House bound at 26, F, desperate for help - hypo, adrenal insufficency, can't tolerate thyroid. mineral imbalance

[ratqueen]

Hello. I'm 26 years old female, I moved country to be with my partner and I am completely dependent on him now after years of chronic stress living with a toxic family, moldy house, and the copper iud/hypermobility problems. I do have a history of childhood vaccines though, removed tonsills, not breast fed, like many ppl dealt a shitty hand.
My health the past 2 years has completely deteriorated. I did not get the vac.
I have recently been put on HC 25 mg for the past 3 months now, and I am still unable to tolerate thyroid under an endo who noticed my very low morning cortisol which was overlooked for a year (during this time I was taking thyroid unknowingly). Under an HTMA by an experienced practitioner I have found my adrenal and thyroid are completely tanked. I have tried asking many platforms for advice and I keep getting mixed answers. Some ppl have told me to increase HC, whereas the mineral side of things has told me to wean off of it due to my cripplingly low potassium and sodium levels my adrenals are exhausted (and other imbalances). My endo thinks I have a disease called NCAH which causes lower cortisol and elevated dhea....Well my dhea is now lower but i feel even worse. He thinks this is a good thing clinically. I was not officially diagnosed he did this clinically and after listening to my symptoms and one blood work.

When I was taking 10-15mg of HC I felt better than what I do now and could actually tolerate thyroid medication (not well but could feel the effects), this leads me to think due to my potassium being so low now it is hitting my ability to tolerate it in some way (whether by adrenal damage or something)
I also have SIBO which is creating a huge obstacle for eating anything carby, but I am not keto and try to get at least 40grams of carbs a day without disrupting my intestines too much. For almost a year I was keto/carnivore due to my sibo thinking it would help (yes I know, terrible)..under a functional doctor and I was taking thyroid without her checking my adrenal status once(this was before I was on hc).


I have no appetite but i force myself to eat: some meat from butcher every meal, mostly chicken or pork due to potassium (i know its pufa), carrots, zucchini, mushrooms, and sometimes dark chocolate/organic rice cakes. Honey with tea i can stomach in small amounts at a time. Lots of coconut oil for calories.

I am now excessively urinating everyday, inflammation, hot feeling around midday but unpleasant, like a fever, on edge, vertigo, nausea, blood pressure issues which triggers my nervous system into cascading epinephrine and norepinephrine which leads me with an impending doom feeling, can't breath, etc. Of course I have been to to the hospital a few times as an emergency. My current endo previously believed it was due to my extremeley low catecholamines output dertermined by neurotransmitter test which just confirmed my medulla is not working at all, but still why can I not tolerate thyroid medication? I am extremely cold, no appetite, feels like I am legitimately dying, no short term memory recall. I cannot even do house work.

Please any help on what to do. I am scheduled for an appointment with my endo and I am going to insist on potassium/sodium testing as well as for my adolsterone and renin. I think he will probably want me on another steroid to compensate for the extremely low sodium. My last thyroid test showed my T3 levels well under my range. I will post them when I find them also. From my understanding I also need thyroid to make the adrenals work properly - which is why I accepted the HC in the first place. Does this just indicate I need an even higher dose of HC?

I have started taking high quality celtic sea salt daily around a tsbp to 2, i have read up to 12 grams with adrenal insufficiency is safe. Everyday I take B5, around 400 mg, B6 50mg, Zinc 22mg, adrenal jigsaw cocktail mix a few times a day, increased potassium from mushrooms (few veggie i can eat), lthenanine 200mg, magnesium glycinate 300mg, ltyrosine for dopamine production 500mg, selenium 100mg, iodine from kelp 600 -1200mg(i built up to this) I am trying some specific chinese medicine soon when it arrives also after trying acupuncture and micro specific frequency treatment. I drink honey in my tea also but I'm not even sure if that's a good idea with my blood sugar, I need to research that more. I am having a very hard time focusing sorry if i left anything out
Any help please? Thanks so much

 

[mostlylurking]

Hello. I'm 26 years old female, I moved country to be with my partner and I am completely dependent on him now after years of chronic stress living with a toxic family, moldy house, and the copper iud/hypermobility problems. I do have a history of childhood vaccines though, removed tonsills, not breast fed, like many ppl dealt a shitty hand.
My health the past 2 years has completely deteriorated. I did not get the vac.
I have recently been put on HC 25 mg for the past 3 months now, and I am still unable to tolerate thyroid under an endo who noticed my very low morning cortisol which was overlooked for a year (during this time I was taking thyroid unknowingly). Under an HTMA by an experienced practitioner I have found my adrenal and thyroid are completely tanked. I have tried asking many platforms for advice and I keep getting mixed answers. Some ppl have told me to increase HC, whereas the mineral side of things has told me to wean off of it due to my cripplingly low potassium and sodium levels my adrenals are exhausted (and other imbalances). My endo thinks I have a disease called NCAH which causes lower cortisol and elevated dhea....Well my dhea is now lower but i feel even worse. He thinks this is a good thing clinically. I was not officially diagnosed he did this clinically and after listening to my symptoms and one blood work.

