High Protein Is Officially Anti-Peat As Ray Became A Low Protein Advocate In His Final Years (Video Jun 24, 2022)

[Nebula]

@Nebula

I don't know. My grandma lived until 93, and she didn't eat anything special.

Yup we know female hormones and body size are generally more geared towards a longer lifespan. My grandma lived to 86 frying a lot of things in Crisco.

 

[Sebastian B]

@Nebula

She was about 4 feet 10 inches tall.

 

[Clyde]

I don't agree with this. Most famous people are self-absorbed and instantly announce their ideas. Ray was certainly an outlier.

That's true for many, but certainly not for Ray Peat. He was always honest with what he was doing, sharing his views to inspire others to look for answers themselves.

Yes There Is A Ms. Peat

Katherine I knew it. Together 40 years he says. 33:57 I knew he had to be married. His overall satisfaction with his life, and his use of "we" when discussing dietary stuff...I knew it I knew it.

raypeatforum.com

Even long term fans like ecstatic hamster didn't know RP was married for 40 years and a lot of members thought he was a hermit. He kept some things to himself.

I'm a fan of his but I doubt he survived to 86 on a bizarre diet of 1% milk, oj and coconut oil ice cream. I agree with charlie that a diet like that is a toxic joke and I appreciate that RP wanted to let his followers know before leaving this earth that he no longer thought people should eat this way.

I know you're being sarcastic but I still wanted say my peace. Thanks mosaic01:)

 

[oxphoser]

Yes exactly. Dr. Peat was sick and I’m sure knew he was sick. Lowering protein was an attempt to remediate some of his health problems, not a general recommendation.

I find it difficult to have less than 60 - 80g protein per day, but if I could keep it to 60 I would. I think Dr. Peat didn’t appreciate the importance of avoiding methionine enough because low methionine can help almost all health problems and help even slow down cancer. And it is a diet that is essentially heavy on plants, not dairy or other animal products.

I agree. I think Dr Peat was very sick in 2022 and made the changes in his diet as an attempt to save his failing health. Any changes he made in 2022 about diet was to serve that end. Sadly it didn’t work. I think if he had gotten better he might have returned the high fruit, milk, oj, adequate protein diet we which he so consistently and unwaveringly recommended in his previous 30+ years of diet advice.

 

[Mary Lyn]

You don't make drastic changes to diet at that age (it is very stressful to do so) unless you are very ill indeed. I am 74 so speak with knowledge on the subject.

 

[mosaic01]

I know you're being sarcastic but I still wanted say my peace. Thanks mosaic01:)

I'm not sarcastic. Being honest and keeping some things private are not mutually exclusive.

He had a somewhat autistic personality and was not aware of the effects of the things he said. When someone showed him some of the online communities that had developed in his name, he was shocked a bit, for example. He had good intentions but in the end he was not able to communicate in terms of practical application.

 

[EustaceBagge]

I'm a fan of his but I doubt he survived to 86 on a bizarre diet of 1% milk, oj and coconut oil ice cream. I agree with charlie that a diet like that is a toxic joke and I appreciate that RP wanted to let his followers know before leaving this earth that he no longer thought people should eat this way.

Where can I read more about the toxicity of diets? That sounds very novel to me. Is there any reason stuff like ice cream or oj is toxic?

 

[lamassu]

Peat's view on protein was a lot more nuanced than this post

 

[oxphoser]

You don't make drastic changes to diet at that age (it is very stressful to do so) unless you are very ill indeed. I am 74 so speak with knowledge on the subject.

I’ve had that thought many times. It must have been a hugh shock to Dr Peat’s system to make such a drastic change to his diet. He must have been very sick to do so. One of the things I’ve always liked about Dr Peat was his attention to stress to the system. That’s why he wasn’t for fasting, or spicy food, or vigorous exercise- too much stress.

 

[Mary Lyn]

I’ve had that thought many times. It must have been a hugh shock to Dr Peat’s system to make such a drastic change to his diet. He must have been very sick to do so. One of the things I’ve always liked about Dr Peat was his attention to stress to the system. That’s why he wasn’t for fasting, or spicy food, or vigorous exercise- too much stress.

Yes he would have been aware of the stress of such a change but had to do it anyway, not as an experiment, but a means to reduce his suffering. I agree about an autistic personality type in him also shown in his brilliance. Sad he missed the hypervitaminosis A.

 

[Clyde]

Where can I read more about the toxicity of diets? That sounds very novel to me. Is there any reason stuff like ice cream or oj is toxic?

Any diet not proven to keep populations healthy over generations is probably toxic. Getting a large percentage of calories from hydrogenated coconut oil ice cream is risky because there is no evidence it can be a large part of a successful human diet.

Over time frequent oj will erode your teeth from what I've heard. I suppose you could say oj is toxic to teeth. There is at least some evidence that drinking lots of fructose can be liver toxic and oj has lots of fructose. Drinking oj is worse than eating oranges bc too much fructose reaches the liver too quickly when it's in a liquid form according to Richard Johnson. But I would ignore the theoretical case against oj if there were traditional diets where oj made a large percentage of calories.

