High Sedentary Heart Rate and Hot Flashes (Guy)

[Jennifer]

That sounds like awesome set up, with the farmers skimming your goat milk every week Jennifer! I’m always impressed by your resourcefulness and experimental mindset with things — finding the right fruit for juicing, skimming the goat milk on your own, experimenting with various thyroid types. It inspires me to keep trying new things too. I hope everything is still going well with the coffee! Are you still drinking it?

For a few days I tried using a spigot for my goat milk, just drinking from below the cream line, but I began not to feel as good, with a coated tongue, low deep sleep, and tachycardia/hot flashes again. So I added more salty masa chips, magnesium bicarbonate water, and went back to whole raw goat milk, and the problem went away. I love drinking whole raw goat milk! It makes me feel so nourished! I’m a bit nervous that I’ll get fat if I keep drinking three quarts of it per day, but I don’t want to give it up, so instead I’ve been walking and lifting weights to help offset any fat gain I get from it. We will see.

Thank you for that, Tyler! :) Yep, I’m still drinking coffee, and I’m loving how it’s making me feel. I’ve been so stickin’ happy and full of energy and I’m even drinking cow’s milk now without issue. Right now I’m experimenting with using different liquids for cold brewing. So far I’ve tried cold brewing directly in the milk, with raw Thai coconut water and with the Gerolsteiner sparkling water—I figured the latter two would provide extra minerals. Brewing in the milk made for a more concentrated brew, but I think I prefer brewing with the coconut water for the extra sweetness it imparts or the Gerolsteiner for the CO2 and its high calcium content—I figure the calcium helps to balance out some of the phosphorous in the coffee beans. I would like to try brewing green coffee beans, but I’m not sure if they’re okay from a Peaty standpoint. I tried searching the forum, but didn’t find much.

That’s good that you’ve gone back to drinking the milk with its fat then, since it clearly treats you better. As far as gaining fat from it, if you’re taking in the same amount of calories you were sans full-fat, I doubt your body fat will increase much, if at all. When Ray talks about whole milk being fattening, I think he means the extra fat calories are fattening, not the fat itself? Plus, the fat in goat’s milk is mainly saturated—I think 3 liters only comes out to around 4 grams of PUFA. I know we all have our own tissue strengths and weaknesses but if this helps ease your fear any, I consumed as much full-fat dairy as you when my doctor had me on that high-fat, dairy-based diet after fracturing and I was 4 lbs lighter then—about 95 lbs—so it definitely didn’t make me fat. My body became quite “ripped”, actually—I received comments from people about my muscle definition—and that’s when I was relearning how to walk so it certainly wasn’t a result of being active. My bone density also improved by 50% during that time so it seems to me the full-fat dairy was nourishing and based on your experience with it, I suspect it’s nourishing for you, as well.

 

[Vileplume]

Thank you for that, Tyler! :) Yep, I’m still drinking coffee, and I’m loving how it’s making me feel. I’ve been so stickin’ happy and full of energy and I’m even drinking cow’s milk now without issue. Right now I’m experimenting with using different liquids for cold brewing. So far I’ve tried cold brewing directly in the milk, with raw Thai coconut water and with the Gerolsteiner sparkling water—I figured the latter two would provide extra minerals. Brewing in the milk made for a more concentrated brew, but I think I prefer brewing with the coconut water for the extra sweetness it imparts or the Gerolsteiner for the CO2 and its high calcium content—I figure the calcium helps to balance out some of the phosphorous in the coffee beans. I would like to try brewing green coffee beans, but I’m not sure if they’re okay from a Peaty standpoint. I tried searching the forum, but didn’t find much.

That’s good that you’ve gone back to drinking the milk with its fat then, since it clearly treats you better. As far as gaining fat from it, if you’re taking in the same amount of calories you were sans full-fat, I doubt your body fat will increase much, if at all. When Ray talks about whole milk being fattening, I think he means the extra fat calories are fattening, not the fat itself? Plus, the fat in goat’s milk is mainly saturated—I think 3 liters only comes out to around 4 grams of PUFA. I know we all have our own tissue strengths and weaknesses but if this helps ease your fear any, I consumed as much full-fat dairy as you when my doctor had me on that high-fat, dairy-based diet after fracturing and I was 4 lbs lighter then—about 95 lbs—so it definitely didn’t make me fat. My body became quite “ripped”, actually—I received comments from people about my muscle definition—and that’s when I was relearning how to walk so it certainly wasn’t a result of being active. My bone density also improved by 50% during that time so it seems to me the full-fat dairy was nourishing and based on your experience with it, I suspect it’s nourishing for you, as well.

