IODIDE - not - IODINE cure for many diseases? (With Ray qoutes)

[Peater]

These are the effects I've noticed so far, off the top of my head:
- (SSKI) Cured my arthritic shoulders, regained full movement

An interesting development today. I applied some transdermal magnesium chloride oil 50% this morning. I've taken magnesium in various forms (Including Magnoil) for years and years, so I include this point only to give a full picture)

Now, since posting on this thread I've maintained the SSKI protocol we spoke about and also added some Lugol's, both topical sporadically to the shoulder and daily oral. (up to 3 drops oral, many (10?) drops topical as I read only 10% or so gets absorbed).

Not 5 minutes ago, something happened in my shoulder - there was a clicking sound as I moved, and it's now got the least pain doing a particular movement it's had in 10+ years. (If you simulate doing a full range of movement overhead dumb-bell press that will give you an idea of the type of movement I use for 'diagnosing' my shoulder health).

I really am stunned. I need to see if this is permanent. I will be ecstatic if it is.

Edit to add: The only other thing I tried was once applying olive oil and Progest-E as I spoke about with @Rinse & rePeat but that was a quite a few days ago now. I haven't had a chance to try it again since. I have no idea if just one application would be enough to cause benefits some time later. I tagged you here rinse purely as you might find it interesting. I don't know your thoughts on iodine/iodide and certainly don't encourage anyone to go contrary to Dr Peat's work. (I am an idiot - do not do what I do, basically)

 

[Peater]

This could probably go in any one of the iodine threads but I've posted most here, so here goes. I believe this is extremely important.

From the book Iodine - Bringing Back The Universal Medicine

Amazingly, while medicine shuns iodine therapy, their most popular anti-fibrillation drug, Amiodarone, actually is iodine in a more toxic, sustained-release form. This drug can produce a smooth heartbeat when the body has accumulated about 1,500 mgs of iodine—the exact amount of iodine retained by your body when iodine fulfillment is achieved by natural supplementation with Prolamine iodine.

Unfortunately, Amiodarone is an extremely toxic form of iodine used by the medical profession. The side effects are often too great (and even life threatening) for most people to endure long enough to achieve a normal heartbeat. In addition, once you stop this drug, your original problem returns. Iodine therapy, on the other hand, fulfills the body’s needs safely, then maintains the smooth heartbeat with a low-maintenance dose.

Amiodarone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I know Peat wasn't keen on iodine, but to me the above sounds so similar to the toxic synthetic versions of progesterone and thyroid. But the mechanism of action appears to be a dubious attempt to saturate the heart with this Not-Iodine.

So...what if the heart was saturated with iodone?

 

[Jam]

Yep. Unfortunately, a lot of the "bad rep" iodine gets is actually due to the incomprehensible wide-spread use of the highly toxic amiodarone, ascribing its toxicity to the iodine molecules present in the chemical structure. A travesty.

 

[Peater]

Yep. Unfortunately, a lot of the "bad rep" iodine gets is actually due to the incomprehensible wide-spread use of the highly toxic amiodarone, ascribing its toxicity to the iodine molecules present in the chemical structure. A travesty.

I had no idea it was widely prescribed, I'm not surprised though given the corrupt pharma industry. Interesting snippet from the history section:

Based on Singh's work, the Argentinian physician Mauricio Rosenbaum began using amiodarone to treat his patients who have supraventricular and ventricular arrhythmias, with impressive results. Based on papers written by Rosenbaum developing Singh's theories, physicians in the United States began prescribing amiodarone to their patients with potentially life-threatening arrhythmias in the late 1970s.[49][50] By 1980, amiodarone was commonly prescribed throughout Europe for the treatment of arrhythmias, but in the U.S. amiodarone remained unapproved by the Food and Drug Administration, and physicians were forced to directly obtain amiodarone from pharmaceutical companies in Canada and Europe.[citation needed]

The FDA was reluctant to officially approve the use of amiodarone since initial reports had shown increased incidence of serious pulmonary side-effects of the drug. In the mid-1980s, the European pharmaceutical companies began putting pressure on the FDA to approve amiodarone by threatening to cut the supply to American physicians if it was not approved. In December 1985, amiodarone was approved by the FDA for the treatment of arrhythmias.[2][51] This makes amiodarone one of the few drugs approved by the FDA without rigorous randomized clinical trials.[citation needed]

The Strange History of Amiodarone

Amiodarone (Cordarone, Pacerone), the most effective and most toxic antiarrhythmic drug, has a unique very strange history.

www.verywellhealth.com

FDA Announces Amiodarone Recall & Amiodarone Lawsuit Revisited

An amiodarone recall was announced by the FDA. Thousands of clinical patients may have received the wrong drug plus updated lawsuit informati

www.mahanyertl.com

 

[Peater]

@Jam I also understand that the body can pull iodide BACK from thyroid hormones which is logical and makes sense as to why thyroid hormone is beneficial to some to supplement but the elephant in the room remains "What if they just..."

