High Protein Is Officially Anti-Peat As Ray Became A Low Protein Advocate In His Final Years (Video Jun 24, 2022)

[Clyde]

I thought this was a big deal and should have been nailed down on the rpf.

Dr. Ray Peat denounced a high protein diet in his last 4 or 5 interviews. He switched from recommending at least 80-100 grams (or more) to about 50 grams per 2500 calories and thought his high protein diet was lowering his metabolism and stimulating mtor which accelerates aging.

Danny Roddy pins Ray down on his shift:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZCgpw6_sRA

 

[Nik665]

I thought this was a big deal and should have been nailed down on the rpf.

Dr. Ray Peat denounced a high protein diet in his last 4 or 5 interviews. He switched from recommending at least 80-100 grams (or more) to about 50 grams per 2500 calories and thought his high protein diet was lowering his metabolism and stimulating mtor which accelerates aging.

Danny Roddy pins Ray down on his shift:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZCgpw6_sRA

What’s interesting is that many high carb vegans have been saying this for years

 

[mosaic01]

He also introduced oats, seemingly reverting many of his stances that are still prevalent in the community (persorption, starch feeding bacteria, extreme PUFA avoidance). 100g oats have 2.3g PUFA.

At the end of one's life, many people start breaking down, as the body gets weaker and can no longer suppress the toxicity. His experimentations were likely meant to control symptoms that started appearing. Protein is more stressful for the liver to metabolize in contrast to carbs, and oats bind to bile.

 

[Clyde]

At 40min he mentions he's eating all sorts of vegetables. He replaced dairy calories with fruit, vegetables, oats etc because of the lower protein. Imo he rejected the so called "Ray Peat diet" in these interviews and as Nick665 said his new diet is practically vegan and like mosaic01 mentioned he's not as militant about pufa.

The biggest deal to me was that he changed his position on a dairy based diet.

Premiered Jun 16, 2022

View: https://youtu.be/495CtgExBXE?t=761

 

[mosaic01]

He replaced dairy calories with fruit, vegetables, oats etc because of the lower protein. Imo he rejected the so called "Ray Peat diet" in these interviews and as Nick665 said his new diet is practically vegan and like mosaic01 mentioned he's not as militant about pufa.

Very interesting. It basically confirms that his diet was always just his personal way to make some of his symptoms disappear. It was neither scientific, nor something anyone should see as a template.

And now the community worships a model of a diet that even the late Peat himself rejected, quite ridiculous.

 

[RealNeat]

I think if you listen to this podcast it provides the context in which all variations of Rays views can be true. Sometimes longevity dietary advice does not align with quality of life dietary advice, and they don't have to. I think diet needs to change as we age and we surpass/ enter certain thresholds of risk.

CM Starts the podcast off with a logical view on low protein and longevity
View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Qw1Hd2AEO8XxMUTsOOCdp?si=9lgfLfJpRMiFr8GgB32bbA

 

[charlie]

I think diet needs to change as we age and we surpass/ enter certain thresholds of risk toxicity.

I fixed that for you.

 

[bluewren]

At 40min he mentions he's eating all sorts of vegetables. He replaced dairy calories with fruit, vegetables, oats etc because of the lower protein. Imo he rejected the so called "Ray Peat diet" in these interviews and as Nick665 said his new diet is practically vegan and like mosaic01 mentioned he's not as militant about pufa.

The biggest deal to me was that he changed his position on a dairy based diet.

Premiered Jun 16, 2022

View: https://youtu.be/495CtgExBXE?t=761

The Jodelle clip with Ray is very interesting. Thanks for posting. It's very helpful.

 

[Blossom]

I think if he was concerned about mTOR (which is valid) he started focusing on it too late unfortunately. Attention to mTOR should probably start in middle age if not sooner. I think the low protein in his case (not necessarily the other changes) was probably part of his downfall. Lots of things I’ve read and my personal experience points to mTOR cycling with periods of stimulation being very critical for older adults in preserving muscle mass. It’s a controversial topic and ultimately we all have to do what works best for our personal situation but for a while now and for the foreseeable future I’m on team protein.

 

[Clyde]

He talks about his new diet 5min in with Patrick Timpone (RIP) on March 23, 2022

Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Your Health Questions Answered - March 23, 2022 | One Radio Network

The double bonds in Omega 3’s are anti-thyroid and pro-estrogen. High cortisol and high estrogen cause leaky capillaries. Methionine restriction increases lifespan 40%. Get enough milk when eating…

oneradionetwork.com

 

[Clyde]

I think if he was concerned about mTOR (which is valid) he started focusing on it too late unfortunately. Attention to mTOR should probably start in middle age if not sooner. I think the low protein in his case (not necessarily the other changes) was probably part of his downfall. Lots of things I’ve read and my personal experience points to mTOR cycling with periods of stimulation being very critical for older adults in preserving muscle mass. It’s a controversial topic and ultimately we all have to do what works best for our personal situation but for a while now and for the foreseeable future I’m on team protein.