I can tell how healthy you are just by the tone of your writing. It sounds peaceful and joyful, and it’s so nice to read! It’s amazing that you came from a place of darkness to find such happiness and health now. It’s really inspiring. I’m on my way to health too, using a lot of the same tools as you — mostly milk!

I’m with you on using the coffee water to maximize nutrition—I’ve been using magnesium bicarbonate water to fill my French press, so kinda like what you’re doing but not cold brew.

Thank you for reassuring me about drinking lots of full fat milk. It’s nice to hear that you drank a lot of it and got stronger bones and more muscles, despite not being super active. I have some muscle but I’d love to get ripped as well. But I’ll take a life free from inflammation, ripped or not :) I’m excited to see what the future holds for you, with feeling so good. I can only imagine how much positivity you’re radiating off into the universe. I can feel myself building there as well

 

[Jennifer]

I can tell how healthy you are just by the tone of your writing. It sounds peaceful and joyful, and it’s so nice to read! It’s amazing that you came from a place of darkness to find such happiness and health now. It’s really inspiring. I’m on my way to health too, using a lot of the same tools as you — mostly milk!

I’m with you on using the coffee water to maximize nutrition—I’ve been using magnesium bicarbonate water to fill my French press, so kinda like what you’re doing but not cold brew.

Thank you for reassuring me about drinking lots of full fat milk. It’s nice to hear that you drank a lot of it and got stronger bones and more muscles, despite not being super active. I have some muscle but I’d love to get ripped as well. But I’ll take a life free from inflammation, ripped or not :) I’m excited to see what the future holds for you, with feeling so good. I can only imagine how much positivity you’re radiating off into the universe. I can feel myself building there as well

Thank you so much! :) I find your journey inspiring as well and think it’s great how you’re honoring your body’s feedback. It’s not easy to do when there is so much information out there to contradict it or we have a cr*ppy day that tests our resolve. That’s a great idea to use the mag bicarb water for steeping. I meant to ask you, have you experienced more vivid dreaming since reintroducing coffee? My dreams have become quite vivid, but I don’t know if it’s due to the coffee or cacao because I mixed both brews together. I’ll have to make separate batches and experiment with them on their own for a day or two.

 

[Vileplume]

Thank you so much! :) I find your journey inspiring as well and think it’s great how you’re honoring your body’s feedback. It’s not easy to do when there is so much information out there to contradict it or we have a cr*ppy day that tests our resolve. That’s a great idea to use the mag bicarb water for steeping. I meant to ask you, have you experienced more vivid dreaming since reintroducing coffee? My dreams have become quite vivid, but I don’t know if it’s due to the coffee or cacao because I mixed both brews together. I’ll have to make separate batches and experiment with them on their own for a day or two.

I have not noticed a correlation between coffee intake and dream intensity, mostly because for me, the depth of my sleep and my dream intensity both correlate most strongly to my gut. When my gut is inflamed, I tend not to remember my dreams and I get low deep sleep. But when my gut functions well, I get loads of deep sleep, I remember my dreams more often, and the dreams tend to become more sexual in nature, since my libido comes back to life when my gut feels good. I actually notice that my strongest dreams are my sexual dreams, and these are the ones I seem to remember most. Years ago, I would remember lots of my dreams, sexual or not, but lately since my libido has spent so much time downregulated, I think my body and subconscious mind take as much opportunity as possible when my sex drive and gut function come back to life.

Do you enjoy your vivid dreams, or do you want them to tone down a bit? I hardly ever have nightmares, which I feel thankful for.

 

[Jennifer]

I have not noticed a correlation between coffee intake and dream intensity, mostly because for me, the depth of my sleep and my dream intensity both correlate most strongly to my gut. When my gut is inflamed, I tend not to remember my dreams and I get low deep sleep. But when my gut functions well, I get loads of deep sleep, I remember my dreams more often, and the dreams tend to become more sexual in nature, since my libido comes back to life when my gut feels good. I actually notice that my strongest dreams are my sexual dreams, and these are the ones I seem to remember most. Years ago, I would remember lots of my dreams, sexual or not, but lately since my libido has spent so much time downregulated, I think my body and subconscious mind take as much opportunity as possible when my sex drive and gut function come back to life.

