How would one remove organophosphates from the body? My time is running out

[pubh12]

I’ve been told I have a disease mimicking gulf war syndrome and have been having incredible breathing difficulty for over a year. I’ve been severely poisoned with something. I detailed it more in this thread. Please read the first post on it.

“You have a disease mimicking Gulf war Syndrome”.

@charlie How quickly does niacin start moving heavy metals out? I’ve never heard of it being a chelator before. From my experience almost immediately.

raypeatforum.com

My main issue seems to be acetylcholinesterase inhibiton. Im exploring OSR soon and have tried flush niacin a bit but am having intense reactions to the Niacin.

If I had some kind of organophosphate accumulation going on, how would I fix that? Or can It be fixed ? I don’t recall ever coming in contact with anything that could do this , but it all happned after I started taking Huperzine a. There’s debate that mestinon caused GWS and this acts similarity to that acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.

15 months of pure hell. Right now I’m in discussion of receiving MAID (medically assisted death).

I’m running out of time before this kills me and I’d rather go out on my own terms instead of this living hell. Been breathing through a straw for 15 MONTHS without one moment of normalcy. I know smokers with major COPD who breath better than me. At least they have medication that helps it.

 

[PopSocket]

Hey man. Tough situation, I am sending positive energy your way.

For some unknown poisoning I would definitely try Chlorine Dioxide if it can remove this particular chemical. I would start very slow just to check for any negative reaction.

If the reaction is OK, then rectal enema with very pure (distilled, RO water) and some Chlorine Dioxide solution , if it is 3000ppm - 4-5ml in 250ml water is enough otherwise it can burn you a bit. You need to test for yourself how far you can go. This will increase CD concentration in the blood to almost IV levels and help the liver. Chlorine Dioxide can be used to remove heavy metals from water systems/tanks when a proper PH is reached. They usually acidify the solution. Niacin should help you acidify the blood if you don't use a buffer. This is all theory. BTW never ever breath it as it can cause issues especially if breathing is already compromised. Once in the gut/blood - no problem.

It does remove some poisons but does not react with others but because of its electron drawing potential it can oxidize a lot of stuff that the body sometimes has problems with. So who knows ? Ozone is a stronger oxidizer and works differently but I think it could oxidize stuff that chlorine dioxide cannot and vice versa.

 

[pubh12]

Hey man. Tough situation, I am sending positive energy your way.

For some unknown poisoning I would definitely try Chlorine Dioxide if it can remove this particular chemical. I would start very slow just to check for any negative reaction.

If the reaction is OK, then rectal enema with very pure (distilled, RO water) and some Chlorine Dioxide solution , if it is 3000ppm - 4-5ml in 250ml water is enough otherwise it can burn you a bit. You need to test for yourself how far you can go. This will increase CD concentration in the blood to almost IV levels and help the liver. Chlorine Dioxide can be used to remove heavy metals from water systems/tanks when a proper PH is reached. They usually acidify the solution. Niacin should help you acidify the blood if you don't use a buffer. This is all theory. BTW never ever breath it as it can cause issues especially if breathing is already compromised. Once in the gut/blood - no problem.

It does remove some poisons but does not react with others but because of its electron drawing potential it can oxidize a lot of stuff that the body sometimes has problems with. So who knows ? Ozone is a stronger oxidizer and works differently but I think it could oxidize stuff that chlorine dioxide cannot and vice versa.

Is having an oxidizer something I want ? I was about to start OSR which is oxidative stress reliever - it’s supposed to help with mercury.

Thanks for your advice and help. I’m not familiar with people consuming chlorine dioxide but I will look into it more

 

[PopSocket]

Is having an oxidizer something I want ?

I have no idea what you need. But the body oxidizes poisons in order to get rid of them. Taking something that could potentially prevent this process from working properly MIGHT not be the best idea.

Wonder if the oxidative stress reliever is helping with mercury by lowering its levels or by blocking some of its effects on the tissues ? Also, I think both therapies COULD potentially be combined with some hours apart from each other depending on half life of the compounds. Chlorine Dioxide lasts around 40mins in the body. Oxidize some of the poison lets say for several hours straight, then wait 40 mins and take the other compound to block the effects of what is left of the poison.

