How bad is finasteride?

[Mister]

@ChemHead what will you do now against PFS? Can you tell us your detailed regimen?

Btw, if you ever want to join the pfs whatsapp group to share your insights pls do:

PFS Recovery

WhatsApp Group Invite

chat.whatsapp.com

 

[golder]

What about topical only application to the scalp without microneeeling? Surely barely any would make it systemic and we would get the hair loss benefits?

 

[Mister]

What about topical only application to the scalp without microneeeling? Surely barely any would make it systemic and we would get the hair loss benefits?

Best article about topical fina and reducing risks:

Topical Finasteride: The Best Dosage for Maximizing Regrowth and Minimizing Side Effects

Finasteride is among the most effective drugs for androgenic alopecia. And while side effects are often overstated, it can lead to reduced libido or lowered sperm counts in some men. For this reason, many choose

perfecthairhealth.com

 

[golder]

Best article about topical fina and reducing risks:

Topical Finasteride: The Best Dosage for Maximizing Regrowth and Minimizing Side Effects

Finasteride is among the most effective drugs for androgenic alopecia. And while side effects are often overstated, it can lead to reduced libido or lowered sperm counts in some men. For this reason, many choose

perfecthairhealth.com

Great read, thanks. 0.02mg exposure sounds a lot safer for us that desperately want to keep our hair.

 

[FinVictim]

The PSSD patients likely experienced the same issue because it probably is the same issue. Dopaminergic function seems to be at the center stage of both of these conditions. It may just be that they're induced in two different ways. With PFS, you're disrupting dopaminergic signaling by disrupting the protective anti-estrogenic, anti-progestogenic, anti-prolactinogenic effects that DHT has and this likely leads to permanent changes in the regulatory areas of the brain that prevents both central signaling that leads to expression of 5AR and also signaling which is responsible for normal steroidogenesis. With PSSD, you may be reaching a similar state, but by directly interfering with dopaminergic function rather that doing it via 5AR/DHT. There seems to be an almost interdependent relationship between DHT and dopaminergic signaling, where both are required for both of their own sustained existence and, if you knock one of them out, they both go.

This is also probably why I've consistently experienced better sleep, a change in perception of time, and very clear and vivid dreams when taking DHT. When I say a change in perception of time, I mean that the day feels significantly longer. I also slept significantly less time while feeling as if I slept significantly longer. So, I would sleep maybe 6 hours, but feel like I had just slept 10-12 hours with multiple vivid dreams.

I also experienced significantly better digestion and gut motility from the DHT.

As far as dose, all I can say is that when I fully recovered from PFS 4 years ago, I used about a gram/week for around 3 weeks. Unfortunately, I never tried using that much in the past 2-3 years, but it still had the effects I mentioned above... It just likely didn't push me into recovery because I didn't use it long enough to begin reversal of the epigenetic changes that lead to PFS in the first place. I used about a gram the last time, but only used it for maybe 8 or 9 days and then ran out. That, alone, was enough to improve digestion and sleep for a short period of time and, a couple weeks after stopping, it was also enough to induce a strong rebound effect on the HPTA and I had testicular pain/soreness and higher steroidogenesis, faster/thicker facial hair growth and oily skin.

I think the key to getting out of this state is to expose yourself to enough DHT or 5a-reduced androgen for long enough to induce epigenetic changes so that when you do stop using it and when you do experience a rebound in steroidogenesis, it becomes self-sustaining rather than reverting back to the previous state where estrogenic and prolactinogenic activity dominate androgenic and dopaminergic activity, respectively. You're just using DHT like training wheels to get your body to reestablish/restore signaling and feedback mechanisms which are responsible for sustaining 5AR expression and dopaminergic signaling for regulation of estrogenic activity, as well as regulation of prolactinogenic activity.

If I had simply taken DHT for much longer at least one of the few times I've used it in the past couple years, it's very probable that I wouldn't still be in this state. So, try a 4 week cycle and then see what happens. You should get the HPTA rebound 2-3 weeks after stopping, you should experience testicular discomfort and even increase in testicular volume, and things should continue improving and maintaining thereafter. If you feel like you're slipping back into the state you were in previously, get back on it and try again until it sticks.

Yeah this is exactly what I've been trying to do doing intense resistance training. Trying to get DHT peaks to get the positive feedback loop fired up. See post 5 in my story on PH below. Probably resistance training does not cause high enough peaks if this theory is right.

I will see what happens in the weeks after stopping the 50mg per day. I will probably try cycles of higher doses in the future.

I hope you're right about the dopaminergic mechanism. Dopaminergic function is definitely affected since I haven't been able to feel general desire or satisfaction for all my PFS years.

19 days of 1mg in March 2020 - My Story

Update January 2022 It’s been six weeks off mesterolone(proviron). I used 200mg per day for 6 weeks from 03 nov 2021 - 15 dec 2022. Still using hCG 300IU every 3 days. I haven’t noticed the slightest difference yet. Hopefully it will still come. I will set up a form once I know more for both...

forum.propeciahelp.com

 

[ChemHead]

What about topical only application to the scalp without microneeeling? Surely barely any would make it systemic and we would get the hair loss benefits?