It is my understanding the body has a hard time tracking liquid calories from milk, oj and sugared coffee which can cause weight gain making these foods toxic to your body composition. This is also theoretical though. Maybe there are healthy societies that drink most of their calories but I don't know any. Some cultures get lots of calories from bear and wine.

People are very tough and can survive on almost anything if they're fit and active without any underlying health problems but sick and/or older and/or sedentary people should certainly avoid being injured by diets with no history of societies being successful living on them. It's a bad gamble to spend your life on diets created using theoretical models from rodent/cell culture studies when you have healthy human populations to learn from.

 

[Clyde]

I'm not sarcastic. Being honest and keeping some things private are not mutually exclusive.

He had a somewhat autistic personality and was not aware of the effects of the things he said. When someone showed him some of the online communities that had developed in his name, he was shocked a bit, for example. He had good intentions but in the end he was not able to communicate in terms of practical application.

Thanks. I didn't know that about him.

 

[Clyde]

Some cultures get lots of calories from bear and wine.

beer and wine lol

 

[mattmm24]

I thought this was a big deal and should have been nailed down on the rpf.

Dr. Ray Peat denounced a high protein diet in his last 4 or 5 interviews. He switched from recommending at least 80-100 grams (or more) to about 50 grams per 2500 calories and thought his high protein diet was lowering his metabolism and stimulating mtor which accelerates aging.

Danny Roddy pins Ray down on his shift:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZCgpw6_sRA

Meat is high in phosphorus. Low in calcium. I am not surprised he did this. The calcium/phosphorus ratio might have been the most important ideas he talked about. Most people don’t realize to much phosphorus keeps your body too stimulated. And we aren’t eating meat like our ancestors. They ate everything.

 

[lamassu]

Parathyroid Hormone's Role and Effects in Aging
"Phosphate, which predominates in grains, beans, nuts, meats, and fish, increases our production of parathyroid hormone, while calcium and magnesium inhibit its production. This hormone, which increases with age, suppresses immunity, and in excess it causes insomnia, seizures, dementia, psychosis, cancer, heart disease, respiratory distress and pulmonary hypertension, osteoporosis, sarcopenia, histamine release, inflammation and soft tissue calcification, and many other problems."

- September 2017 - Ray Peat's Newsletter

 

[mosaic01]

"Phosphate, which predominates in grains, beans, nuts, meats, and fish, increases our production of parathyroid hormone, while calcium and magnesium inhibit its production. This hormone, which increases with age, suppresses immunity, and in excess it causes insomnia, seizures, dementia, psychosis, cancer, heart disease, respiratory distress and pulmonary hypertension, osteoporosis, sarcopenia, histamine release, inflammation and soft tissue calcification, and many other problems."

It sounds nice in theory, but there is no empirical evidence that people on a high phosphate, low calcium diet have high PTH.

A whole-foods diet that includes grains, beans, meat is extremely high in protective minerals like potassium and magnesium.

Our ancestors lived off rainwater (no minerals) and meat, beans, grains, fruits, vegetables. Dairy was peasant-food. Cheap, liquid meat.

The truth is that elevated serum phosphate increases PTH. But normal kidney function prevents phosphate from increasing in the serum. High PTH is a marker of kidney impairment.

Thus it is actually good kidney function that Peat was looking for, not high milk consumption.*

Potassium, magnesium, sodium and a diet low in toxins promote good kidney function and low PTH.

*Ironically, milk is high in phosphate.

 

[Abmartich]

I don't agree with this. Most famous people are self-absorbed and instantly announce their ideas. Ray was certainly an outlier. I also do not agree with your stance on "traditional diets", as I think 0.8g/kg protein is minimum for anyone, and for unhealthy people even more as they are more catabolic less anabolic. Isn't that also the RDA? Now just think about how little people meet that quota, except the fat ones. Also think about how the rda of a government that is designed to keep you sick is so high. This is because people that were better off in the past usually ate even more than that.

What I find to be the case, when growing up and also now, is that I have very little appetite for protein. This coincides with my stress: I am/was basically 24/7 in fight-or-flight, mainly thanks to my less than ideal childhood. I stopped this 1-2 years ago and am making great progress in being more calm, and now I find my appetite working properly and desiring protein. So in this case I think that a stressed body doesn't really want protein, but what if one of the causes of stress is a low-protein diet?

Now when I desire carbs but at the same time don't want to eat any carbs, that means I want protein and surely enough, once I have the protein on a plate and I take a bite out of it I really, really like the taste.

I totally agree with you and it matches my experience. For example, when I am very stressed I feel like I need some type of quick energy (Carbohydrates) and I cannot tolerate very fatty foods like meat. Then when I'm relaxing I feel like a good cut of meat.

The same thing happens with athletes. An athlete after training will not eat a portion of meat. Rather, he will drink a high-carbohydrate drink to replenish his condition.