Taurine might also be a good thing to help with oxidative stress without blocking oxidation like some very strong antioxidants.

 

[pubh12]

I have no idea what you need. But the body oxidizes poisons in order to get rid of them. Taking something that could potentially prevent this process from working properly MIGHT not be the best idea.

Wonder if the oxidative stress reliever is helping with mercury by lowering its levels or by blocking some of its effects on the tissues ? Also, I think both therapies COULD potentially be combined with some hours apart from each other depending on half life of the compounds.

It’s apparently just forms a very tight bond with the mercury and you excrete it, lowering its levels.

I have no idea what you need. But the body oxidizes poisons in order to get rid of them. Taking something that could potentially prevent this process from working properly MIGHT not be the best idea.

Wonder if the oxidative stress reliever is helping with mercury by lowering its levels or by blocking some of its effects on the tissues ? Also, I think both therapies COULD potentially be combined with some hours apart from each other depending on half life of the compounds. Chlorine Dioxide lasts around 40mins in the body. Oxidize some of the poison lets say for several hours straight, then wait 40 mins and take the other compound to block the effects of what is left of the poison.

Taurine might also be a good thing to help with oxidative stress without blocking oxidation like some very strong antioxidants.

God, I didn’t realize that. There’s always something. Now I’m kind of second guessing it. I wish there were doctors I could consult about a situation like this but I can’t find any.

 

[PopSocket]

God, I didn’t realize that. There’s always something. Now I’m kind of second guessing it. I wish there were doctors I could consult about a situation like this but I can’t find any.

I would start from the absolute basic - Taurine is very protective of the liver and lungs. Niacin is protective too. Also about 30-40 grams of gelatin per day together with the niacin in 3-4 settings to make sure the blood levels are always up on all those aminos and some Creatine ~1.5-2grams. Magnesium is a must too, especially when you take Niacin. if you have magnesium hydroxide and soda machine - magnesium bicarbonate is the best. If not, whatever magneisum will be better than nothing. At least 400mg per day elemental.

The idea is to help the body by supplying it with some raw materials it synthesizes 24/7 and let it focus on detox by freeing up methyl groups.

Also I would test thyroid function if it is low, t3/t4 might be very very helpful.

Then whatever you intuition tells you to add on top of this. Ask for some inner guidance and go with it. I think as there is doubt what the actual underlying reason for your situation, it will be hard for someone online to help you.

I hope you find some doctor that can help further to deal with the situation.

 

[PopSocket]

by the way, please update us what is going on.

 

[Mary Lyn]

@pubh12

So sorry to hear of your plight. I am heavily poisoned first with mercury at 10 months old and nearly died, with later exposures, and then at age 40 when a company working for our housing providers came and sprayed the house with pesticide - carbamate.

Our 11 year old son was in and out of the emergency room with breathing problems which they called asthma, as we had not cottoned onto the real reason.

Then a few years later we moved into a brand new house and it nearly killed me as I developed the full syndrome of environmental illness, allergic to everything. I nearly died again and lost a huge amount of weight, being unable to even tolerate the chlorine coming out of the taps.

I was given divine help I believe to go on a strict macrobiotic diet so did. mainly organic short grain brown rice pressure cooked with some aduki beans, kelp, some veg. It saved my life. I have eaten organic since then and think it has helped a lot.

Macrobiotic teaching says that 10 days of nothing but the pressure cooked rice, with extra water to make it softer, well chewed, will cure anything.

There is the arsenic problem though rice from some areas are safer and ways to reduce this.

 

[Mary Lyn]

macrobiotic 10 day brown rice diet - Pretraži Videozapisi

www.bing.com

 

[Mary Lyn]

Sorry if you find them too awful to listen to!

I am thinking of doing it myself so am looking for better info.

 

[Dolomite]

Karen Hurd’s daughter was poisoned as a baby or toddler and Karen used psyllium in small doses throughout the day to soak it up and remove the poison in bile. She has protocols and gives consultations. If I were in your place I would ask her for help:

 

[Guille Yacante]

@pubh12

Man, I've been writing about this for months in this forum.

Organophosphates have somewhat a mid-range half-life in general, like about weeks or a few months.

Their action is to irreversibly inhibit acetylcholinesterase.

