Is It OK To Only Have Vitamin E Succinate

[Blossom]

I wonder if wheat germ oil is ok for people who identify themselves as gluten sensitive? I suppose that answer might be found on the celiac website. Although my views have changed somewhat on this topic I still avoid gluten like the plague.

 

[j.]

I haven't seen a wheat germ oil product with 400 IU or more of vitamin E per pill . They sometimes have like 15 IU of vitamin E, a lot less than typical supplements.

 

[Blossom]

Doesn't really seem worth the trouble, I was just curious anyway. When I first went gluten free my husband got rid of my unopened wheat germ oil and I always wondered about that.

 

[Mittir]

I asked Ray Peat about vitamin E succinate and i got this reply.
He did not answer the last part of the question.

Q:here are several studies showing anti-cancer benefit of vitamin E succinate.
Do you think absence of soybean oil in E succinate makes it better than
commercial d-alpha-tocopherol in soybean oil?
Is there any harm in using only d-alpha tocopherol (succinate ) instead of mixed tocopherols.

If the potency of a vitamin E product is around 1000 i.u. per milliliter, the amount of soy oil isn't a concern, but if it's only about 100 i.u./ml, then there's enough oil to matter.
The succinate is probably part of the anticancer effect.

 

[freal]

Blossom, did you have reaction to any other vitamin E. Like those that are the most commonly sold, which are mostly alpha formbut a little bit of those others. Like Solgar for example?

Do you also react to alpha-tocopherol (I mean just alpha tocopherol and not the acetate or succinate forms).

 

[freal]

Oh sorry, not Blossom. I was refering to Bluebell.

 

[Wilfrid]

I asked Ray Peat about vitamin E succinate and i got this reply.
He did not answer the last part of the question.

Q:here are several studies showing anti-cancer benefit of vitamin E succinate.
Do you think absence of soybean oil in E succinate makes it better than
commercial d-alpha-tocopherol in soybean oil?
Is there any harm in using only d-alpha tocopherol (succinate ) instead of mixed tocopherols.

If the potency of a vitamin E product is around 1000 i.u. per milliliter, the amount of soy oil isn't a concern, but if it's only about 100 i.u./ml, then there's enough oil to matter.
The succinate is probably part of the anticancer effect.

This is exactly where things are confusing.
Because even if Ray recommends mixed tocopherols, I always think that he's not really against the d-alpha tocopherol (esterified or not) because, but I may be wrong, the d-alpha toco-form only, and may be especially the (but not only) succinate form like Ray said, have probably better anti-oxydant and hepatic detoxifying properties than the mixed ones.
This is the main reason why, I think, nobody could have a straight answer from him regarding a specific brand of E neither a specific type and dosage of it (d-alpha only, mixed toco, esterified, not esterified ect....).Ray himself continues to use 100UI of vitamin E ( he told me that he put it on skin). Once again, context seems to be everything.
If one is following Ray's recommendation regarding food choices and avoidance of PUFA as much as possible, a single dose, weekly, of 400 UI d-alpha-tocopherol only would be probably safe without any big risk of depleting the other tocopherols too much ( especially the gamma ones).

Below is one of Maret G.Traber's view on the differences between alpha- and gamma- form of E:

"Identification of the various types of tocopherols and the availability of synthetic isomers were instrumental in defining particular effects, suggesting specific functions of the individual types and isomers. α-Tocopherol, the prominent component of the vitamin E complex, is unique in many respects. A sorting process exists only for the natural RRR-α-tocopherol; α-TTP-preferentially incorporates only the natural RRR-α-tocopherol into plasma. γ- and δ-tocopherols can practically substitute for α-tocopherol in in vitro antioxidant action and partially in the resorption-gestation assay, the differences being primarily due to the α-tocopherol-specific sorting system. An analogous in vivo lack of equivalence exists between RRR-α-tocopherol and all rac α-tocopherol. The sorting process is highly specific and does not tolerate the alteration in stereochemistry at C2. This preference prevents α-tocopherol from rapid ω-oxidation and thus keeps the excretion of the α-CEHC degradation product low. Only excess α-tocopherol seems to be converted to α-CEHC, whereas ingested γ- and δ-tocopherol may be almost quantitatively converted to their CEHCs and excreted in the urine. These findings suggest that there is a specific, molecular role for RRR-α-tocopherol.

α-Tocopherol also appears unique in regulating phosphorylation cascades. Such a role may be important in heart disease where cell adhesion, proliferation, and oxidant production may all be modified through vitamin E-sensitive pathways.
γ-Tocopherol is unique in being a potent nucleophile and generating a metabolite, γ-CEHC, with an intriguing pharmacological function, natriuresis. The former may contribute to the scavenging of electrophilic mutagens, the latter to the prevention of cardiovascular disease by lowering blood pressure."

 

[TeslaFan]

Are you just allergic to soy? Dry form of E (succinate) should not have it, so perhaps that's why you can stomach it? If soy it the issue, here's the E mixed complex I use, with almost all soy removed:

http://www.thorne.com/Products/Aging/An ... d~E143.jsp

It's a bit pricey, but you can use it to isolate the issue.