When I was taking 10-15mg of HC I felt better than what I do now and could actually tolerate thyroid medication (not well but could feel the effects), this leads me to think due to my potassium being so low now it is hitting my ability to tolerate it in some way (whether by adrenal damage or something)
I also have SIBO which is creating a huge obstacle for eating anything carby, but I am not keto and try to get at least 40grams of carbs a day without disrupting my intestines too much. For almost a year I was keto/carnivore due to my sibo thinking it would help (yes I know, terrible)..under a functional doctor and I was taking thyroid without her checking my adrenal status once(this was before I was on hc).


I have no appetite but i force myself to eat: some meat from butcher every meal, mostly chicken or pork due to potassium (i know its pufa), carrots, zucchini, mushrooms, and sometimes dark chocolate/organic rice cakes. Honey with tea i can stomach in small amounts at a time. Lots of coconut oil for calories.

I am now excessively urinating everyday, inflammation, hot feeling around midday but unpleasant, like a fever, on edge, vertigo, nausea, blood pressure issues which triggers my nervous system into cascading epinephrine and norepinephrine which leads me with an impending doom feeling, can't breath, etc. Of course I have been to to the hospital a few times as an emergency. My current endo previously believed it was due to my extremeley low catecholamines output dertermined by neurotransmitter test which just confirmed my medulla is not working at all, but still why can I not tolerate thyroid medication? I am extremely cold, no appetite, feels like I am legitimately dying, no short term memory recall. I cannot even do house work.

Please any help on what to do. I am scheduled for an appointment with my endo and I am going to insist on potassium/sodium testing as well as for my adolsterone and renin. I think he will probably want me on another steroid to compensate for the extremely low sodium. My last thyroid test showed my T3 levels well under my range. I will post them when I find them also. From my understanding I also need thyroid to make the adrenals work properly - which is why I accepted the HC in the first place. Does this just indicate I need an even higher dose of HC?

I have started taking high quality celtic sea salt daily around a tsbp to 2, i have read up to 12 grams with adrenal insufficiency is safe. Everyday I take B5, around 400 mg, B6 50mg, Zinc 22mg, adrenal jigsaw cocktail mix a few times a day, increased potassium from mushrooms (few veggie i can eat), lthenanine 200mg, magnesium glycinate 300mg, ltyrosine for dopamine production 500mg, selenium 100mg, iodine from kelp 600 -1200mg(i built up to this) I am trying some specific chinese medicine soon when it arrives also after trying acupuncture and micro specific frequency treatment. I drink honey in my tea also but I'm not even sure if that's a good idea with my blood sugar, I need to research that more. I am having a very hard time focusing sorry if i left anything out
Any help please? Thanks so much

So sorry for your troubles! I'd like to make a suggestion or two for your consideration.

I see from your entry that you have tried multiple things. Have you considered the possibility that your troubles are caused by or exacerbated by thiamine deficiency? Searching for Thiamine and Adrenals yields some articles.
Here:

Vitamin therapy in critically ill patients: focus on thiamine, vitamin C, and vitamin D - Intensive Care Medicine

link.springer.com

and

The Mitochondria, Adrenal, and Thyroid Connection - Dr. Izabella Wentz, PharmD -

There’s an intricate connection between the health of our mitochondria, our thyroid function, and adrenal dysfunction.

thyroidpharmacist.com

Here are a few articles about thiamine for your consideration:

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

(adrenals/adrenal fatigue are discussed in the Comments - click Control+F and search for Adrenal)
also:

Familial Beriberi: Discovering Lifelong, Genetic, Thiamine Deficiency - Hormones Matter

I have a defect in a key thiamine transporter that made getting sufficient thiamine from diet all but impossible.

www.hormonesmatter.com

also:

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Is that black tea you are drinking? Coffee and black tea block thiamine function. If you are borderline deficient in thiamine and consume sugary things it will make the deficiency worse.

Consuming the kelp for the iodine could be detrimental to your health. If you overload on iodine it can damage your thyroid function.

Have you tried taking pregnenolone? What is your cholesterol status?

 

[ratqueen]

So sorry for your troubles! I'd like to make a suggestion or two for your consideration.

I see from your entry that you have tried multiple things. Have you considered the possibility that your troubles are caused by or exacerbated by thiamine deficiency? Searching for Thiamine and Adrenals yields some articles.
Here:

Vitamin therapy in critically ill patients: focus on thiamine, vitamin C, and vitamin D - Intensive Care Medicine

link.springer.com

and

The Mitochondria, Adrenal, and Thyroid Connection - Dr. Izabella Wentz, PharmD -

There’s an intricate connection between the health of our mitochondria, our thyroid function, and adrenal dysfunction.

thyroidpharmacist.com

Here are a few articles about thiamine for your consideration:

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

(adrenals/adrenal fatigue are discussed in the Comments - click Control+F and search for Adrenal)
also:

Familial Beriberi: Discovering Lifelong, Genetic, Thiamine Deficiency - Hormones Matter

I have a defect in a key thiamine transporter that made getting sufficient thiamine from diet all but impossible.

www.hormonesmatter.com

also:

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Is that black tea you are drinking? Coffee and black tea block thiamine function. If you are borderline deficient in thiamine and consume sugary things it will make the deficiency worse.