Do you enjoy your vivid dreams, or do you want them to tone down a bit? I hardly ever have nightmares, which I feel thankful for.

Huh, it’s interesting that you bring up sexual dreams because the dreams I’ve been having, though not necessarily sexual, are romantic in nature. They used to be very sexual in nature when my progesterone level had skyrocketed from taking Progest-E so maybe the coffee and/or cacao is having a positive effect on my hormones. I think coffee is pro-thyroid? I have vivid nightmares when I’ve had something that irritated my gut so I think I can rule out gut irritation. Anyhow, thanks for the reply!

 

[Vileplume]

Huh, it’s interesting that you bring up sexual dreams because the dreams I’ve been having, though not necessarily sexual, are romantic in nature. They used to be very sexual in nature when my progesterone level had skyrocketed from taking Progest-E so maybe the coffee and/or cacao is having a positive effect on my hormones. I think coffee is pro-thyroid? I have vivid nightmares when I’ve had something that irritated my gut so I think I can rule out gut irritation. Anyhow, thanks for the reply!

I would bet that romantic dreams are a positive sign, perhaps increased thyroid. I tend to have romantic dreams when I feel happiest and most energized. And I tend to wake up from them feeling more connected to the world.

By the way, I see what you mean with the “musky” taste of heated goat milk. I bought an electric cream separator that works really well, but since it requires warming the milk to separate it, it develops a goaty taste. I don’t really like the taste do the farmers separate your milk right after milking, or do you/they reheat it before separation?

 

[Jennifer]

By the way, I see what you mean with the “musky” taste of heated goat milk. I bought an electric cream separator that works really well, but since it requires warming the milk to separate it, it develops a goaty taste. I don’t really like the taste do the farmers separate your milk right after milking, or do you/they reheat it before separation?

Have you tried warming the milk to no more than 85°? The milk is cold (from the fridge) when it’s separated. Their separator is a beast, not sure if that’s why it works without heating the milk first. Thankfully, the caffeine in coffee worked and now coffee cherry (cáscara) tea—I’ve been experimenting with it since my last reply—because I plan on switching over to cow’s milk exclusively. As delicious as their goat’s milk is, their cow’s milk is insane—it’s the sweetest milk I’ve ever had and is even A2/A2 certified.

 

[Vileplume]

Have you tried warming the milk to no more than 85°? The milk is cold (from the fridge) when it’s separated. Their separator is a beast, not sure if that’s why it works without heating the milk first. Thankfully, the caffeine in coffee worked and now coffee cherry (cáscara) tea—I’ve been experimenting with it since my last reply—because I plan on switching over to cow’s milk exclusively. As delicious as their goat’s milk is, their cow’s milk is insane—it’s the sweetest milk I’ve ever had and is even A2/A2 certified.

I tried warming it to room temp, around 85, and some of the cream separated but still not all of it, and the milk still developed a musky taste at this point. And I for too lately with cold separation, very little of the cream separated! It’s looking like best bet is to separate right when milked. I am my farmer’s only client, so she only milks like 1 gallon per day, but maybe she would be interested in using the cream. I’ll see if she wants to use my separator. Otherwise, I think I’ll be okay drinking lots of full fat milk until I can find a low fat option without additives.

I bet that cow’s milk is delicious! How cool is it that you live right near a farmer with such awesome and Peaty options. I’ve become such a big coffee consumer in these past few months. With thyroid too, such a boost to the thyroid :). I’ll have to check out coffee cherry tea.

 

[Jennifer]

I tried warming it to room temp, around 85, and some of the cream separated but still not all of it, and the milk still developed a musky taste at this point. And I for too lately with cold separation, very little of the cream separated! It’s looking like best bet is to separate right when milked. I am my farmer’s only client, so she only milks like 1 gallon per day, but maybe she would be interested in using the cream. I’ll see if she wants to use my separator. Otherwise, I think I’ll be okay drinking lots of full fat milk until I can find a low fat option without additives.

I bet that cow’s milk is delicious! How cool is it that you live right near a farmer with such awesome and Peaty options. I’ve become such a big coffee consumer in these past few months. With thyroid too, such a boost to the thyroid :). I’ll have to check out coffee cherry tea.

Darn. So you no longer get the hot flashes and tachycardia with the milk skimmed?

Yeah, it’s great! New Hampshire has a lot of awesome farms and I have quite a few just minutes from my house. The one I get my milk from is about an hour away but even with the long drive, it’s worth it to me given their particular farming practices.