So I have been speaking about this, if it was your case, that you really were affected by these poisons, then the way is to use to acetylcholinesterase reactivators and stop looking about other ways to fix a problem that can only be fixed with these things.

But the best would be always to use some hemodialysis too.

The most probable is that you be coming affected by more than one kind of poison, like the ones that simply don't go out of the body in a lifetime if they are not helped in their way out through losing some blood, sweating it heavily in a sauna room, or the best, and what I suggest, filtering and cleaning the blood with hemodialysis.

Please, read my writings.

To get access to these things we have to demand them.

Do never think about what you said, of the "assisted death", that's what they want to bring us to, that's learned helplessness.

And pay attention if you have lost a lot of weight in this time. This kind of poisons are lipophilic and if a person was to lose weight, the poisons would be flushed into the bloodstream.

Because of what you have written, it seems that you got poisoned with one of those supplements.

The key is this one:

Understanding we are in the 21st century, and everything should be determined by physical-chemical analyses.

I got poisoned with something that should be safe too, with some caffeinated product, and I see they are still selling it in my country like nothing happened.

If a person has irreversible acetylcholinesterase inhibition, and is offered anything but the reactivators, seems like complicity to me.

If the panacea to a lot of chronic illnesses is simply cleaning the blood and the cells, and it is ignored and hidden in plain sight, it seems to me that it is worthy of bringing the Third World War.

A lot of ***t people are constantly looking the other way, voluntary ignoring what is for the common good, just to not get in the middle of what is today paying the bills of others.

If they are afraid of mafias, they should be afraid of the people, whom they have never served. That's the way to make it fair.

A lot of people they just do things out of fear of death. So if they are presented death from both parts, from both not pleasing the mafias and defrauding the people, then it would be fair and we would be able to know who is who.

 

[Apple]

I got poisoned with something that should be safe too, with some caffeinated product, and I see they are still selling it in my country like nothing happened.

What product was that ?

 

[Guille Yacante]

What product was that ?

Yerba mate, an Argentinian and South American symbol.

 

[Apple]

Yerba mate, an Argentinian and South American symbol.

hm...what's wrong about yerba mate? (organic)

 

[pubh12]

@pubh12

Man, I've been writing about this for months in this forum.

Organophosphates have somewhat a mid-range half-life in general, like about weeks or a few months.

Their action is to irreversibly inhibit acetylcholinesterase.

So I have been speaking about this, if it was your case, that you really were affected by these poisons, then the way is to use to acetylcholinesterase reactivators and stop looking about other ways to fix a problem that can only be fixed with these things.

But the best would be always to use some hemodialysis too.

The most probable is that you be coming affected by more than one kind of poison, like the ones that simply don't go out of the body in a lifetime if they are not helped in their way out through losing some blood, sweating it heavily in a sauna room, or the best, and what I suggest, filtering and cleaning the blood with hemodialysis.

Please, read my writings.

To get access to these things we have to demand them.

Do never think about what you said, of the "assisted death", that's what they want to bring us to, that's learned helplessness.

And pay attention if you have lost a lot of weight in this time. This kind of poisons are lipophilic and if a person was to lose weight, the poisons would be flushed into the bloodstream.

Because of what you have written, it seems that you got poisoned with one of those supplements.

The key is this one:

Understanding we are in the 21st century, and everything should be determined by physical-chemical analyses.

I got poisoned with something that should be safe too, with some caffeinated product, and I see they are still selling it in my country like nothing happened.

If a person has irreversible acetylcholinesterase inhibition, and is offered anything but the reactivators, seems like complicity to me.

If the panacea to a lot of chronic illnesses is simply cleaning the blood and the cells, and it is ignored and hidden in plain sight, it seems to me that it is worthy of bringing the Third World War.

A lot of ***t people are constantly looking the other way, voluntary ignoring what is for the common good, just to not get in the middle of what is today paying the bills of others.

If they are afraid of mafias, they should be afraid of the people, whom they have never served. That's the way to make it fair.

A lot of people they just do things out of fear of death. So if they are presented death from both parts, from both not pleasing the mafias and defrauding the people, then it would be fair and we would be able to know who is who.