Consuming the kelp for the iodine could be detrimental to your health. If you overload on iodine it can damage your thyroid function.

Have you tried taking pregnenolone? What is your cholesterol status?

Hi thank u for ur advice and response. I have looked into B1 but not extensively I know I am deficient in bvitamins due to my HTMA so that is something I will start supplementing with actually as its cheap and accessible.

So sorry for your troubles! I'd like to make a suggestion or two for your consideration.

I see from your entry that you have tried multiple things. Have you considered the possibility that your troubles are caused by or exacerbated by thiamine deficiency? Searching for Thiamine and Adrenals yields some articles.
Here:

Vitamin therapy in critically ill patients: focus on thiamine, vitamin C, and vitamin D - Intensive Care Medicine

link.springer.com

and

The Mitochondria, Adrenal, and Thyroid Connection - Dr. Izabella Wentz, PharmD -

There’s an intricate connection between the health of our mitochondria, our thyroid function, and adrenal dysfunction.

thyroidpharmacist.com

Here are a few articles about thiamine for your consideration:

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

(adrenals/adrenal fatigue are discussed in the Comments - click Control+F and search for Adrenal)
also:

Familial Beriberi: Discovering Lifelong, Genetic, Thiamine Deficiency - Hormones Matter

I have a defect in a key thiamine transporter that made getting sufficient thiamine from diet all but impossible.

www.hormonesmatter.com

also:

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Is that black tea you are drinking? Coffee and black tea block thiamine function. If you are borderline deficient in thiamine and consume sugary things it will make the deficiency worse.

Consuming the kelp for the iodine could be detrimental to your health. If you overload on iodine it can damage your thyroid function.

Have you tried taking pregnenolone? What is your cholesterol status?

Hi thank u so much for replying with trying to help. Im not sure of my cholesterol status - its very high from what I remember (probably because i am so hypo), i also apparently have a genetic disposition/disease to high cholesterol, god the doctors wont stop bothering me about it...meanwhile i am dying lol but better get me on statins. what a joke. The kelp is OK to take alongside with selenium I have done a proper protocol working up to that dosage and i don't feel any worse after taking it so I am assuming it is still OK. It was advised under a copper expert called Rick Fischer.

Actually I have been recommended bvitamins to take so i shall start that. I have low stomach acid and sodium and they deduced from that i am easily deficient in bvitamins as well as for other reasons.

I don't drink tea only nettle tea and infusions which i have stopped after learning it is a diuretic and could be making my issues worse. I haven't tried pregneolone due to my current endo wanting my dhea to be LOW since he thinks I have NCAH which is a disease that causes elevated androgens so he was not very happy about the idea of me trying it. The point from his perspective was to give my adrenals a "break" by supplying them with cortisol, thus they dont need to work as hard and lower dhea as a result. I don't know a whole lot about NCAH but this has been the treatment so far.

 

[Peater]

Could be the copper has affected your liver and it's not functioning well. The thyroid/liver/adrenals "triad".

Hypothyroidism and Adrenal Fatigue: Why Treating Your Adrenals Is Ruining Your Thyroid

Discover why hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue are one in the same, why treating your adrenals is dangerous, and five thyroid fixes for your adrenals.

www.forefronthealth.com

 

[ratqueen]

Could be the copper has affected your liver and it's not functioning well. The thyroid/liver/adrenals "triad".

Hypothyroidism and Adrenal Fatigue: Why Treating Your Adrenals Is Ruining Your Thyroid

Discover why hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue are one in the same, why treating your adrenals is dangerous, and five thyroid fixes for your adrenals.

www.forefronthealth.com

hi thanks i've read that article before but will correct my eating so i have carbs every meal, i was not doing that before. I know I need T3 to break the cycle but it seems to have no effect on me or a negative one. I'm confused. Maybe I should start experimenting with extremely low doses like the article suggests. I did for a while and didn't feel any difference, but maybe thats a good thing(as long as its not negative)

 

[Peater]

hi thanks i've read that article before but will correct my eating so i have carbs every meal, i was not doing that before. I know I need T3 to break the cycle but it seems to have no effect on me or a negative one. I'm confused. Maybe I should start experimenting with extremely low doses like the article suggests. I did for a while and didn't feel any difference, but maybe thats a good thing(as long as its not negative)

It might be worth dropping the kelp and trying an NDT product, or even an equivalent or lower dose of Lugol's, as the iodine is why you are taking the kelp.

The common wisdom is that kelp absorbs just as much pollution, or at least, just as many of the other halogens as it does iodine, and is not standardised.

 

[mostlylurking]

The kelp is OK to take alongside with selenium I have done a proper protocol working up to that dosage and i don't feel any worse after taking it so I am assuming it is still OK. It was advised under a copper expert called Rick Fischer.

How much selenium? For how long?