 

[Jam]

@Jam I also understand that the body can pull iodide BACK from thyroid hormones which is logical and makes sense as to why thyroid hormone is beneficial to some to supplement but the elephant in the room remains "What if they just..."

This is precisely what happens to a large extent during acute and chronic dis-ease. See:

Iodine Redistribution During Trauma, Sepsis, and Hibernation: An Evolutionarily Conserved Response to Severe Stress

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/10/roth-iodine-essential-element.html https://journals.lww.com/ccejournal/Fulltext/2020/10000/Iodine_Redistribution_During_Trauma,_Sepsis,_and.16.aspx The benefits of iodine — an element essential for life — are well established. As a key...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Peater]

This is precisely what happens to a large extent during acute and chronic dis-ease. See:

Iodine Redistribution During Trauma, Sepsis, and Hibernation: An Evolutionarily Conserved Response to Severe Stress

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/10/roth-iodine-essential-element.html https://journals.lww.com/ccejournal/Fulltext/2020/10000/Iodine_Redistribution_During_Trauma,_Sepsis,_and.16.aspx The benefits of iodine — an element essential for life — are well established. As a key...

raypeatforum.com

Very interesting, I missed this thread. Thanks!

I do wonder if Ray's earlier life thyroid problems made him (Understandably) especially "iodophobic" as the expression goes...he did the 'wheat germ' experiment on himself, it would be interesting to know what studies he looked at before that, for example. Was it ever documented?

 

[Peater]

@Makrosky @Jam Thanks for your help and everyone who contributes to the iodine debate. My latest results below. 150mg SSKI or 4 drops of 15% Lugols daily WITH SELENIUM does not appear to have destroyed my thyroid. How I wish Ray had self- experimented with this, and not wheat germ.

My TSH has indeed dropped and may continue to do so.

In the interests of clarity I will also add that I have been taking TUDCA which appears to have helped with Cholestasis (Self-diagnosed through symptoms.) which has cleared up. I also tried some turpentine to remove any liver flukes as I used to eat a lot of raw watercress salads. I mention the liver as of course this is related to T4 function. The main symptom of strong, random 'pin prick' points of itchiness has gone. (Bile salts in the skin)

I tried 10mg methylene blue for around a week as part of the liver 'diagnosis' but stopped this 2 weeks before the thyroid test.

Doctors comment:

I am pleased to report that all your results for your thyroid profile are within the normal ranges. Your thyroid hormones are normal as are your thyroid antibodies revealing no evidence of autoimmune thyroid disease.

You have low levels of inflammation, healthy iron stores and optimal levels of folate, B12 and vitamin D.

Previous results when I had just started:

CRP HS 0.432 mg/L
FERRITIN 142 ug/L
VITAMIN B12 - ACTIVE >150 pmol/L
VITAMIN D 99.6 nmol/L

TSH 7.33 mIU/L
FREE T3 4.34 pmol/L
FREE THYROXINE 15.9 pmol/L

THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES 14.6 kIU/L (0 - 115)
THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES <9 (0 - 34)

 

[Ras]

@Makrosky @Jam Thanks for your help and everyone who contributes to the iodine debate. My latest results below.

Thanks for posting these results.

 

[EvanHinkle]

Yeah, I echo @Ras so few folks follow up with such quality data. Very interesting results!

 

[Peater]

Thanks for posting these results.

Yeah, I echo @Ras so few folks follow up with such quality data. Very interesting results!

Thanks guys, i will probably do another one in a month or so just to confirm everything is still ok. My thanks go to everyone who has contributed to the "pro" iodine ideas as it's due to them i had the confidence to try it out.

 

[youngsinatra]

@Makrosky @Jam Thanks for your help and everyone who contributes to the iodine debate. My latest results below. 150mg SSKI or 4 drops of 15% Lugols daily WITH SELENIUM does not appear to have destroyed my thyroid. How I wish Ray had self- experimented with this, and not wheat germ.

My TSH has indeed dropped and may continue to do so.

In the interests of clarity I will also add that I have been taking TUDCA which appears to have helped with Cholestasis (Self-diagnosed through symptoms.) which has cleared up. I also tried some turpentine to remove any liver flukes as I used to eat a lot of raw watercress salads. I mention the liver as of course this is related to T4 function. The main symptom of strong, random 'pin prick' points of itchiness has gone. (Bile salts in the skin)

I tried 10mg methylene blue for around a week as part of the liver 'diagnosis' but stopped this 2 weeks before the thyroid test.