 

[j.]

^ I think she already mentioned Thorne didn't work for her.

 

[Bluebell]

Been sick with food poisoning, finally back again to give an update.

I tried Mercola sunflower-derived E with mixed toco's - had same effect of feeling headache/malaise/sick/toxic.

It's not a soy allery, as I've had tofu and soy lecithin in the past (before I saw the light) with no issues.

I have not tried a standard supplement of d-alpha only - so maybe it's the other tocopherols causing the problem.

According to hair tests I am very copper toxic. Perhaps some supplements I take interact with that copper, or even release some of it, & make me feel bad (high copper makes you feel bad especially when it's released in high quantities into blood). I don't have evidence for this interaction, it's just a thought. I also have problems with B-complex (though some individual B's are OK). I do wonder why I am having this problem with E and hardly anyone else does.

My main thoughts now are:
I'd like to ask Ray if taking 400IU d-alpha tocopherol acetate (or succinate) every day would be harmful in the long run (by depleting other tocopherols or other nutrients). I can't find his contact form on his site any more though.

I wonder if taking only d-alpha tocopherol acetate (or succinate) will only give anti oxidant effects & protection against PUFA, and I won't get other beneficial effects such as anti-clot, anti- estrogen, fertility. I would really like those benefits too.

However perhaps succinate is even better for liver detox (which I really need). So perhaps I will just take the succinate as it seems like the only one I can tolerate, and I'll be glad for the benefits I can get.

I'd love to try a good wheat germ derived E, I am tempted by the idea it could be more like the E from the old days.

Would also say I appreciate everyone's comments, I learn so much from this forum and am in great company here.

 

[Wagner83]

Vitamin E succinate inhibits the function of androgen receptor and the expression of prostate-specific antigen in prostate cancer cells

 

[Wagner83]

Vitamin E succinate inhibits the function of androgen receptor and the expression of prostate-specific antigen in prostate cancer cells

@haidut You may be interested in this given the effects on androgen receptors.

 

[haidut]

@haidut You may be interested in this given the effects on androgen receptors.

Thanks.

 

[Kray]

RP recommends mixed tocopherols. He thinks alpha tocopherol works only as an anti oxidant
and does not have the other protective properties of anti-clot, anti- estrogen etc.
I do not remember him saying anything about adverse effects of using d-alpha-tocopherol only.
RP himself stopped using vitamin E. Need for E depends on PUFA storage and intake.
He thinks quality of vitamin E has changed since soy oil industry got into making vitamin E.
I have used both d-alpha-tocopherol and mixed tocopherol ( GNC brand) and there is
better result from mixed tocopherols. In my experience, benefits from blocking the PUFA release
by Niacinamide is way higher than vitamin E of both kinds.
From google search it looks like there are tons of studies on anti-cancer property of
d-alpha tocopherol succinate. In theory alpha-tocopherol and succinate should have same benefits
but these papers seems to indicate succinate has something special in it.
My guess is that processing of E succinate from soy is better than regular d-alpha-tocopherol.
I think it would be a good idea to shoot an email to RP asking if
there is any harm in using only d-alpha tocopherol and what is his thoughts
on Anti-cancer research using Vitamin E succinate.

Anyone from this thread- Did someone ever email Peat about the tocopherol/succinate questions? This thread is quite old- if the follow-up is elsewhere on the forum, I would appreciate a link.

Thanks!

 

[Spondive]

Vitamin E Succinate lowered my elevated liver enzymes to normal in one month using 800iu a day of vitaminshoppe brand.. nothing else ever worked

 

[Kray]

Vitamin E Succinate lowered my elevated liver enzymes to normal in one month using 800iu a day of vitaminshoppe brand.. nothing else ever worked

Wow! Curious- what else had you tried? Any other benefits noted, and are you still using this form? How much per day? Thanks for feedback, and good for you!

 

[Spondive]

Wow! Curious- what else had you tried? Any other benefits noted, and are you still using this form? How much per day? Thanks for feedback, and good for you!

800 iu a day of vitamin E succinate.. I started a very low vitamin A diet to see if I have improvement in other health parameters and partly doing this as an experiment because E is supposed to be antagonistic to vitamin A so we will see

 

[Kray]

800 iu a day of vitamin E succinate.. I started a very low vitamin A diet to see if I have improvement in other health parameters and partly doing this as an experiment because E is supposed to be antagonistic to vitamin A so we will see

Are you still taking E succinate at 800iu?

 

[Spondive]

Are you still taking E succinate at 800iu?

Yes I wanted to add that my blood sugars with the elevated liver enzymes and my confirmed fatty liver by a ultrasound have normalized into normal range otherwise no other effects from supplement.. I’m impressed because I have tried many things for liver suggested on this forum with mild improvement but not effective like E succinate

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yes I wanted to add that my blood sugars with the elevated liver enzymes and my confirmed fatty liver by a ultrasound have normalized into normal range otherwise no other effects from supplement.. I’m impressed because I have tried many things for liver suggested on this forum with mild improvement but not effective like E succinate

You no longer have a fatty liver?