Ray Peat about iodine and kelp:
bioenergetic search search results for "kelp"
included this one:

00:15:20.360
"...to the thyroid gland. Thyroiditis appears increasingly when people just a milligram of iodine or more. And do you know the measurements on how much is in kelp powder? How many milligrams is in a teaspoon of kelp or a half teaspoon of kelp? No, but probably a half teaspoon. I think people have calculated that it would take an ounce to be equal to the Center for Disease Control amount, but probably a half teaspoon is adequate to saturate most people. But only once we have more information saying there is actually elevated levels of radioactive..."

also, from a search for "iodine":
01:28:05.600
That alone was giving the American population for decades a toxic overdose of iodine. Do we get iodine when we eat fresh fish as well? Yeah, having a serving of fish from the ocean once a week will pretty much guarantee our adequate iodine. And any seaweed kind of stuff too would give us plenty of iodine, right? Yeah, but you can overdose. A lot of people overdose by using iodine-rich seaweed. And what would the symptoms be of an overdose? I think it contributes to the high incidence of nearsightedness in the Japanese.
also this one (you may want to start the recording earlier than it is set for):

01:07:12
And in a group completely without thyroid cancer, they were below 0.4 on the TSH scale. And the areas that are supplemented with iodine, even the salt, the amount of iodine in salt is sometimes several times higher than our requirement for iodine. And in those populations, thyroid disease and thyroid cancer is very seriously increased just from that slight chronic antithyroid effect of the chronic excess iodine. So that's why you're not supported as long as I've talked to you. I believe you don't like taking supplemental iodine at all. You think it's unnecessary. And dangerous. And dangerous. Wow.

-end paste-

Please consider the possibility of thiamine deficiency/functional blockage; it's a pretty common problem. The body parts (thyroid, adrenals, etc.) all need thiamine because thiamine is required for oxidative metabolism (the creation of cellular energy, ATP) to happen. I posted links to info earlier.

 

[Jonk]

-From a Ray Peat interview:
“Dr Peat: A dosage of 150 mcg (micrograms, not milligrams, e.g. ug not mg) is a safe amount of iodine. My current newsletter has some references describing the effect of even moderate iodine excess (even below a milligram per day) on the thyroid. An iodine deficiency can cause hypothyroidism (rare now), but so can an excess. Most goiters now are from estrogen-like effects, but they used to be from iodine deficiency. Chronic excess iodine tends to cause thyroiditis, regardless of the gland's size.
The amounts used by Abraham and Flechas are much larger than this – very toxic doses, enough to cause severe thyroid problems. “

-The B5 dosage might also be high. A doctor on Youtube by the name Stasha Gominak has a protocol involving D3 and B5 (along with the other B-vits). She started her patients on 400mg B5 but it turned out to be way high of a dose for almost everyone.

-Have you had your vit D checked?

-For me personally, I seem to do better on shellfish like oysters, clams and shrimp rather than chicken and beef. I think going low protein for a few days, giving the muscle meats a rest, can make a huge difference in digestion and blood sugar control.

 

[ratqueen]

How much selenium? For how long?

Ray Peat about iodine and kelp:
bioenergetic search search results for "kelp"
included this one:

00:15:20.360
"...to the thyroid gland. Thyroiditis appears increasingly when people just a milligram of iodine or more. And do you know the measurements on how much is in kelp powder? How many milligrams is in a teaspoon of kelp or a half teaspoon of kelp? No, but probably a half teaspoon. I think people have calculated that it would take an ounce to be equal to the Center for Disease Control amount, but probably a half teaspoon is adequate to saturate most people. But only once we have more information saying there is actually elevated levels of radioactive..."

also, from a search for "iodine":
01:28:05.600
That alone was giving the American population for decades a toxic overdose of iodine. Do we get iodine when we eat fresh fish as well? Yeah, having a serving of fish from the ocean once a week will pretty much guarantee our adequate iodine. And any seaweed kind of stuff too would give us plenty of iodine, right? Yeah, but you can overdose. A lot of people overdose by using iodine-rich seaweed. And what would the symptoms be of an overdose? I think it contributes to the high incidence of nearsightedness in the Japanese.
also this one (you may want to start the recording earlier than it is set for):

01:07:12
And in a group completely without thyroid cancer, they were below 0.4 on the TSH scale. And the areas that are supplemented with iodine, even the salt, the amount of iodine in salt is sometimes several times higher than our requirement for iodine. And in those populations, thyroid disease and thyroid cancer is very seriously increased just from that slight chronic antithyroid effect of the chronic excess iodine. So that's why you're not supported as long as I've talked to you. I believe you don't like taking supplemental iodine at all. You think it's unnecessary. And dangerous. And dangerous. Wow.

-end paste-

Please consider the possibility of thiamine deficiency/functional blockage; it's a pretty common problem. The body parts (thyroid, adrenals, etc.) all need thiamine because thiamine is required for oxidative metabolism (the creation of cellular energy, ATP) to happen. I posted links to info earlier.

Hi thanks so much for responding. I am taking 100mcg selenium for weeks now prior to taking the iodine, as well as vitamin c and potassium. I am going to start my bcomplex which has thiamine in it, As for the iodine im not so sure anymore as i've been taking it for months and feeling no better in terms of what i think is my thyroid

 

[ratqueen]

It might be worth dropping the kelp and trying an NDT product, or even an equivalent or lower dose of Lugol's, as the iodine is why you are taking the kelp.