 

[Vileplume]

Darn. So you no longer get the hot flashes and tachycardia with the milk skimmed?

Yeah, it’s great! New Hampshire has a lot of awesome farms and I have quite a few just minutes from my house. The one I get my milk from is about an hour away but even with the long drive, it’s worth it to me given their particular farming practices.

When I switched to skimmed milk, I quickly got some bad symptoms -- not the hot flashes and tachycardia, but digestive irritation and a reduced personality--I became cranky, slow, not my full self. But I don't think it was the skimmed milk at fault -- I also started using a new gelatin capsule that very probably upset my gut, I introduced a probiotic, and I tried a new honey. Any of these things could have caused the problem. For now, I will stick with full fat milk because I haven't gained weight on it so far--I actually got compliments that I look healthy. Plus, I'm keeping an eye on my fasting blood sugar to make sure I'm still utilizing sugar well. In the future I will return to skimmed milk, when I can find a way to make it taste good.

Wow, sounds like you live in a beautiful area. If I ever leave CA, I would love to check out New Hampshire. In my opinion, an hour drive is totally worth it. I would drive an hour for my milk, and I do anyway to get grass fed liver from the nearest Whole Foods. I hope you're doing great!!

 

[Jennifer]

When I switched to skimmed milk, I quickly got some bad symptoms -- not the hot flashes and tachycardia, but digestive irritation and a reduced personality--I became cranky, slow, not my full self. But I don't think it was the skimmed milk at fault -- I also started using a new gelatin capsule that very probably upset my gut, I introduced a probiotic, and I tried a new honey. Any of these things could have caused the problem. For now, I will stick with full fat milk because I haven't gained weight on it so far--I actually got compliments that I look healthy. Plus, I'm keeping an eye on my fasting blood sugar to make sure I'm still utilizing sugar well. In the future I will return to skimmed milk, when I can find a way to make it taste good.

Wow, sounds like you live in a beautiful area. If I ever leave CA, I would love to check out New Hampshire. In my opinion, an hour drive is totally worth it. I would drive an hour for my milk, and I do anyway to get grass fed liver from the nearest Whole Foods. I hope you're doing great!!

Gotcha. It’s difficult sometimes to decipher which food or supplement caused a reaction, for sure. That’s so great that people are taking notice of how healthy you’re looking. It’s always nice when we get conformation that all our efforts are paying off.

I’m doing great, thanks! :) Yeah, New Hampshire is a beautiful State if you like nature and the 4 seasons. What’s nice is we have the mountains, coast and lakes, all within a relatively short drive because the State is so small. That and looser laws. lol

 

[Vileplume]

Gotcha. It’s difficult sometimes to decipher which food or supplement caused a reaction, for sure. That’s so great that people are taking notice of how healthy you’re looking. It’s always nice when we get conformation that all our efforts are paying off.

I’m doing great, thanks! :) Yeah, New Hampshire is a beautiful State if you like nature and the 4 seasons. What’s nice is we have the mountains, coast and lakes, all within a relatively short drive because the State is so small. That and looser laws. lol

Hey Jennifer!

I wanted to follow up about differences you've noticed between how milk and juice affect you differently. I think we both find (goat or A2) milk to be probably the friendliest food to our bodies, for me even moreso than juice. Although fresh squeezed juice doesn't cause me any digestive problems, I feel like it doesn't energize me as well as milk does. A few days with more juicea nd less milk, and I find myself more stressed, more depressed, and less energized, despite nio clear digestive issues. I also seem to evaporate much more liqid with milk, instead of juice. I guess I only inclkude juice beacuse it provides some mineerrals and vitamins that I don't get much from milk.

Do you notice the same? I mean, does high milk intake treat you better than high juice intake? Do you find milk-only for a few days okay, or do you get sympmots of nutrient deficiency.

I hope I'm not overloading you with these questions, I just view you as experienced in the arenas of juice and milk.

 

[Jennifer]

Hey Jennifer!

I wanted to follow up about differences you've noticed between how milk and juice affect you differently. I think we both find (goat or A2) milk to be probably the friendliest food to our bodies, for me even moreso than juice. Although fresh squeezed juice doesn't cause me any digestive problems, I feel like it doesn't energize me as well as milk does. A few days with more juicea nd less milk, and I find myself more stressed, more depressed, and less energized, despite nio clear digestive issues. I also seem to evaporate much more liqid with milk, instead of juice. I guess I only inclkude juice beacuse it provides some mineerrals and vitamins that I don't get much from milk.

