do a web search on those medications, you'll see a lot of testimonials of how they messed people up.[/QUOTE]
Search this forum and you'll find plenty of studies on these antibiotics. Just search "Cipro toxicity" or "flouroquinolone toxicity".

 

[Owen B]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and Insights. Might I ask, did they say yours was bladder or prostate-sourced? Urine cultures, blood cultures done?

I'm sure that it wasn't prostate or bladder sourced, if I understand that right. It was a UTI. Bladder, urethera but nothing in the prostate itself. The urine test showed staph.

 

[Kray]

I'm sure that it wasn't prostate or bladder sourced, if I understand that right. It was a UTI. Bladder, urethera but nothing in the prostate itself. The urine test showed staph.

As I was just informed by our doctor, germ in men usually starts from prostate, then goes into bladder, anatomically and mechanically speaking.

 

[Owen B]

As I was just informed by our doctor, germ in men usually starts from prostate, then goes into bladder, anatomically and mechanically speaking.

sorry your husband is having such a problem, but it sounds like his doctors are all over the map. First, they say they don't know how it got "into his blood" , then they say it came from the prostate.

My understanding of prostatitis is that it is primarily an inflammation of the prostate, not necessarily an infection that somehow arises in the prostate alone. It occurs when bacteria from the urine back up into the prostate via the prostatic ducts. That could cause an inflammation in the prostate in the absence of an bacterial infection in the urinary tract.

But since he did test positive for e. coli, the problem sounds like it is "in the blood", not necessarily "in the prostate". (Though his prostate still could be affected).

Men don't usually get UTIs and so the question remains for your husband how "it got into the blood". I have the same question. My urologist could not explain it.

My explanation was originally that it was caused by an irritation of the bladder. But the urologist said that was unlikely.

Now looking back at the time I was going through all this, I remember that I was experimenting with creatine. I did not like the experience at all even though it was pretty good psychologically. I also noticed that it made me feel ill in my gut, a very unsettling, queasy feeling I could not explain.

After reading up on creatine afterwards I was horrified to learn that it's effect on the intestines mimics the effects of intense, prolonged exercise. That's bad because it means that intestinal fluids are being pulled away from the intestinal wall making it much easier for bacteria to pass into the blood. I'm convinced now that's how I got the UTI.

It's quite possible that something similar happened with your husband. The health of the gut is very important. You don't want to overload it with food that's difficult to digest or overload it with intense, prolonged exercise.

Hope everything works out.

 

[Kray]

sorry your husband is having such a problem, but it sounds like his doctors are all over the map. First, they say they don't know how it got "into his blood" , then they say it came from the prostate.

My understanding of prostatitis is that it is primarily an inflammation of the prostate, not necessarily an infection that somehow arises in the prostate alone. It occurs when bacteria from the urine back up into the prostate via the prostatic ducts. That could cause an inflammation in the prostate in the absence of an bacterial infection in the urinary tract.

But since he did test positive for e. coli, the problem sounds like it is "in the blood", not necessarily "in the prostate". (Though his prostate still could be affected).

Men don't usually get UTIs and so the question remains for your husband how "it got into the blood". I have the same question. My urologist could not explain it.

My explanation was originally that it was caused by an irritation of the bladder. But the urologist said that was unlikely.

Now looking back at the time I was going through all this, I remember that I was experimenting with creatine. I did not like the experience at all even though it was pretty good psychologically. I also noticed that it made me feel ill in my gut, a very unsettling, queasy feeling I could not explain.

After reading up on creatine afterwards I was horrified to learn that it's effect on the intestines mimics the effects of intense, prolonged exercise. That's bad because it means that intestinal fluids are being pulled away from the intestinal wall making it much easier for bacteria to pass into the blood. I'm convinced now that's how I got the UTI.

It's quite possible that something similar happened with your husband. The health of the gut is very important. You don't want to overload it with food that's difficult to digest or overload it with intense, prolonged exercise.

Hope everything works out.

Owen, great information, thank you.

I think it is difficult to know the point of origin, since the UT system is so closely situated in men between the prostate and bladder. Doctors weren't much help there. Everything they said pointed to the prostate as a source of infection, which is why they want to do 30 days antibiotics. Hard to get to, this drug does the best job.

Like you, we're stumped as to cause. He doesn't do heavy workouts, so that is not likely a factor, nor take creatine. He does do Peaty supplements, like topical steroid, thyroid, pregnenolone. Alcohol a factor? Usually 1 glass of wine with dinner, but not everyday.

Magnesium- could that have an impact on gut wall since the intestine absorbs water? We usually take Mg citrate. I don't know if that form can be irritating to either the gut or bladder, but it does make your colon work! Lately, I switched to liquid MgCl as that is supposed to have many benefits without the side effects of citrate.