The common wisdom is that kelp absorbs just as much pollution, or at least, just as many of the other halogens as it does iodine, and is not standardised.

I want to try the NDT again but I'm quite scared, I was using a small amount of NDT by ancestral supplements (its like 30mg thyroid in a capsule), and i would get heart pounding and unpleasant adrenal like symptoms, albeit that was quite a while ago now. I am having my electrolytes tested tomorrow in my blood and will have an updated thyroid blood lab drawn before i experiment again.

 

[Peater]

I want to try the NDT again but I'm quite scared, I was using a small amount of NDT by ancestral supplements (its like 30mg thyroid in a capsule), and i would get heart pounding and unpleasant adrenal like symptoms, albeit that was quite a while ago now. I am having my electrolytes tested tomorrow in my blood and will have an updated thyroid blood lab drawn before i experiment again.

As I understand it, that is actually normal, if unpleasant. Your body needs to adjust to actually having thyroid hormones about, and not needing to produce so much stress hormones.

Hopefully someone can confirm but I think I remember a quote by Peat where a beta-blocker could be taken for a few days after starting NDT to help manage it.

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi thanks so much for responding. I am taking 100mcg selenium for weeks now prior to taking the iodine, as well as vitamin c and potassium. I am going to start my bcomplex which has thiamine in it, As for the iodine im not so sure anymore as i've been taking it for months and feeling no better in terms of what i think is my thyroid

Look at your b-complex. Determine which kind of thiamine is in it and what the amount is.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Aspirin comes to mind as something that would help with inflammation and is generally beneficial. Look into that and see if it is worth testing.

 

[mostlylurking]

As I understand it, that is actually normal, if unpleasant. Your body needs to adjust to actually having thyroid hormones about, and not needing to produce so much stress hormones.

Hopefully someone can confirm but I think I remember a quote by Peat where a beta-blocker could be taken for a few days after starting NDT to help manage it.

Uh, no.

 

[Peater]

Uh, no.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

During the first week or two of supplementing thyroid, there is usually an intensification of the effect of adrenaline. It’s necessary to watch a variety of signs, especially the temperature of hands and feet and the amount of water evaporated, to judge the actual effect of thyroid. The effect of thyroid after the level of adrenaline has normalized is to increase the depth of relaxation.

I might have read about beta blockers in either Broda Barnes book or Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy: Second edition of The Great Thyroid Scandal and How to Avoid It by Barry Durrant-Peatfield

 

[mostlylurking]

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

I might have read about beta blockers in either Broda Barnes book or Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy: Second edition of The Great Thyroid Scandal and How to Avoid It by Barry Durrant-Peatfield

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

from the email exchange:
"[HIGH HEART RATE AFTER T3] I think regular use of the pregnenolone might help. Are you getting enough milk, and salting your food to taste? Do you have some sea food regularly? (For trace minerals.)Have you tried taking the small amounts of T3 at different intervals, sooner until the symptoms are gone, then longer intervals until they return? TSH is likely to be high early in the morning, and as it subsides during the day the amount of T3 needed might decrease."

also:
"[HIGH STRESS HORMONES ON THYROID INCREASES SENSITIVITY TO THEM?] Not necessarily, but it's something to watch for. The daily temperature cycle is helpful, if stress is low, there will be a strong cycle, lowest at night, early morning."

also:
"[THYROID NOT ENOUGH TO LOWER STRESS HORMONES] Yes, the diet is an essential part of normalizing them. The climate is important, too."

also:
"[HYPOTHYROID SYMPTOMS RETURN DESPITE SAME DOSAGE]During the first week or two of supplementing thyroid, there is usually an intensification of the effect of adrenaline. It’s necessary to watch a variety of signs, especially the temperature of hands and feet and the amount of water evaporated, to judge the actual effect of thyroid. The effect of thyroid after the level of adrenaline has normalized is to increase the depth of relaxation."

also:
"[THYROID ACTING LIKE CAFFEINE] Not like caffeine, but if too much is taken suddenly, a person who has been deficient in thyroid is likely to experience an excess of adrenaline. Since the body normally produces about 4 mcg of T3 in an hour, taking 10 or 20 mcg at once is unphysiological."

Ray Peat was very conservative in his advice. My understanding has been that it is very important to take tiny tiny doses of T3 and to carefully monitor your response to it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ray Peat who suggested taking beta blockers to deal with heart palpitations, etc. He wasn't a fan of pharmaceutical drugs.

I'm hypothyroid, I was diagnosed 46 years ago. I've dealt with it for a very long time. I found Ray Peat's knowledge and advice to be immensely helpful because it gave me the self confidence to seek out a good endocrinologist to help me and to keep asking for increases in my prescription desiccated thyroid because I understood that my symptoms were showing me (and my endo) that I would benefit from a greater dose. With the help of my endo and Ray Peat's wisdom I recovered from crippling rheumatoid arthritis. I believe that if you are really sick, it is important to educate yourself and then seek out a good professional who knows what they are doing and who is willing to take the time to get your dosage optimized. This optimization process takes months. You have to stair-step the dose up over time so the body can acclimate to it gradually by reducing your stress hormones as it gets used to having the thyroid hormones available.