Do you notice the same? I mean, does high milk intake treat you better than high juice intake? Do you find milk-only for a few days okay, or do you get sympmots of nutrient deficiency.

I hope I'm not overloading you with these questions, I just view you as experienced in the arenas of juice and milk.

Hey Tyler! :)

Oh, no worries! You’re not overloading me with questions.

Yes, absolutely. I notice the same thing. I actually went 2 weeks on just milk not that long ago and planned on mentioning it when I update my log soon. Whenever I do a mono milk “fast,” I experience so many benefits—my anxiety is non-existent, my gut is silent, my elimination flawless, my skin buttery soft, my vision clear and so on—but by week two I’m craving fruit, which currently treats me pretty horrifically, like it did prior to clearing the SIBO. I suspect is a sign the SIBO is back, possibly because I’m not taking enough thyroid or it’s just a complication of my injury that I’ll have to manage for the unseeable future.

Despite it being really sweet and ripe, I experience a blistering and bleeding mouth, hives, burning intestines, migraines, vomiting, anxiety, tinnitus and vertigo (the last two are new) whenever I have fruit. I believe in honoring my cravings, but I can’t when I’m suffering reactions to one of my most craved foods. What happens is I end up gorging on foods I’m not actually craving because I’m not being satisfied. I have an upcoming appointment with my doctor and I’m going to ask if she’ll order another hydrogen breath test and check my cholesterol because if it’s high enough, I might need to up my thyroid dose.

If any other food treated you as well as milk, do you think you would you want to consume it?

 

[Vileplume]

Hey Tyler! :)

Oh, no worries! You’re not overloading me with questions.

Yes, absolutely. I notice the same thing. I actually went 2 weeks on just milk not that long ago and planned on mentioning it when I update my log soon. Whenever I do a mono milk “fast,” I experience so many benefits—my anxiety is non-existent, my gut is silent, my elimination flawless, my skin buttery soft, my vision clear and so on—but by week two I’m craving fruit, which currently treats me pretty horrifically, like it did prior to clearing the SIBO. I suspect is a sign the SIBO is back, possibly because I’m not taking enough thyroid or it’s just a complication of my injury that I’ll have to manage for the unseeable future.

Despite it being really sweet and ripe, I experience a blistering and bleeding mouth, hives, burning intestines, migraines, vomiting, anxiety, tinnitus and vertigo (the last two are new) whenever I have fruit. I believe in honoring my cravings, but I can’t when I’m suffering reactions to one of my most craved foods. What happens is I end up gorging on foods I’m not actually craving because I’m not being satisfied. I have an upcoming appointment with my doctor and I’m going to ask if she’ll order another hydrogen breath test and check my cholesterol because if it’s high enough, I might need to up my thyroid dose.

If any other food treated you as well as milk, do you think you would you want to consume it?

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear that you have symptoms indicating that your SIBO may be back. But I have no doubt that you will figure out the cause of these symptoms and soon get back to having no symptoms, because you have a relentless drive to solve any problems that your body throws at you. I look forward to finding out how you overcome this current reaction you're having to fruit. Isn't it odd how even if we don't change anything about our diets or approaches, something still might change in our bodies, forcing us to find a new approach or way to solve the issue? In this case, maybe even the shift from summer to winter could be affecting your thyroid, for example. But who knows.

I feel great whenever I go all milk, but I get concerned that I'm running low on some nutrients, and I crave some variety, so I go back to having a quart of orange juice per day. Simultaneously, I consume some other suspects that don't cause overt and blatant issues but might contribute: magnesium bicarbonate water, or lapodin, for example. And before I know it, my energy levels go down, my world outlook becomes grim, I find myself easily annoyed and not wanting to hang out with my roommates, I become a crankier and more authoritative and fearful teacher, and my tongue becomes gunked up. I keep a food journal, but it's still difficult to pin down what causes this downturn in energy because the onset is so sneaky and sometimes staggered, building up sloooowly after ongoing consumption of the foods. Since I have had previous good streaks when consuming orange juice, at least a few days long, this makes me think the OJ isn't at fault. Still, though, SOMETHING isn't right. And the OJ is a more likely culprit than the milk.