Are there any Acetylcholinesterase reactivitors that you can recommend because im having trouble finding any that aren’t prescription. I’d never be able to obtain hemodialysis in Canada , I csnt prove to them I have this.

 

[webbt]

This is not meant to be taken as medical advice.


1. Prolonged fasting or modified fasting for resetting the system. (this isn't very peaty)
Prolonged fasting will stimulate stem cells throughout the body. Regeneration of cells such as the insulin-producing beta cells in diabetics has been reported, just as an example of it healing something chronic.
2. I'm aware of atropine having a connection with acetylcholine.
It blocks/counters acetylcholine.

Atropine leads to increased respiratory rate and depth of respiration, possibly due to the drug-induced bronchiolar dilatation rather than its mild effect on vagal excitation

Then I see a drug, curare, has a similar effect but it does have some mechanistic differences.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/76125

A safer drug, succinylcholine, replaced it.

All three of these have the potential to be very dangerous. Deadly even. The last two may not even have an effect orally so would have to rub into light wound or something. Because they each may have unique effects it could be that one doesn't help while another does or maybe none do.
3. Muscle relaxants
On your other thread you say "All my muscles including respiraotry muscles are constantly twitching."
Have you tried muscle relaxants?
atropine, curare, succinylcholine are actually muscle-relaxers

CBD may be worth a try as a natural muscle relaxer. The dose sometimes needs to be very high to get a therapeutic effect like with treating epilepsy.
thyroid hormone is required for magnesium to enter cells and relax them, I've heard. Maybe a protocol of T3/tyronene could get you out of this?

Topical magnesium chloride.
Bag breathing.
High dose single-bout of progesterone (after trying lower dose) with or without DHEA to balance it.
High dose gelatin, 50+ grams

4. A RPF thread I found

Acetylcholinesterase info (nightshade sensitivity)

Since there has been a lot of hype about choline lately, I thought I’d bring back some balance to the topic in talking about excessive acetylcholine. Having choline in the diet doesn’t necessarily cause too much acetylcholine but it is something to be aware of. I found this really interesting...

raypeatforum.com

"-Medicines for poisoning by organophosphates , for epilepsy, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, muscle relaxants such as succinylcholine and mivacurium, cocaine"

5. lidocaine
Is Ray Peat approved and acts against acetylcholine and helps breathing

Lidocaine directly relaxes airway smooth muscle by decreasing [Ca2+]i. In addition, lidocaine inhibits the ACh-induced increase of Ca2+ sensitivity of the contractile apparatus, although it has little effect on Ca2+ sensitivity during high K+ depolarization.

6. quinine

Quinidine exerts anticholinergic effects which have been ascribed to atropine-like properties of the drug.

It could be demonstrated that the compounds blocked acetylcholine (ACh)-evoked responses in Xenopus laevis oocytes expressing the adult nAChR composed of αβ𝜀δ subunits in a concentration-dependent manner, with a ranked potency of quinine (IC50 = 1.70 μM), chloroquine (IC50 = 2.22 μM) and quinidine (IC50 = 3.96 μM)... The efficacy of the block by quinine was independent of the ACh concentration. Therefore, quinine is proposed to inhibit ACh-evoked currents in a non-competitive manner. The present results add to the pharmacological characterization of muscle nAChRs and indicate that quinine is effective at the muscular nAChRs close to therapeutic blood concentrations required for the therapy and prophylaxis of nocturnal leg cramps, suggesting that the clinically proven efficacy of quinine could be based on targeting nAChRs.

The work of Dawes in this laboratory on quinidine substitutes led him to point out that quinine, quinidine and procaine antagonize the effect of acetylcholine on many types of tissue... Recently, de Elio has shown in this laboratory that procaine shares these properties, not only with quinidine, but also with atropine and with the analgesic ‘‘Pethidine (demerol)

it is Peaty and available at Idealabs

7. ephedrine
some research shows anti-ACh others don't.
It is available over the counter in Canada.

8. more
Hans has an article about it. There is a pro and anti list.

