Some people questioned where I got some of my info from about this subject, so I decided to make a thread about it. Sometimes there's physiological imbalances instead of generalized poor health that result physical and mental disorders. Various mental disorders that can be caused by such imbalances are schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, autism, anxiety, depression, aggressive behavior, and even psychopathy.
There is a very significant physiological balance between histamine and methylation. Methyl groups bind to and excrete with histamine, so if there's too much of one, the other gets depleted. Both are healthy to minimize, and RP has stated this. However, for some people restoring balance is more of a priority. Most schizophrenics, for example, have either high histamine, high methylation, or pyroluria (low zinc and vitamin B6), and treating those abnormalities leads to improvements in their symptoms. CO2 and gelatin reduce histamine, serotonin, and methylation, but they don't shift balances. Correcting an imbalance is probably a faster, more effective way to treat diseases associated with the imbalance, and I don't think serious cases can be fully treated with general health habits, at least not with the amount of technology available today.
By the way, I have had no problem with this balance, and my histamine and basophils came out normal on a routine blood test. A letdown considering I would know how to improve my symptoms that way.
I chose to use the terms histadelic instead of under-methylator (used for high histamine people) and overmethylator instead of histapenic (used for low histamine people), because I think low histamine and methylation in themselves are positive, while high histamine and methylation are negative.
Histadelics have a high rate of metabolism and heat production, but also glycolysis (inefficient use of glucose). Thyroid treatment can reduce glycolysis greatly while increasing efficient use of energy. RP said he once ate a lot of calories, but a large portion went toward glycolysis. Then this pattern corrected itself when he started supplementing thyroid. Overmethylators have low glycolysis, but a low rate of healthy metabolism.
Histadelics have lower bodyfat than average, overmethylators have higher bodyfat than average.
For whatever reason, overmethylators are known to be intolerant to estrogen therapy and have severe PMS. My explanation is that estrogen makes their DNA methylation even worse, or their high serotonin makes them intolerant of estrogen. From Alternative Mental Health: "High histamine persons may do quite well on SSRI's, but low-histamine persons usually reactly very badly to SSRI's and are better candidates for benzodiazapines."
Histamine agonists that activate histamine in the CNS without causing drowsiness like monafinil, increase wakefulness, and histamine is the signal for a person to wake up in the morning. Histadelics sleep less than normal and overmethylators sleep more than normal. Stereotypical hypothyroidism is a person sleeping a lot.
Histadelics have a high sex drive and overmethylators have a low sex drive. Stereotypical hypothyroidism is hypogonadism and low libido.
Due to these several traits I named, histadelics are more likely to be seen as "stereotypically" hyperthyroid and overmethylators as "stereotypically" hypothyroid, but neither appear to be related to the amount of 'healthy' metabolism.
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ ... /walsh.htm
I realized a long time ago that a lot of the physical symptoms that overmethylators get are very similar to the effects of anticholinergic drugs or chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system. They have too many methyl groups, which metabolize a lot of histamine, but deactivate genes, and produce an excessive amount of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and adrenalin which lead to their symptoms.
On the other hand, histadelics get symptoms similar to parasympathetic nervous system activation. They have problems with aches, pains, frequent sickness, allergies, and high histaminergic and cholinergic arousal (which produces wakefulness, insomnia, and neuronal excitation and often leads to excitotoxicity and accelerated brain degeneration).
I used a list of possible side effects of anticholinergics to show how much these drugs have in common with these two conditions. My comments are in bold.
There are some other differences. Schizophrenic overmethylators are the ones that get hallucinations, not histadelics. Anticholinergics are known to cause hallucinations, but not negative symptoms. In fact, they sometimes produce euphoria, because acetylcholine's inhibition over dopamine is lifted. Histadelics are more likely to get "negative" symptoms of schizophrenia like mental blankness, related to low dopamine, which they have.
People that are pathological liars without a conscience or remorse, mean and nasty everyday, and had often tortured animals or set fires as children (basically psychopaths), were found to match a certain biochemical profile that includes high histamine and low copper. On the other hand, people who had good behavior normally, but did episodic violence with genuine remorse afterward were found to have a profile including low histamine, high copper. Charles Manson's copper level was among the 3 lowest tested of 150,000 people.
http://www.encognitive.com/node/6310
So obviously the histamine/methylation balance is important, and has not been read about by many people despite very promising research.