Doctors comment:



Previous results when I had just started:

CRP HS 0.432 mg/L
FERRITIN 142 ug/L
VITAMIN B12 - ACTIVE >150 pmol/L
VITAMIN D 99.6 nmol/L

TSH 7.33 mIU/L
FREE T3 4.34 pmol/L
FREE THYROXINE 15.9 pmol/L

THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES 14.6 kIU/L (0 - 115)
THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES <9 (0 - 34)

Interesting experiment. Who long did you do this? Also did you have hypothyroid symptoms and did those improve or resolve?

Interestingly that your FT4 and FT3 didn’t change that much. Many need FT3 at the upper quartile to feel good.

On my lab tests, a TSH above 2.5 is tagged as „grey area for subclinical hypothyroidism“.

When I had a TSH of 2.8-3.5 I had terrible hypo symptoms, which are now much much better with synthetic thyroid (esp. body temperature, skin, pulse), tho not everything is perfect, at a TSH of 0.96.

But symptoms resolving would be much more important than labs of course.

Recently chatted with someone on FB that is taking crazy high doses of iodine (if I remember correctly 500mg+/day for 4+ years) and her TSH hovers around 4-5 and still has hypo symptoms. So I don’t believe that iodine is the limiting factor for thyroid.

 

[Peater]

Interesting experiment. Who long did you do this? Also did you have hypothyroid symptoms and did those improve or resolve?

Interestingly that your FT4 and FT3 didn’t change that much. Many need FT3 at the upper quartile to feel good.

On my lab tests, a TSH above 2.5 is tagged as „grey area for subclinical hypothyroidism“.

When I had a TSH of 2.8-3.5 I had terrible hypo symptoms, which are now much much better with synthetic thyroid (esp. body temperature, skin, pulse), tho not everything is perfect, at a TSH of 0.96.

But symptoms resolving would be much more important than labs of course.

Recently chatted with someone on FB that is taking crazy high doses of iodine (if I remember correctly 500mg+/day for 4+ years) and her TSH hovers around 4-5 and still has hypo symptoms. So I don’t believe that iodine is the limiting factor for thyroid.

It's all detailed in this thread - although here are my very first thyroid test results again.

22 Jan 2021

It's very clear that it's not great, and all I wanted to do was see if iodine made any difference and if the "facts" about it annihilating the thyroid were true.

I've used numerous forms of thyroid over the years (Thyroid-S dessicated, generic T3 bodybuilding tabs, TyroMix and TyroNene). I never noticed any particular difference in mood, energy, body composition or existing issues, so something fundamental had to be missing. Having seen what a total sham the Wolfe-Chaikoff effect is, and finding that heart medication that is nothing more than 'dangerously modified iodine' made it an easier decision to try out SSKI/Lugols seriously.

I have noticed a 'full body' warmth, improving dramatically my cold hands and feet. Whether this is better circulation or metabolism I don't know but it's a welcome change. Other than that it's been a relatively low key supplement.

Is she taking selenium as well? Possibly her liver isn't allowing for good T4 conversion.

 

[EvanHinkle]

I just want to remind everyone too, (because people keep being very interchangeable about it): this thread was originally about Potassium Iodide, not iodine. I think it’s important we make the distinction.

I myself felt cold and hypothyroid on iodine when I tried it many years ago, but always get a warm sensation from potassium iodide. Just me personally.

 

[Peater]

This could probably go in any one of the iodine threads but I've posted most here, so here goes. I believe this is extremely important.

From the book Iodine - Bringing Back The Universal Medicine

Amazingly, while medicine shuns iodine therapy, their most popular anti-fibrillation drug, Amiodarone, actually is iodine in a more toxic, sustained-release form. This drug can produce a smooth heartbeat when the body has accumulated about 1,500 mgs of iodine—the exact amount of iodine retained by your body when iodine fulfillment is achieved by natural supplementation with Prolamine iodine.

Unfortunately, Amiodarone is an extremely toxic form of iodine used by the medical profession. The side effects are often too great (and even life threatening) for most people to endure long enough to achieve a normal heartbeat. In addition, once you stop this drug, your original problem returns. Iodine therapy, on the other hand, fulfills the body’s needs safely, then maintains the smooth heartbeat with a low-maintenance dose.

Amiodarone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I know Peat wasn't keen on iodine, but to me the above sounds so similar to the toxic synthetic versions of progesterone and thyroid. But the mechanism of action appears to be a dubious attempt to saturate the heart with this Not-Iodine.

So...what if the heart was saturated with iodone?

Yep. Unfortunately, a lot of the "bad rep" iodine gets is actually due to the incomprehensible wide-spread use of the highly toxic amiodarone, ascribing its toxicity to the iodine molecules present in the chemical structure. A travesty.