The high acetylcholine syndrome » TESTONATION

Could acetylcholine be the root of your mental or physical symptoms? Acetylcholine is the primary neurotransmitter of the parasympathetic nervous systems, but is also involved with the sympathetic nervous system, such as assisting with muscle contraction, vasodilation to the skin and sweating...

testonation.com

nebulizer, to administer things directly into lungs, with pH and salinity and osmolarity controlled.

anti-spasmodics like passionflower

The methanol extract of the leaves of P. incarnata was evaluated for its antiasthmatic effects against acetylcholine chloride (Ach)-induced-bronchospasm in guinea-pigs at doses of 50, 100 and 200 mg/kg. Using a 7-day treatment regimen, significant prevention of dyspnoea-related-convulsions was noted in the animals treated with a 100 mg/kg dose of this extract. No preventive effect was exhibited by the 50 mg/kg dose and at a higher dose, i.e. 200 mg/kg, the preventive effects against Ach-chloride-induced-dyspnoea were also reduced.

quinine is an antispasmodic too and atropine (remember to be careful).

 

[pubh12]

This is not meant to be taken as medical advice.


1. Prolonged fasting or modified fasting for resetting the system. (this isn't very peaty)
Prolonged fasting will stimulate stem cells throughout the body. Regeneration of cells such as the insulin-producing beta cells in diabetics has been reported, just as an example of it healing something chronic.
2. I'm aware of atropine having a connection with acetylcholine.
It blocks/counters acetylcholine.

Then I see a drug, curare, has a similar effect but it does have some mechanistic differences.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/76125

A safer drug, succinylcholine, replaced it.

All three of these have the potential to be very dangerous. Deadly even. The last two may not even have an effect orally so would have to rub into light wound or something. Because they each may have unique effects it could be that one doesn't help while another does or maybe none do.
3. Muscle relaxants
On your other thread you say "All my muscles including respiraotry muscles are constantly twitching."
Have you tried muscle relaxants?
atropine, curare, succinylcholine are actually muscle-relaxers

CBD may be worth a try as a natural muscle relaxer. The dose sometimes needs to be very high to get a therapeutic effect like with treating epilepsy.
thyroid hormone is required for magnesium to enter cells and relax them, I've heard. Maybe a protocol of T3/tyronene could get you out of this?

Topical magnesium chloride.
Bag breathing.
High dose single-bout of progesterone (after trying lower dose) with or without DHEA to balance it.
High dose gelatin, 50+ grams

4. A RPF thread I found

Acetylcholinesterase info (nightshade sensitivity)

Since there has been a lot of hype about choline lately, I thought I’d bring back some balance to the topic in talking about excessive acetylcholine. Having choline in the diet doesn’t necessarily cause too much acetylcholine but it is something to be aware of. I found this really interesting...

raypeatforum.com

"-Medicines for poisoning by organophosphates , for epilepsy, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, muscle relaxants such as succinylcholine and mivacurium, cocaine"

5. lidocaine
Is Ray Peat approved and acts against acetylcholine and helps breathing


6. quinine



it is Peaty and available at Idealabs

7. ephedrine
some research shows anti-ACh others don't.
It is available over the counter in Canada.

8. more
Hans has an article about it. There is a pro and anti list.

The high acetylcholine syndrome » TESTONATION

Could acetylcholine be the root of your mental or physical symptoms? Acetylcholine is the primary neurotransmitter of the parasympathetic nervous systems, but is also involved with the sympathetic nervous system, such as assisting with muscle contraction, vasodilation to the skin and sweating...

testonation.com

nebulizer, to administer things directly into lungs, with pH and salinity and osmolarity controlled.

anti-spasmodics like passionflower

quinine is an antispasmodic too and atropine (remember to be careful).

Thanks I will check into all of these.

I do recall trying muscle relaxers at the onset of this and it didn’t helpbut may try again. I’ve tried a bunch of Benadryl becasue it’s anticholinergic , would quinine or lidocaine work in a different way?

 

[webbt]

Thanks I will check into all of these.

I do recall trying muscle relaxers at the onset of this and it didn’t helpbut may try again. I’ve tried a bunch of Benadryl becasue it’s anticholinergic , would quinine or lidocaine work in a different way?

My understanding is that the mechanisms are distinct.

 

[Guille Yacante]

hm...what's wrong about yerba mate? (organic)

Yeah, the thing is that it has not been "organic", but systematically put poisons in, including organochlorines (genocide).