Do you think the craving for fruit is because there's some nutrient in there that your body wants? Have you noticed any symptoms (besides the cravings) popping up from doing milk-only for multiple weeks? Since milk and OJ are Peat's most recommended foods (I think), I always feel like milk alone isn't enough, because he always talks about the beneficial minerals in fruit. But why does it affect us worse than milk? Do you think you just need optimal thyroid function to tolerate that much liquid?

If any other food treated me as well as milk, I'd eat it all the time! I want to eat starches and whole fruit and pizza and tomato sauce, but I don't because these things will cause me negative symptoms. It's worth it to abstain because nothing beats a good mood and clear mind. I don't think those things will ever become a part of my regular diet though, and I'm okay with that. I just want to ensure myself a lifetime of high body temperature and optimal cellular function. And right now, I guess juice isn't contributing to that.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks, @Vileplume. :) It does seem odd, but it could very well be a need for more thyroid because of the time of year, sure.

I heard Ray say in an interview that the only nutrient missing from an all milk diet is iron. There could be many reasons I’m unaware of, but I definitely know I crave fruit for the sugar and pleasure of its texture and flavor profile such as the crispness and floral notes of a really good muscat grape. I haven’t noticed any other symptoms popping up when consuming only milk for multiple weeks, no. If I were to fast on it longer, I suspect I might start to experience some symptoms of iron deficiency, though.

Assuming the fruit is truly ripe, the only reason I can think of as to why it affects us worse than milk is the fact that it contains more sugar, though, you tolerate refined sugar, right? Even with refined sugar I get a white coated tongue, but that’s nothing new for me because of my thyroid and adrenal function. At least with fruit/juice, my tongue stays clean. My body actually thrives on water rich foods and “osmotically balanced” fluids, but they’re also my only source of water so that might be a factor.

Wait, I just thought of something. You’re sensitive to histamines, right? I only started having issues with fruit again after I began gorging daily on aged cheese, a high histamine food. And actually, a white coated tongue would indicate an overgrowth is present and my tongue stays clean even by evening. Also, when I had SIBO, any food rich in bacteria used to leave me covered in a rash. Could consuming high histamine foods when sensitive to them cause a sensitivity to even low histamine foods?

Assuming that the foods that bring me optimal health are foods that I truly enjoy, I also feel it’s worth the restriction, however, knowing that in the past I tolerated fruit better than any food, including the same raw A2/A2 milk I’m consuming presently, I can’t help but question if my health is actually optimal if I can no longer tolerate it. Was there ever a time when you felt as good with OJ/fruit as you do with goat’s milk or even a time when you felt worse with goat’s milk than you do with OJ/fruit currently?

 

[Vileplume]

Thanks, @Vileplume. :) It does seem odd, but it could very well be a need for more thyroid because of the time of year, sure.

I heard Ray say in an interview that the only nutrient missing from an all milk diet is iron. There could be many reasons I’m unaware of, but I definitely know I crave fruit for the sugar and pleasure of its texture and flavor profile such as the crispness and floral notes of a really good muscat grape. I haven’t noticed any other symptoms popping up when consuming only milk for multiple weeks, no. If I were to fast on it longer, I suspect I might start to experience some symptoms of iron deficiency, though.

Assuming the fruit is truly ripe, the only reason I can think of as to why it affects us worse than milk is the fact that it contains more sugar, though, you tolerate refined sugar, right? Even with refined sugar I get a white coated tongue, but that’s nothing new for me because of my thyroid and adrenal function. At least with fruit/juice, my tongue stays clean. My body actually thrives on water rich foods and “osmotically balanced” fluids, but they’re also my only source of water so that might be a factor.

Wait, I just thought of something. You’re sensitive to histamines, right? I only started having issues with fruit again after I began gorging daily on aged cheese, a high histamine food. And actually, a white coated tongue would indicate an overgrowth is present and my tongue stays clean even by evening. Also, when I had SIBO, any food rich in bacteria used to leave me covered in a rash. Could consuming high histamine foods when sensitive to them cause a sensitivity to even low histamine foods?

Assuming that the foods that bring me optimal health are foods that I truly enjoy, I also feel it’s worth the restriction, however, knowing that in the past I tolerated fruit better than any food, including the same raw A2/A2 milk I’m consuming presently, I can’t help but question if my health is actually optimal if I can no longer tolerate it. Was there ever a time when you felt as good with OJ/fruit as you do with goat’s milk or even a time when you felt worse with goat’s milk than you do with OJ/fruit currently?

