L-lysine - Serotonin Antagonist

[Parsifal]

Haidut,

I'm on board with what you are saying. Albeit some of it is new information to me.

Question...beta alanine also seems to dilute blood vessels..by a different pathway ?
It does this without increasing NO ?

BTW, i have tried citrulline and arginine and I found beta alanine gave me better results.

Blood vessels can dilate as needed unless they are calcified. If calcified, then even arginine, citrulline, ornithine, and others won't help. If keeping the blood vessels flexible is your main goal then magnesium and vitamin K2 would be much better. However, the overall goal should be to increase metabolism which will take care of things as needed.

Is it possible to remove calcifications from soft tissues once it is there? If yes how?

 

[haidut]

post 100193

Haidut,

I'm on board with what you are saying. Albeit some of it is new information to me.

Question...beta alanine also seems to dilute blood vessels..by a different pathway ?
It does this without increasing NO ?

BTW, i have tried citrulline and arginine and I found beta alanine gave me better results.

Blood vessels can dilate as needed unless they are calcified. If calcified, then even arginine, citrulline, ornithine, and others won't help. If keeping the blood vessels flexible is your main goal then magnesium and vitamin K2 would be much better. However, the overall goal should be to increase metabolism which will take care of things as needed.

Is it possible to remove calcifications from soft tissues once it is there? If yes how?

Yes, high doses vitamin K2 (15mg - 45mg daily), caffeine, magnesium, thyroid hormone all can get calcium out of soft tissues. Vitamin K2 and DHEA can get this calcium into the bones. There are well documented studies of K2 de-calcifying the pineal gland in the brain, which I think is pretty telling.

 

[Giraffe]

post 100195 Yes, high doses vitamin K2 (15mg - 45mg daily), caffeine, magnesium, thyroid hormone all can get calcium out of soft tissues. Vitamin K2 and DHEA can get this calcium into the bones. There are well documented studies of K2 de-calcifying the pineal gland in the brain, which I think is pretty telling.

Do vitamin E and aspirin also help?

 

[Parsifal]

Wow, this is very promising stuff, thanks Haidut!
Will have to work to have money and buy more supplements/stuff because I'm broke atm .

Do you know if the dose in Estroban which is already high in K2 would be enough?
What about vitamin D?

 

[haidut]

post 100203 Wow, this is very promising stuff, thanks Haidut!
Will have to work to have money and buy more supplements/stuff because I'm broke atm .

Do you know if the dose in Estroban which is already high in K2 would be enough?
What about vitamin D?

The studies on calcification showed that concentrations of 100nM - 1uM of K2 strongly inhibited calcification. Taking 5mg K2 gives you about 1uM, so taking a daily dose of EstroBan should have an effect. A human study in people with kidney disease found K2 reversed calcification but the study lasted for 6 months, so you may need to take it that long to see an effect.
I don't know about vitamin E, but vitamin D can cause calcification if not balanced by vitamin A and K. Peat says aspirin should protect from calcification.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/calcium.shtml
"...Aspirin inhibits the actions of PTH, helping to prevent the calcification of inflamed tissues, and it inhibits the loss of calcium from bones. Aspirin decreases the release of IL-6."

 

[Giraffe]

Thanks, Haidut.

 

[Parsifal]

post 100295 Thanks, Haidut.

:1

 

[Nicholas]

anybody else regularly use Lysine?

 

[narouz]

post 107414 anybody else regularly use Lysine?

me

 

[FredSonoma]

If I'm already taking Methylene Blue should I stop before trying L-lysine? Could L-lysine possibly be a substitute for cypro?

 

[narouz]

post 107421 If I'm already taking Methylene Blue should I stop before trying L-lysine? Could L-lysine possibly be a substitute for cypro?

Personally, I took them both together to good effect.
I should say "take."
Lysine at about 1000mg/day.
MB in microgram doses, sometimes up into single digit mg doses, several times per day.

 

[Nicholas]

the lysine could potentially help mitigate a serotonin response from the MB, too?

 

[narouz]

post 107433 the lysine could potentially help mitigate a serotonin response from the MB, too?

Yes, but I think in low, microgram level doses of MB,
that serotonin response probably wouldn't be a big worry.
I never noticed any serotonin sensations/effects at those dosage levels in my experience,
including when I was not taking lysine at the same time....