 

[ratqueen]

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

from the email exchange:
"[HIGH HEART RATE AFTER T3] I think regular use of the pregnenolone might help. Are you getting enough milk, and salting your food to taste? Do you have some sea food regularly? (For trace minerals.)Have you tried taking the small amounts of T3 at different intervals, sooner until the symptoms are gone, then longer intervals until they return? TSH is likely to be high early in the morning, and as it subsides during the day the amount of T3 needed might decrease."

also:
"[HIGH STRESS HORMONES ON THYROID INCREASES SENSITIVITY TO THEM?] Not necessarily, but it's something to watch for. The daily temperature cycle is helpful, if stress is low, there will be a strong cycle, lowest at night, early morning."

also:
"[THYROID NOT ENOUGH TO LOWER STRESS HORMONES] Yes, the diet is an essential part of normalizing them. The climate is important, too."

also:
"[HYPOTHYROID SYMPTOMS RETURN DESPITE SAME DOSAGE]During the first week or two of supplementing thyroid, there is usually an intensification of the effect of adrenaline. It’s necessary to watch a variety of signs, especially the temperature of hands and feet and the amount of water evaporated, to judge the actual effect of thyroid. The effect of thyroid after the level of adrenaline has normalized is to increase the depth of relaxation."

also:
"[THYROID ACTING LIKE CAFFEINE] Not like caffeine, but if too much is taken suddenly, a person who has been deficient in thyroid is likely to experience an excess of adrenaline. Since the body normally produces about 4 mcg of T3 in an hour, taking 10 or 20 mcg at once is unphysiological."

Ray Peat was very conservative in his advice. My understanding has been that it is very important to take tiny tiny doses of T3 and to carefully monitor your response to it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ray Peat who suggested taking beta blockers to deal with heart palpitations, etc. He wasn't a fan of pharmaceutical drugs.

I'm hypothyroid, I was diagnosed 46 years ago. I've dealt with it for a very long time. I found Ray Peat's knowledge and advice to be immensely helpful because it gave me the self confidence to seek out a good endocrinologist to help me and to keep asking for increases in my prescription desiccated thyroid because I understood that my symptoms were showing me (and my endo) that I would benefit from a greater dose. With the help of my endo and Ray Peat's wisdom I recovered from crippling rheumatoid arthritis. I believe that if you are really sick, it is important to educate yourself and then seek out a good professional who knows what they are doing and who is willing to take the time to get your dosage optimized. This optimization process takes months. You have to stair-step the dose up over time so the body can acclimate to it gradually by reducing your stress hormones as it gets used to having the thyroid hormones available.

Hi thank u so much. I actually have received similar advice today in terms of increasing t3 very slowly and finding a dr who understands that. I am also going to buy Paul robinsons book how to recover from hypothyroid with t3. My issue is i am not sure how i am suppose to feel anymore after taking t3 - i will consider it a good sign if i don't react horrifically and take temperature readings. My current dr I had high hopes for as he was the only one to point out my adrenal insufficiency contributing to the problem. However he does not even look or consider my T3. I am pissed off because I'm on steroids now and need to do further testing, but need to take responsibility i took it at the time and i was desperate, albeit misinformed for my diagnosis. I will start with about 2 mg or so a day just to see as I am in a very unstable condition right now. I am also going to do the blood pressure test for my adrenals once i receive the equipment. thank u for ur help. I am off to find someone who understands this to treat my adrenals i need t3.

 

[mostlylurking]

I actually have received similar advice today in terms of increasing t3 very slowly and finding a dr who understands that

You need to focus your efforts of finding a competent endocrinologist to help you.

I am also going to buy Paul robinsons book how to recover from hypothyroid with t3.

But what if your problem is more complicated than that simple idea?

My issue is i am not sure how i am suppose to feel anymore after taking t3 - i will consider it a good sign if i don't react horrifically and take temperature readings.

You need to find a competent endocrinologist to help you.

My current dr I had high hopes for as he was the only one to point out my adrenal insufficiency contributing to the problem.

Your current doctor is probably correct on this point.

However he does not even look or consider my T3. I am pissed off because I'm on steroids now and need to do further testing, but need to take responsibility i took it at the time and i was desperate, albeit misinformed for my diagnosis.

Your adrenal problem complicates the issue. I would not have taken the steroids myself. I've had a terrible reaction to a single steroid injection (many years ago); it was for an inner ear infection. Six weeks later, I had developed an ovarian cyst the size of a grapefruit. My Ob/gyn put 2+2 together and explained to me the cause of the ovarian cyst was the steroid shot. He gave me a shot of progesterone and the cyst resolved within a few days.

I will start with about 2 mg or so a day just to see as I am in a very unstable condition right now.

I experimented with some T3 in 2015 before I found my endocrinologist. I took a tiny tiny bit. It gave me heart palpitations to the point that I could not get up off the ground after collapsing outside. My endo chewed me out about fooling around with it on my own; he said I could have found myself in the emergency room with atrial fibrillation.