Well said, it's strange he would start worrying about mtor at 84ish. Worrying about frailty makes more sense. Maybe he changed his diet before making the announcement but it doesn't sound like if from the Patrick Timpone interview.

 

[EustaceBagge]

Well said, it's strange he would start worrying about mtor at 84ish. Worrying about frailty makes more sense. Maybe he changed his diet before making the announcement but it doesn't sound like if from the Patrick Timpone interview.

Maybe he was experimenting and didn't want to recommend it to others yet for reasons? It's also weird to assume Ray would instantly endorse his diet he used in old age to everyone, as he used his own diet for many more years with considerable results for himself and for his patients.

Worst case try both diets, but I sincerely believe protein is an overlooked factor in many health conscious people's diets. But then again, I never followed Ray's diet anyway, I just experimented with it and took over the bits that worked well. Broda Barnes for example recommends a higher fat lower carb diet, opposite of Ray's teachings. They are both thyroid gurus.

 

[Nebula]

Don't people in their 80's naturally lower their protein consumption? At that stage in the life cycle high protein is probably not able to be utilized. I don't recall him recommending young people to eat low protein. Although I think even for young people there is a point of diminishing returns. For me its probably around 120 g. More does not bring me more vitality.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yes exactly. Dr. Peat was sick and I’m sure knew he was sick. Lowering protein was an attempt to remediate some of his health problems, not a general recommendation.

I find it difficult to have less than 60 - 80g protein per day, but if I could keep it to 60 I would. I think Dr. Peat didn’t appreciate the importance of avoiding methionine enough because low methionine can help almost all health problems and help even slow down cancer. And it is a diet that is essentially heavy on plants, not dairy or other animal products.

 

[Clyde]

Yes exactly. Dr. Peat was sick and I’m sure knew he was sick. Lowering protein was an attempt to remediate some of his health problems, not a general recommendation.

I also though he might have changed his nutrition in a panic and went to a more traditional diet but he was always passionate about self experimentation so who knows, maybe the experiment made him sick.

With Roddy it sounded like he decided a 50:1 total calorie to protein calorie ratio is better for health and he's only excluding growing children from that formula. Technically it isn't "general" bc he excludes children but it's pretty close.

 

[Clyde]

Maybe he was experimenting and didn't want to recommend it to others yet for reasons? It's also weird to assume Ray would instantly endorse his diet he used in old age to everyone, as he used his own diet for many more years with considerable results for himself and for his patients.

When famous people die there always seems to be lots of interesting questions and I think that's because as performers they usually are not always candid about everything since they feel the need to maintain an image for their audience. Maybe an insider will let us in on the details some day

 

[EustaceBagge]

When famous people die there always seems to be lots of interesting questions and I think that's because as performers they usually are not always candid about everything since they feel the need to maintain an image for their audience. Maybe an insider will let us in on the details some day

I don't agree with this. Most famous people are self-absorbed and instantly announce their ideas. Ray was certainly an outlier. I also do not agree with your stance on "traditional diets", as I think 0.8g/kg protein is minimum for anyone, and for unhealthy people even more as they are more catabolic less anabolic. Isn't that also the RDA? Now just think about how little people meet that quota, except the fat ones. Also think about how the rda of a government that is designed to keep you sick is so high. This is because people that were better off in the past usually ate even more than that.

What I find to be the case, when growing up and also now, is that I have very little appetite for protein. This coincides with my stress: I am/was basically 24/7 in fight-or-flight, mainly thanks to my less than ideal childhood. I stopped this 1-2 years ago and am making great progress in being more calm, and now I find my appetite working properly and desiring protein. So in this case I think that a stressed body doesn't really want protein, but what if one of the causes of stress is a low-protein diet?

Now when I desire carbs but at the same time don't want to eat any carbs, that means I want protein and surely enough, once I have the protein on a plate and I take a bite out of it I really, really like the taste.

 

[mosaic01]

When famous people die there always seems to be lots of interesting questions and I think that's because as performers they usually are not always candid about everything since they feel the need to maintain an image for their audience. Maybe an insider will let us in on the details some day

That's true for many, but certainly not for Ray Peat. He was always honest with what he was doing, sharing his views to inspire others to look for answers themselves.

 

[RealNeat]

I fixed that for you.

If everything was toxicity then one could avoid all toxics and still die of malnutrition, no I don't consider that fixed.

 

[Sebastian B]

I feel best consuming around 150 to 200 grams of protein per day.