Sometimes methyl donors like methionine are supplemented to histadelics to treat their symptoms, just as L-histidine is sometimes supplemented to overmethylators, but there are better ways to treat these physiological abnormalities and improve overall health in the process. Here are a bunch of treatments that are used for these imbalances. Feel free to comment on these treatments or add new ones.
Methyl donors (avoid)-
Methyl-folate
Methyl-b12
Methionine
Selanomethionine (selenium and methionine)
SAMe
Trimethylglycine (TMG)
Dimethylglycine (DMG)
Inositol isn't a methyl donor, but it's used for histadelics because it apparently enhances serotonin function.
Possibly methylxanthines like caffeine or theobromine (in chocolate). But they also reduce histamine.
Histamine antagonists-
Anti-histamine drugs (like cyproheptadine, or benadryl if serotonin is safely low because benadryl is an SSRI)
Anti-cholinergic drugs (like atrophine or scopolamine found in belladonnas (deadly nightshades) and datura (thorn apple)
Histidine restriction (gelatin)
Allergic reaction avoidance
Copper (destroys histamine)
Vitamin C (detoxifies histamine)
Vitamin B5
RP said that the cholinergic drugs will be slowly phased out of existence because anti-cholinergic drugs are being recognized as potential treatments for Alzheimer's disease, and excessive acetylcholine is associated with excitotoxicity. People who still think acetylcholinerase inhibitors are good for the brain should check out the effects of organophosphate pesticides on brain development.
People with excessive acetylcholine can take a normal dose of an anti-cholinergic with little effect, but people with low acetylcholine can take a tiny dose and have a very unpleasant experience. Start with the lowest dose possible, and be careful about increasing the dosage. The best time to take them is when you can afford to give your brain a break and you're not doing anything that requires memorizing or concentration.
Most anti-histamines are anti-cholinergic as well when you increase the dosage.
Histamine agonists (avoid)-
Organophosphorus (used in chemical warfare and as pesticides, actually acetylcholinerase inhibitor)
Choline, DMAE, etc
Monafinil
Histidine
Excessive heat
Allergies
Stuff that makes your skin itchy
Possibly stimulating the vagus nerve, which some people say is relaxing
Methyl traps-
Cyano-b12 (contains cyanide, so don't know)
Hydroxy-b12 (expensive form of b12, but can scavenge nitric oxide and cyanide)
adensyl-b12
Folate (RP said it often contains impurities, though reliably strong)
Cysteine (anti-thyroid)
Methionine restriction (gelatin)
Glutathione
If you suspect you have excessive histamine, give antagonists a try. Cypro is one you can get by prescription in the US if you experience allergies. Or if you suspect you have excessive serotonin and methylation, give methyl traps a try. Choosing Peaty ways of doing this can improve your overall health in the process of correcting balance. The amount of benefits any "healthy" substance brings depends on the person's physiology.
There is a very significant physiological balance between histamine and methylation. Methyl groups bind to and excrete with histamine, so if there's too much of one, the other gets depleted. Both are healthy to minimize, and RP has stated this. However, for some people restoring balance is more of a priority. Most schizophrenics, for example, have either high histamine, high methylation, or pyroluria (low zinc and vitamin B6), and treating those abnormalities leads to improvements in their symptoms. CO2 and gelatin reduce histamine, serotonin, and methylation, but they don't shift balances. Correcting an imbalance is probably a faster, more effective way to treat diseases associated with the imbalance, and I don't think serious cases can be fully treated with general health habits, at least not with the amount of technology available today.
By the way, I have had no problem with this balance, and my histamine and basophils came out normal on a routine blood test. A letdown considering I would know how to improve my symptoms that way.
I chose to use the terms histadelic instead of under-methylator (used for high histamine people) and overmethylator instead of histapenic (used for low histamine people), because I think low histamine and methylation in themselves are positive, while high histamine and methylation are negative.