I've not ever heard that E.coli could enter blood through GI tract other than food poisoning. He never had any symptoms of diarrhea or food poisoning, but 3 days before he fell sick, we had eaten at a hole-in-the-wall Mexican restaurant- well known for tasty food, but it is "authentic"- from the help to the food served. Is it possible he could have gotten E.coli without GI symptoms, and somehow moved through to the blood? I shared the same meal and didn't have any GI issues either, although I must admit I've had a vague discomfort, almost like a UTI trying to come on, since about the same time. As a precaution for me, and an added help to him, we're both taking d-mannose powder for a while.

I wish we knew for sure. I hate to have him be on such a powerful drug for so long if he really didn't need it, but with confirmed E.coli in the blood seems no other option.

Did you say you were given antibiotics? How was your problem resolved other than discontinuing creatine?

 

[Peata]

Owen, great information, thank you.

I think it is difficult to know the point of origin, since the UT system is so closely situated in men between the prostate and bladder. Doctors weren't much help there. Everything they said pointed to the prostate as a source of infection, which is why they want to do 30 days antibiotics. Hard to get to, this drug does the best job.

Like you, we're stumped as to cause. He doesn't do heavy workouts, so that is not likely a factor, nor take creatine. He does do Peaty supplements, like topical steroid, thyroid, pregnenolone. Alcohol a factor? Usually 1 glass of wine with dinner, but not everyday.

Magnesium- could that have an impact on gut wall since the intestine absorbs water? We usually take Mg citrate. I don't know if that form can be irritating to either the gut or bladder, but it does make your colon work! Lately, I switched to liquid MgCl as that is supposed to have many benefits without the side effects of citrate.

I've not ever heard that E.coli could enter blood through GI tract other than food poisoning. He never had any symptoms of diarrhea or food poisoning, but 3 days before he fell sick, we had eaten at a hole-in-the-wall Mexican restaurant- well known for tasty food, but it is "authentic"- from the help to the food served. Is it possible he could have gotten E.coli without GI symptoms, and somehow moved through to the blood? I shared the same meal and didn't have any GI issues either, although I must admit I've had a vague discomfort, almost like a UTI trying to come on, since about the same time. As a precaution for me, and an added help to him, we're both taking d-mannose powder for a while.

I wish we knew for sure. I hate to have him be on such a powerful drug for so long if he really didn't need it, but with confirmed E.coli in the blood seems no other option.

Did you say you were given antibiotics? How was your problem resolved other than discontinuing creatine?

You might find some more useful information on this site: Functional Performance Systems (FPS) - Strength & Conditioning, Nutrition, and Lifestyle Blog Use the search engine for key words like "sepsis"

 

[Owen B]

Owen, great information, thank you.

I think it is difficult to know the point of origin, since the UT system is so closely situated in men between the prostate and bladder. Doctors weren't much help there. Everything they said pointed to the prostate as a source of infection, which is why they want to do 30 days antibiotics. Hard to get to, this drug does the best job.

Like you, we're stumped as to cause. He doesn't do heavy workouts, so that is not likely a factor, nor take creatine. He does do Peaty supplements, like topical steroid, thyroid, pregnenolone. Alcohol a factor? Usually 1 glass of wine with dinner, but not everyday.

Magnesium- could that have an impact on gut wall since the intestine absorbs water? We usually take Mg citrate. I don't know if that form can be irritating to either the gut or bladder, but it does make your colon work! Lately, I switched to liquid MgCl as that is supposed to have many benefits without the side effects of citrate.

I've not ever heard that E.coli could enter blood through GI tract other than food poisoning. He never had any symptoms of diarrhea or food poisoning, but 3 days before he fell sick, we had eaten at a hole-in-the-wall Mexican restaurant- well known for tasty food, but it is "authentic"- from the help to the food served. Is it possible he could have gotten E.coli without GI symptoms, and somehow moved through to the blood? I shared the same meal and didn't have any GI issues either, although I must admit I've had a vague discomfort, almost like a UTI trying to come on, since about the same time. As a precaution for me, and an added help to him, we're both taking d-mannose powder for a while.

I wish we knew for sure. I hate to have him be on such a powerful drug for so long if he really didn't need it, but with confirmed E.coli in the blood seems no other option.

Did you say you were given antibiotics? How was your problem resolved other than discontinuing creatine?

I took the Cipro for 14 days, the UTI disappeared but it took 6-8 weeks for the side effects of the Cipro to wear off.

There's tons of info on the Forum about gut health and bacterial infections, especially endotoxin. Just search those terms and you'll find a lot of good info.

And Peata is right, click on the Functional Performance links on the first page and start looking for articles on endotoxin. I'm sure there's one there about the effects of endurance training and endotoxin poisoning. It's a Townsend Letter. Like I said, indigestible foods over time make the intestinal wall more permeable. Same effects as endurance training.