Topical finasteride is the reason why I have PFS again. I went from fully recovered to completely cucked again after a month of topical microdosing.

 

[Mister]

Topical finasteride is the reason why I have PFS again. I went from fully recovered to completely cucked again after a month of topical microdosing.

How much topical fina did you use?

 

[ChemHead]

How much topical fina did you use?

Very little... around 0.05 mg per day, but I'll be conservative and say between 0.05 and 0.1 mg per day.

 

[golder]

Are there any techniques we could use (other than just using a very small amount, to ensure the finasteride doesn’t go systemic? Maybe only leave on for 15 mins before shower, no micro needling beforehand? Using a different carrier solution?

 

[Mister]

Very little... around 0.05 mg per day, but I'll be conservative and say between 0.05 and 0.1 mg per day.

Interesting, in the article I posted:

At 0.091 mg of topical finasteride daily, no systemic effects on DHT were observed.[6]

Just shows how fcked fina is and how we can't trust it even in the smallest dosage.

 

[golder]

Interesting, in the article I posted:

At 0.091 mg of topical finasteride daily, no systemic effects on DHT were observed.[6]

Just shows how fcked fina is and how we can't trust it even in the smalles dosage.

We can’t trust it because 0.09mg topical had no effect on systemic DHT readings? What do you mean?

 

[Mister]

We can’t trust it because 0.09mg topical had no effect on systemic DHT readings? What do you mean?

No but because Chemhead still crashed on a topical microdose even though the study in the article stated it should have no systemic dht impact.

 

[ChemHead]

Interesting, in the article I posted:

At 0.091 mg of topical finasteride daily, no systemic effects on DHT were observed.[6]

Just shows how fcked fina is and how we can't trust it even in the smalles dosage.

yeah, fin is incredibly potent. I would probably say that, for most people, that study is probably correct. however, there's never really "no systemic effects".. they're just not perceived by most people. we know that for people that experience severe sides or PFS from fin, though, this study wouldn't really reflect that.

 

[Mister]

yeah, fin is incredibly potent. I would probably say that, for most people, that study is probably correct. however, there's never really "no systemic effects".. they're just not perceived by most people. we know that for people that experience severe sides or PFS from fin, though, this study wouldn't really reflect that.

Yeah and bloodwork doesn't really reflect the possible effects since:

"The most potent androgen, dehydrotestosterone (DHT), is mainly synthesized in peripheral tissues, including skin ."

Steroidogenesis in the skin: implications for local immune functions

The skin has developed a hierarchy of systems that encompasses the skin immune and local steroidogenic activities in order to protect the body against the external environment and biological factors and to maintain local homeostasis. Most recently it ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[golder]

Fair enough. I think this one is just a complete no. Is there any other safer milder anti DHT compounds we could use locally on the scalp?

 

[Peatfan69]

Very little... around 0.05 mg per day, but I'll be conservative and say between 0.05 and 0.1 mg per day.

Once you recovered did your hair loss come back?

 

[ChemHead]

Once you recovered did your hair loss come back?

Yes, but also no lol. When my 5AR expression finally came back to the fullest extent, I had a 2-3 week period where I had hyperandrogenic symptoms. I had really itchy and irritated skin all over various parts of my body and an itchy, red, irritated scalp and face. My scalp and hair follicles felt inflamed and hair loss accelerated during that time. I felt exactly how I did as a teenager and I assumed that it was what life was going to be like for me thereafter. However, to my surprise, after that period, my aromatase expression increased significantly and all these symptoms went away. I had incredible looking and feeling skin and the hair loss completely stopped. I don't know how to fully explain this yet and I probably won't be able to until I can actually replicate it, but it may have been related to my change in diet.

 

[Peatfan69]

Yes, but also no lol. When my 5AR expression finally came back to the fullest extent, I had a 2-3 week period where I had hyperandrogenic symptoms. I had really itchy and irritated skin all over various parts of my body and an itchy, red, irritated scalp and face. My scalp and hair follicles felt inflamed and hair loss accelerated during that time. I felt exactly how I did as a teenager and I assumed that it was what life was going to be like for me thereafter. However, to my surprise, after that period, my aromatase expression increased significantly and all these symptoms went away. I had incredible looking and feeling skin and the hair loss completely stopped. I don't know how to fully explain this yet and I probably won't be able to until I can actually replicate it, but it may have been related to my change in diet.

Isn't 5AR1 and 5AR2 on opposite ratios? i.e. increasing 5AR2 doesn't mean 5AR1 in the brain will go up and could possibly go down? To offset that wouldn't DHT + progesterone be the answer to support both pathways?

 

[jondoeuk]

Are there any techniques we could use (other than just using a very small amount, to ensure the finasteride doesn’t go systemic? Maybe only leave on for 15 mins before shower, no micro needling beforehand? Using a different carrier solution?

Either don't microneedle (which has been shown to increase the absorption of minoxidil, so I don't see why fin would be any different) or if you, wait 24 hours before applying fin. As for only leaving it on for say 15 mins, that is too little, so would be a waste of money.

 

[jondoeuk]

Fair enough. I think this one is just a complete no. Is there any other safer milder anti DHT compounds we could use locally on the scalp?

Another option would be to use a nonsteroidal antiandrogen, such as pyrilutamide.