My endo is on the far side of 83 and has over 50 years of experience treating hypothyroidism, etc. He's a really good doctor. Before finding him, I had developed rheumatoid arthritis and had lost the use of my thumbs (which is why I was playing around with the T3 on my own). I was trying to avoid having to go into assisted living (at age 65) because I couldn't take care of myself.

My endo changed the brand of my desiccated thyroid from Armour to NP Thyroid by Acella and he wound up doubling the dose from 90mg to 180mg. This took 9 months and blood testing and evaluation every 6 weeks where he increased my dose by a small amount each time until he was satisfied that the dose was optimized for my needs.

A short cut to finding a good endocrinologist is to ask your local pharmacists which doctors are prescribing NP Thyroid by Acella. Here is their website:

Information for Patients | NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP)

Looking for an alternative therapy to levothyroxine sodium? Find out if NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP) may be right for you.

npthyroid.com

Here's the info for practicioners, just click on the Enter link and read/watch the video:

NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP) Info for Healthcare Providers

Healthcare provider information for NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP), a naturally derived prescription thyroid medication for treating hypothyroidism.

npthyroid.com

I am also going to do the blood pressure test for my adrenals once i receive the equipment. thank u for ur help.

Get yourself a pulse/oxygen monitor (oximeter) too. Get a reliable thermometer too (good luck). You need to keep a record of your temperature and pulse to evaluate your progress.

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

Please note that other things can throw a ringer in the project of fixing your health with thyroid supplementation. I went through a period in 2020 when I had severe hypothyroid symptoms while I was taking my optimized NP Thyroid medication (180mg/day). I learned around that time that I had a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage which resulted in these symptoms: low body temperature, brain fog, high inflammation, lethargy. I also had an erratic pulse rate (it was all over the place). Because both thiamine and thyroid hormone are needed for the mitochondria to make body energy (ATP), deficiencies in either of them can cause very similar symptoms.

My inflammation at that time was very bad; 500mg of aspirin didn't help at all. I remembered that Haidut had said that thiamine will knock out lactic acidosis (inflammation from lactic acid) so I tried 300mg of thiamine hcl, taken with water, around 2:00pm (away from food). Within 45 minutes, all my pain disappeared, my head cleared, and my body temperature increased a full degree to normal (98.6). It made a huge impression on me so I researched thiamine. I learned a lot. (I've posted about it on the forum if you're interested.)

At that time, I had thought that my thyroid medication had stopped working so I got my thyroid blood tests run 2 months early. They showed that my T3 was dangerously high. I did not have hyperthyroid symptoms; I had hypothyroid symptoms. My endo explained that hyperthyroidism (caused by too much thyroid med in my case) causes thiamine deficiency which was causing my problems. So he lowered my NP Thyroid med amount down from 180mg to 135mg. I continued to increase my thiamine hcl dose and I recovered my health. I'm still on the 135mg of NP Thyroid. Things can get complicated. I would never have been able to figure out my problem on my own; I needed my endocrinologist to help me.

I am off to find someone who understands this to treat my adrenals i need t3.

Ask your local pharmacists which doctors prescribe NP Thyroid by Acella. This will shortcut the time it takes to find a competent doctor.

for your consideration:

Magnesium for Adrenal Fatigue

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hypothyroid people "cannot hold onto their magnesium" according to Ray Peat.

Thiamine improves the tolerance for magnesium. Things get tangled up as multiple deficiencies can exist simultaneously.

Why Thiamine Supplementation Requires Magnesium - Hormones Matter

Magnesium is absolutely essential for normal thiamine activity in the body. Thiamine activation depends upon sufficient magnesium stores.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I take high dose thiamine hcl (1 gram, 2Xday) and magnesium glycinate (3100mg/day (=3/8teas, 2Xday).

 

[ratqueen]

You need to focus your efforts of finding a competent endocrinologist to help you.

But what if your problem is more complicated than that simple idea?

You need to find a competent endocrinologist to help you.

Your current doctor is probably correct on this point.

Your adrenal problem complicates the issue. I would not have taken the steroids myself. I've had a terrible reaction to a single steroid injection (many years ago); it was for an inner ear infection. Six weeks later, I had developed an ovarian cyst the size of a grapefruit. My Ob/gyn put 2+2 together and explained to me the cause of the ovarian cyst was the steroid shot. He gave me a shot of progesterone and the cyst resolved within a few days.

I experimented with some T3 in 2015 before I found my endocrinologist. I took a tiny tiny bit. It gave me heart palpitations to the point that I could not get up off the ground after collapsing outside. My endo chewed me out about fooling around with it on my own; he said I could have found myself in the emergency room with atrial fibrillation.

My endo is on the far side of 83 and has over 50 years of experience treating hypothyroidism, etc. He's a really good doctor. Before finding him, I had developed rheumatoid arthritis and had lost the use of my thumbs (which is why I was playing around with the T3 on my own). I was trying to avoid having to go into assisted living (at age 65) because I couldn't take care of myself.

My endo changed the brand of my desiccated thyroid from Armour to NP Thyroid by Acella and he wound up doubling the dose from 90mg to 180mg. This took 9 months and blood testing and evaluation every 6 weeks where he increased my dose by a small amount each time until he was satisfied that the dose was optimized for my needs.