@Jam you might enjoy this little nugget I just found. Ray himself mentioned suffering from fibrillation here,


View: https://www.youtube.com/live/AOmIfzvasr0?feature=shared&t=6596


I just thought it was an interesting ailment as he was not in favour of iodide/iodine supplementation. Like we discussed I can only assume his body was pulling as much iodi*e as it could from the thyroid hormone he said helped to resolve it.

 

[Peater]

Vitamin E ameliorates iodine-induced cytotoxicity in thyroid - PubMed

Acute and excessive iodine supplementation leads to iodine-induced thyroid cytotoxicity. Excessive oxidative stress has been suggested to be one of the underlying mechanisms in the development of thyroid cytotoxicity. The aim of this study was to investigate whether vitamin E (VE), an important...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Found while looking for something else, had to share.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Because of contaminants in supplements I seldom recommend the oral use of any of them, except aspirin, which can be dissolved in warm water to remove most of the additives. In the winter I use vitamin D, but only on my skin in an oil. Using a thyroid supplement temporarily might help to lower your estrogen." -Ray Peat

“For many years, I have been seeing more symptoms relieved by stopping all the chemical supplements, than by using them.” -Ray Peat

“PUFA can react with iodine to make antithyroid compounds, so iodine deficiency is less likely when the diet is low in those." -Ray Peat

Dr. Ray Peat: “30 years ago, it was found that people in the US were getting about ten times more iodine than they needed. In the mountains of Mexico and in the Andes, and in a few other remote places, iodine deficiency still exists. Kelp and other sources of excess iodine can suppress the thyroid, so they definitely shouldn’t be used to treat hypothyroidism.”

The Myth of Iodine Deficiency: An Interview with Dr. Ray Peat – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

“It’s easy to recognize a chronic iodine deficiency, because it causes the thyroid gland to enlarge. Goiters can be caused in various ways, for example by being exposed to various goitrogens, including excess iodine, or by excessive estrogen and deficient progesterone, as well as by an iodine deficiency. “However, a chronic excess of iodine is harder to recognize, because it can produce a variety of degenerative changes. Measurement of the average daily iodine intake or excretion in the urine would be needed to confirm an excess. High iodine intake can suppress TSH, and since high TSH is pro-inflammatory, the iodine can have some protective anti-inflammatory actions, but in the long run, the thyroid suppression becomes a problem.” -Ray Peat


View: https://youtu.be/J3danCfUydM

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Most goiters now are from estrogen-like effects, but they used to be from iodine deficiency. Chronic excess iodine tends to cause thyroiditis, regardless of the gland’s size. The amounts used by Abraham and Flechas are much larger than this — very toxic doses, enough to cause severe thyroid problems.” -Ray Peat

“Guy Abraham and some of his followers claim that an iodine deficiency can be shown by the quick disappearance of a spot of iodine painted on the skin. The skin test of iodine deficiency is completely unscientific. Iodine is converted to colorless iodide by reductants, including vitamin C, glutathione, and thiosulphate. “G. Abraham’s Iodine Test Kit contains iodine overdose pills. The test is completely irrational. It implies that the body should be saturated with iodine.” -Ray Peat

 

[Peater]

“PUFA can react with iodine to make antithyroid compounds, so iodine deficiency is less likely when the diet is low in those." -Ray Peat

That's what I found interesting as we all know about Vitamin E and PUFA, but also that selenium which all the pro-iodine docs say should be taken with iodine is an anti-oxidant too.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Iodine is not hard to get…


“Shrimp and other seafood are good sources of iodine because they absorb some of the iodine that is naturally present in seawater (12). Three ounces of shrimp contain about 35 mcg of iodine, or 23% of the daily recommended intake”

“Dairy products are major sources of iodine, especially in American diets (12).

The amount of iodine in milk and dairy differs greatly based on the iodine content in the cattle feed and the use of iodine-containing disinfectants during milking (13Trusted Source).

A comprehensive study measured the iodine content in 18 different brands of milk sold in the Boston area. It found that all 18 brands had at least 88 mcg in 1 cup (8 ounces) of milk. Some brands even contained up to 168 mcg in one cup (14Trusted Source).

Based on these results, 1 cup of milk can provide 59–112% of the recommended daily amount of iodine.

Yogurt is also a good dairy source of iodine. One cup of plain yogurt provides approximately half of the daily recommended amount (6Trusted Source).

The amount of iodine in cheese varies depending on the type.

Cottage cheese is one of the best sources of iodine. One cup of cottage cheese provides 65 mcg, while one ounce of cheddar cheese provides about 12 mcg (15)”

9 Healthy Foods That Are Rich in Iodine

One-third of people are at risk of iodine deficiency. These 9 iodine-rich foods can help keep you healthy.

www.healthline.com