I heard Peat say that too, about a milk-only diet having every nutrient but iron. I wonder, if we have sugar or caffeine with the milk, if then some nutrients become depleted, and fruit fills these in well. I'm not sure what nutrients these would be, though.

For me, the issue tends to be that the fruit is never perfectly ripe, even if it doesn't taste bitter. I've had this weird bloating and coated tongue all week, and I can't figure out the cause -- it could be the new brand of oranges I've been juicing, or it could be a suppressed thyroid from eating too many carrots, it could be that I'm taking too much thyroid, it could be the magnesium bicarbonate water I've been drinking. I suppose the best thing is to just eliminate these things, beginning with the most likely culprit, and build my diet back out.

So since your tongue is clean, but you get that rash, do you still suspect SIBO as your major cause? Or perhaps SIBO and a histamine intolerance, because it sounds like they go hand in hand? Have you tried cutting the cheese?

I think for me, SIBO is probably somewhere near the root cause, and perhaps histamine too, although before when I had histamine problems, I would get a lot of hot flashes and tachycardia, and currently I don't have those. I actually have the opposite problem -- cold hands, signs of low thyroid function, despite taking 2.5 grains of cynoplus. This past week I tried without the cheese, and my problems still remain -- it must be that something isn't digesting right, or low thyroid function.

You ask great questions. No, there was never a time where I felt better with OJ/fruit than I currently do with goat milk. The best phases of my stretch always featured goat milk, and OJ might have been around for some of those, but goat milk has always been the main star. Sometimes I've felt pretty good with OJ, but never optimal. What about you -- has fruit ever allowed you to feel as good as goat milk has?

 

[Jennifer]

I heard Peat say that too, about a milk-only diet having every nutrient but iron. I wonder, if we have sugar or caffeine with the milk, if then some nutrients become depleted, and fruit fills these in well. I'm not sure what nutrients these would be, though.

For me, the issue tends to be that the fruit is never perfectly ripe, even if it doesn't taste bitter. I've had this weird bloating and coated tongue all week, and I can't figure out the cause -- it could be the new brand of oranges I've been juicing, or it could be a suppressed thyroid from eating too many carrots, it could be that I'm taking too much thyroid, it could be the magnesium bicarbonate water I've been drinking. I suppose the best thing is to just eliminate these things, beginning with the most likely culprit, and build my diet back out.

So since your tongue is clean, but you get that rash, do you still suspect SIBO as your major cause? Or perhaps SIBO and a histamine intolerance, because it sounds like they go hand in hand? Have you tried cutting the cheese?

I think for me, SIBO is probably somewhere near the root cause, and perhaps histamine too, although before when I had histamine problems, I would get a lot of hot flashes and tachycardia, and currently I don't have those. I actually have the opposite problem -- cold hands, signs of low thyroid function, despite taking 2.5 grains of cynoplus. This past week I tried without the cheese, and my problems still remain -- it must be that something isn't digesting right, or low thyroid function.

You ask great questions. No, there was never a time where I felt better with OJ/fruit than I currently do with goat milk. The best phases of my stretch always featured goat milk, and OJ might have been around for some of those, but goat milk has always been the main star. Sometimes I've felt pretty good with OJ, but never optimal. What about you -- has fruit ever allowed you to feel as good as goat milk has?

I’ve heard people saying that they deplete nutrients, but I’m not sure if that’s actually true. The caffeine in coffee, tea and chocolate accompany vitamins and minerals and fructose has been shown to help retain nutrients. From Ray’s sugar issues’ article:

“Fructose affects the body's ability to retain other nutrients, including magnesium, copper, calcium, and other minerals. Comparing diets with 20% of the calories from fructose or from cornstarch, Holbrook, et al. (1989) concluded "The results indicate that dietary fructose enhances mineral balance." Ordinarily, things (such as thyroid and vitamin D) which improve the retention of magnesium and other nutrients are considered good, but the fructose mythology allows researchers to conclude, after finding an increased magnesium balance, with either 4% or 20% of energy from fructose (compared to cornstarch, bread, and rice), "that dietary fructose adversely affects macromineral homeostasis in humans." (Milne and Nielsen, 2000).

Another study compared the effects of a diet with plain water, or water containing 13% glucose, or sucrose, or fructose, or high fructose corn syrup on the properties of rats' bones: Bone mineral density and mineral content, and bone strength, and mineral balance. The largest differences were between animals drinking the glucose and the fructose solutions. The rats getting the glucose had reduced phosphorus in their bones, and more calcium in their urine, than the rats that got fructose. "The results suggested that glucose rather than fructose exerted more deleterious effects on mineral balance and bone" (Tsanzi, et al., 2008).