A short cut to finding a good endocrinologist is to ask your local pharmacists which doctors are prescribing NP Thyroid by Acella. Here is their website:

Information for Patients | NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP)

Looking for an alternative therapy to levothyroxine sodium? Find out if NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP) may be right for you.

npthyroid.com

Here's the info for practicioners, just click on the Enter link and read/watch the video:

NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP) Info for Healthcare Providers

Healthcare provider information for NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP), a naturally derived prescription thyroid medication for treating hypothyroidism.

npthyroid.com

Get yourself a pulse/oxygen monitor (oximeter) too. You need to keep a record of your temperature and pulse to evaluate your progress.

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

Please note that other things can throw a ringer in the project of fixing your health with thyroid supplementation. I went through a period in 2020 when I had severe hypothyroid symptoms while I was taking my optimized NP Thyroid medication (180mg/day). I learned around that time that I had a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage which resulted in these symptoms: low body temperature, brain fog, high inflammation, lethargy. I also had an erratic pulse rate (it was all over the place). Because both thiamine and thyroid hormone are needed for the mitochondria to make body energy (ATP), deficiencies in either of them can cause very similar symptoms.

My inflammation at that time was very bad; 500mg of aspirin didn't help at all. I remembered that Haidut had said that thiamine will knock out lactic acidosis (inflammation from lactic acid) so I tried 300mg of thiamine hcl, taken with water, around 2:00pm (away from food). Within 45 minutes, all my pain disappeared, my head cleared, and my body temperature increased a full degree to normal (98.6). It made a huge impression on me so I researched thiamine. I learned a lot. (I've posted about it on the forum if you're interested.)

At that time, I had thought that my thyroid medication had stopped working so I got my thyroid blood tests run 2 months early. They showed that my T3 was dangerously high. I did not have hyperthyroid symptoms; I had hypothyroid symptoms. My endo explained that hyperthyroidism (caused by too much thyroid med in my case) causes thiamine deficiency which was causing my problems. So he lowered my NP Thyroid med amount down from 180mg to 135mg. I continued to increase my thiamine hcl dose and I recovered my health. I'm still on the 135mg of NP Thyroid. Things can get complicated. I would never have been able to figure out my problem on my own; I needed my endocrinologist to help me.

Ask your local pharmacists which doctors prescribe NP Thyroid by Acella. This will shortcut the time it takes to find a competent doctor.

for your consideration:

Magnesium for Adrenal Fatigue

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hypothyroid people "cannot hold onto their magnesium" according to Ray Peat.

Thiamine improves the tolerance for magnesium. Things get tangled up as multiple deficiencies can exist simultaneously.

Why Thiamine Supplementation Requires Magnesium - Hormones Matter

Magnesium is absolutely essential for normal thiamine activity in the body. Thiamine activation depends upon sufficient magnesium stores.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I take high dose thiamine hcl (1 gram, 2Xday) and magnesium glycinate (3100mg/day (=3/8teas, 2Xday).

hi thanks again. Actually today I have found a great endocrinologist who specializes in adrenal issues and thyroid today. He's was recommended to me by someone else with adrenal issues. Thank you very much for the advice and tips - i can't figure it out on my own you're right i need a competent endo. He also prescribes t3 so i am not worried about that. I will look into the thiamine problem and if this doesn't work out with my current endo I am waiting for i will look for a recommendation based through Acella. Thank you very much for your help I appreciate it.

 

[mostlylurking]

@ratqueen

hi thanks again. Actually today I have found a great endocrinologist who specializes in adrenal issues and thyroid today. He's was recommended to me by someone else with adrenal issues. Thank you very much for the advice and tips - i can't figure it out on my own you're right i need a competent endo. He also prescribes t3 so i am not worried about that. I will look into the thiamine problem and if this doesn't work out with my current endo I am waiting for i will look for a recommendation based through Acella. Thank you very much for your help I appreciate it.

You're welcome.

additional articles for your consideration:

Thiamine and Thyroid Health

Thiamine, also known as vitamin B1, is a water-soluble essential vitamin that is required for glucose production. While its role in glucose metabolism is largely understood, there isn’t a lot of research on the relationship between thiamine and thyroid health. But this doesn’t mean that a...

www.naturalendocrinesolutions.com

Thiamine and Hashimoto's thyroiditis: a report of three cases - PubMed

As the administration of thiamine led to a partial or complete regression of the fatigue and related disorders, it is reasonable to infer that the administration of large quantities of thiamine restores thiamine-dependent processes. The mild thiamine deficiency suggested by fatigue and related...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

THIAMINE DEFICIENCY IN HYPERTHYROIDISM

Experimental or spontaneous hyperthyroidism increases the rate of cell metabolism and thus leads to a higher requirement of essential factors involved in the breakdown and resynthesis of metabolites. Among these factors the important role of thiamine is well established. The phosphorylated form...

jamanetwork.com

Thiamine and Hormonal Balance: The Vital Connection

Explore the vital connection between thiamine & hormonal balance. Discover benefits for stress, thyroid, aging adults, pregnancy & more.

www.myconciergemd.com

(I don't know anything about this doctor; I'm just including this link because I thought the article was pretty good.)