I honestly don't know a thing about food poisoning and how it works and if it was a factor there with your husband.

And I'm really dubious about the business of the infection being "in the prostate". That sounds like typical medical model mythologizing. The problem is mysteriously "in" something. They don't know the answer.

 

[Kray]

I took the Cipro for 14 days, the UTI disappeared but it took 6-8 weeks for the side effects of the Cipro to wear off.

There's tons of info on the Forum about gut health and bacterial infections, especially endotoxin. Just search those terms and you'll find a lot of good info.

And Peata is right, click on the Functional Performance links on the first page and start looking for articles on endotoxin. I'm sure there's one there about the effects of endurance training and endotoxin poisoning. It's a Townsend Letter. Like I said, indigestible foods over time make the intestinal wall more permeable. Same effects as endurance training.

I honestly don't know a thing about food poisoning and how it works and if it was a factor there with your husband.

And I'm really dubious about the business of the infection being "in the prostate". That sounds like typical medical model mythologizing. The problem is mysteriously "in" something. They don't know the answer.

F/u today with new doctor, wants total 14 days Cipro, down from 30 days. Dr. wasn't convinced it was a case of prostatitis as a source of infection, based on history. Whether it was endotoxin overload from gut (no symptoms, however) or a secondary infection from a virus, he said is hard to know, but both urine and blood tested positive for e.coli, so as precaution he wants to make sure any residual bug is eradicated. He doesn't think my husband really has prostate problems, per se, but said in acute bladder infections, prostate is usually involved. Further f/u in 2 weeks with urinalysis.

Fyi- Dr Peat was kind enough to respond to an email as to protective measures against antibiotic use; here is his response:

Excessive use of any antibiotic can cause a vitamin K deficiency by killing intestinal bacteria. B12 might be affected too.

So far, he's been taking Bio-K daily, as well as Kuinone. May add B-12 supplement for a time.

Thanks for sharing your insights and experience with Cipro.

I got to thinking if another safeguard might be to supplement iodide for a while. I know Peat doesn't recommend high doses, but after antibiotics are finished, would a short course of iodide help to against any fluoride in the system? Is there something that is known to remove fluoride?

Thanks again-

 

[Hitoshi]

New Study Finds that Ciprofloxacin Depletes Mitochondrial DNA

 

[Ledo]

From a conversation:

"Hey, I just read this old post of yours and have a friend going though a very similar situation, basically lower left side pain, high WBC, white mucus like stuff attached to stools, etc. I was wondering if these symptoms ended up being resolved and how you went about it? Thanks"

I ended up taking 3 days of the prescribed 5 day course of ciprofloxacin. Apparently this was enough to quell the "infection" as lab numbers corrected to all in range on the WBC.

The symptoms of pain centering around the (lower left side) pancreas/spleen area are still present if I don't take aspirin. Aspirin, 325 mg dose daily completely attenuates any pain at the onset of eating and during early morning where burning could occur.

Stool with white mucous stuff, floating is still present and mostly unchanged in these four years. Amylase and Lipase are lower end of the range, however I have not supplemented these to see if they impact digestion quality or pancreatic sufficiency.

I didn't prior or during the last 4 years have any diabetic or blood sugar regulation problems even during days the morning burning occurred. I did and still do check with glucose test strips, but like I said the pain is completely taken care of by aspirin use. I don't know if the pancreas is being damaged over time though, I guess that's possible and its conceivable that type1 diabetes may develop. Maybe its also possible the aspirin acts as an anti inflammatory, anti-septic, anti-viral, blood thinner keeping an infection or infection damage at bay.

Cancer or tumor development is a possibility. Ultrasounds have been clear up to this point. A physical is due this Oct and if bloodwork is normal I wonder if my GP will order another ultrasound.

In summary I think the aspirin may have very positive even curative type benefits. I hope so and am counting it being more than pain relief. The only other thing I do really is eat peaty including staying away from starch relying instead on mostly orange juice 1 quart, banana, white sugar. This helps the left side area I believe with reduced insulin load on the pancreas.

Going forward I would like to thin the blood with vitamin E. I have heard from @haidut that oncologist find treating pancreatic cancer difficult due to poor profusion of blood supply to the organ. This may be one of aspirin's biggest benefits for me and I can actually see my blood get thinner when I take it. It is in my opinion too viscous otherwise. Is fair to say at this point I have not gone supplement crazy and probably time to step that up.

The covid saga has at least produced a heightened way of looking at infection and a whole host of substances to do so. @bzmazu has been talking artimisen and its derivatives for treating cancer and the prostate. There are others.

And perhaps the most foundational approach is reestablishing oxidative phosphorylation at the cellular level. Peat is of course dedicated to this and haidut has a pharmacopeia that may help energy at the cellular level resolve tissue problems. @gaze