 

[Makrosky]

post 107414 anybody else regularly use Lysine?

In the days I can foresee a stressful day in the office, I take 3 grams before lunch and 3 grams 3 hours later and It works quite good. I think it keeps my gut serotonin down because it usually spikes brutally when under stress at the office.

Don't know if this is "regularly" but this can be 2-3 days a week.

 

[FredSonoma]

Has anyone ever tried taking this, or any other amino acid topically? I've had issues with BCAAs and glycine and I'm a little afraid to try Lysine orally.

Is there any reason free form L-lysine is better than L-lysine HCL? Does anyone use the PureBulk L-lysine HCL?

 

[BingDing]

I just finished a bottle of Pure Bulk L HCL capsules, they seemed to work fine. I got results similar to what others have said. But I bought Hard Rhino powder so I could mix whatever amount I wanted.

 

[Nicholas]

regarding Lysine overdosage:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15204731

"A Lys-related drop in serum concentration and an increase in urine excretion of chlorides was a compensatory reaction to the ingested hydrochloride. No functional, biochemical, or histological changes in renal function were found. The no-observed-adverse-effect level (NOAEL) for Lys was estimated at 5.0% for both genders (male, 3.36 +/- 0.12 g/kg/day; female, 3.99 +/- 0.28 g/kg/day)."

regarding the antagonistic relationship of arginine and lysine:

"Arginine is a conditionally essential amino acid, meaning that whether or not it is required to be healthy is conditional on the health status or life cycle of the individual." - wikipedia

regarding lysine suppressing growth hormone in chicks:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/104/9/1127.full.pdf

all of these points add up still to lysine being a low-risk supplement....especially in situations where arginine depletion is needed based on certain conditions somebody may be dealing with.

 

[Nicholas]

it seems the reasons to take Lysine would be: you have a diagnosed deficiency, you are using it as an antiviral, or you are using it to antagonize HGH in situations like cancer. Using it to combat serotonin seems a bit more vague i am feeling. Do people who use Lysine have diagnosed high serotonin? If not, is a benefit from taking Lysine the *suppression* of serotonin or could it also be relief from a virus or even lowering nitric oxide? And does antagonizing HGH (or NO) or a virus also play a part in the serotonin suppression. Suppressing serotonin seems kind of odd now that i think about it....suppressing the thing which is causing a diagnosed case of high serotonin makes more sense. Many people eat the carrot as an anti-serotonin therapy - this is actually less vague in that you're targeting endotoxin (and the negative hormones associated). I'm not saying taking Lysine for the express purpose of lowering serotonin is wrong if it makes you feel better....just questioning for myself a more refined approach to supplementation.

 

[kineticz]

Hi everyone, this was one of my better threads so wanted to ask how you are all doing? Any big movements in the Peat paradigm?

 

[Agent207]

post 111046 it seems the reasons to take Lysine would be: you have a diagnosed deficiency, you are using it as an antiviral, or you are using it to antagonize HGH in situations like cancer. Using it to combat serotonin seems a bit more vague i am feeling. Do people who use Lysine have diagnosed high serotonin? If not, is a benefit from taking Lysine the *suppression* of serotonin or could it also be relief from a virus or even lowering nitric oxide? And does antagonizing HGH (or NO) or a virus also play a part in the serotonin suppression. Suppressing serotonin seems kind of odd now that i think about it....suppressing the thing which is causing a diagnosed case of high serotonin makes more sense. Many people eat the carrot as an anti-serotonin therapy - this is actually less vague in that you're targeting endotoxin (and the negative hormones associated). I'm not saying taking Lysine for the express purpose of lowering serotonin is wrong if it makes you feel better....just questioning for myself a more refined approach to supplementation.

Couldn't agree more. I suspect this serotonin depletion is one of the most misunderstood peat concepts. Peat advices about serious adverse effect of high serotonin levels (opposed to the mainstream beliefs). And then you see people here calling for lowering serotonin AT WILL FOR EVERYONE no matter what, not even considering their levels. Calling for depletion, the more the better!! Seriously, you think the brain chemistry is that simple? you read an article of Peat/whoever and think you can understand all?

And don't be wrong.. this is not a Peats issue, not at all.