An older experiment compared two groups with an otherwise well balanced diet, lacking vitamin D, containing either 68% starch or 68% sucrose. A third group got the starch diet, but with added vitamin D. The rats on the vitamin D deficient starch diet had very low levels of calcium in their blood, and the calcium content of their bones was low, exactly what is expected with the vitamin D deficiency. However, the rats on the sucrose diet, also vitamin D deficient, had normal levels of calcium in their blood. The sucrose, unlike the starch, maintained claim homeostasis. A radioactive calcium tracer showed normal uptake by the bone, and also apparently normal bone development, although their bones were lighter than those receiving vitamin D.”

I think the potential issue with refined sugar is when it displaces nutrient replete carb sources, like fruit and milk, in a diet already deficient in nutrients, but you’re get plenty from the goat’s milk, coffee, liver and eggs. More from the sugar issues’ article:

“A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions.

Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic.”

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar...

raypeat.com

There’s also the option of coconut water, particularly ones sourced from Thai coconuts as they tend to be sweeter. When compared calorie for calorie, coconut water is higher than OJ, and even goat’s milk, in many nutrients—B2, B6, copper, Iron, magnesium, manganese, potassium, selenium, sodium and zinc—and unlike fruit, its quality is consistently reliable and less likely to aggravate the intestines, IME—it was one of only a few foods I tolerated when I had gastritis. I keep some raw coconut water in the freezer and powder coconut water in the pantry to have on hand for when available fruit is lousy, which seems to be more often than not.

That’s the case for me, as well. Even when fruit is sweet without any acidity or bitterness, I can still reacted to it. I bought organic grapes from two different markets last week that tasted identical and one batch had me running to the bathroom, while the other batch caused no reaction whatsoever. I did try cutting the cheese (lol) and thought I had found the culprit, until I had that bad batch of grapes. I had extensive blood work done on Saturday and despite the milk fasts and limited diet I’ve been on for a year and a half now, my numbers are shockingly excellent, even iron, so I really think poor quality fruit is to blame for my symptoms and not SIBO or histamines.

There was one summer back in 2009 when I ate nothing but cantaloupe. They were the size of basketballs, incredibly fragrant and dripped of the sweetest nectar. They were all I craved and I felt incredible, however, by the end of the summer, I resembled an Oompa Loompa so it didn’t do my thyroid any favors. I was running on adrenaline and as a person with an under-active thyroid, adrenaline can, in the short term, make me feel amazing compared to that typical, low energized, hypo state and back then, I didn’t know the signs of adrenaline such as a racing heart, cold extremities, frequent urination etc. so it’s far too easy for me to romanticize my fruitarian days.

 

[peter88]

Hey Vileplume, I think I recall you saying that you switched to summerhill goat milk. I was just wondering if you are still drinking it and how you feel it compares to raw milk? The raw A2 milk from my local farm has started tasting bad lately so I just picked up a couple bottles of summerhill but I’m kinda hesitant cause I’ve drank raw milk for over a year lol.

 

[Vileplume]

Hey Vileplume, I think I recall you saying that you switched to summerhill goat milk. I was just wondering if you are still drinking it and how you feel it compares to raw milk? The raw A2 milk from my local farm has started tasting bad lately so I just picked up a couple bottles of summerhill but I’m kinda hesitant cause I’ve drank raw milk for over a year lol.

Hey Peter. When I can find delicious raw A2 (for me, goat) milk, that’s my first choice. But when my farmer’s raw goat milk started tasting peppery and affecting my gut differently, which happened like two months ago, I switched to Summerhill and have since been drinking a gallon of it every day. I have noticed no digestive problems, on the contrary it seems to affect me really well. I appreciate that it has no added vitamins, it’s A2, and I have not gained any weight despite the high fat content. Since the fat solidifies thickly in the fridge, I think the fat is highly saturated.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hey Vileplume, I think I recall you saying that you switched to summerhill goat milk. I was just wondering if you are still drinking it and how you feel it compares to raw milk? The raw A2 milk from my local farm has started tasting bad lately so I just picked up a couple bottles of summerhill but I’m kinda hesitant cause I’ve drank raw milk for over a year lol.

Is you bad tasting raw milk from Organic Pastures? I tried theirs and it was awful!