Histadelics have a high rate of metabolism and heat production, but also glycolysis (inefficient use of glucose). Thyroid treatment can reduce glycolysis greatly while increasing efficient use of energy. RP said he once ate a lot of calories, but a large portion went toward glycolysis. Then this pattern corrected itself when he started supplementing thyroid. Overmethylators have low glycolysis, but a low rate of healthy metabolism.
Histadelics have lower bodyfat than average, overmethylators have higher bodyfat than average.
For whatever reason, overmethylators are known to be intolerant to estrogen therapy and have severe PMS. My explanation is that estrogen makes their DNA methylation even worse, or their high serotonin makes them intolerant of estrogen. From Alternative Mental Health: "High histamine persons may do quite well on SSRI's, but low-histamine persons usually reactly very badly to SSRI's and are better candidates for benzodiazapines."
Histamine agonists that activate histamine in the CNS without causing drowsiness like monafinil, increase wakefulness, and histamine is the signal for a person to wake up in the morning. Histadelics sleep less than normal and overmethylators sleep more than normal. Stereotypical hypothyroidism is a person sleeping a lot.
Histadelics have a high sex drive and overmethylators have a low sex drive. Stereotypical hypothyroidism is hypogonadism and low libido.
Due to these several traits I named, histadelics are more likely to be seen as "stereotypically" hyperthyroid and overmethylators as "stereotypically" hypothyroid, but neither appear to be related to the amount of 'healthy' metabolism.
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ ... /walsh.htm
I realized a long time ago that a lot of the physical symptoms that overmethylators get are very similar to the effects of anticholinergic drugs or chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system. They have too many methyl groups, which metabolize a lot of histamine, but deactivate genes, and produce an excessive amount of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and adrenalin which lead to their symptoms.
On the other hand, histadelics get symptoms similar to parasympathetic nervous system activation. They have problems with aches, pains, frequent sickness, allergies, and high histaminergic and cholinergic arousal (which produces wakefulness, insomnia, and neuronal excitation and often leads to excitotoxicity and accelerated brain degeneration).
I used a list of possible side effects of anticholinergics to show how much these drugs have in common with these two conditions. My comments are in bold.
Symptoms of sexual arousal (like erections and body relaxation) are DEactivated by the sympathetic nervous system. Histadelics normally have a high libido, while overmethylators normally have a low libido. Anticholinergics and antihistamines often cause erectile dysfunction, but the anticholinergics don't always inhibit the sex drive because they increase dopamine's functioning without increasing serotonin, antagonizing prolactin (a hormone that drops libido after orgasm)Possible effects of anticholinergics include:
Ataxia; loss of coordination
Decreased mucus production in the nose and throat; consequent dry, sore throat (histadelics have much mucous and tear production, parasympathetic activation causes it, while overmethylators are likely to get dry eyes)
Xerostomia or dry-mouth with possible acceleration of dental caries (histadelics have much saliva production, low incidence of cavities, while overmethylators have dry mouths with high incidence of cavities)
Cessation of perspiration; consequent decreased epidermal thermal dissipation leading to warm, blotchy, or red skin (see below)
Increased body temperature (histadelics sweat a lot, allows for removal of heat from the body, while histapenics sweat little)
Pupil dilation (mydriasis); consequent sensitivity to bright light (photophobia) (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and adrenalin dilate the pupils, while parasympathetic activators like acetylcholine and histamine constrict them.)
Loss of accommodation (loss of focusing ability, blurred vision – cycloplegia) (histadelics are organized overacheievers, overmethylators are disorganized underachievers and sometimes have a history of hyperactivity and learning disabilites.)
Double-vision (diplopia)
Increased heart rate (tachycardia)(the parasympathetic nervous system slows the HR)
Tendency to be easily startled (histadelics are outwardly calm with internal worry, while overmethylators are visibly anxious)
Urinary retention (why one needs to relax in order to pee)
Diminished bowel movement, sometimes ileus (decreases motility via the vagus nerve)(Parasympathetic nervous system speeds bowel movement. Also, histadelics have high incidence of stomach aches due to high stomach acid, caused by parasympathetic nervous system activation, while overmethylators have a lower-than-normal incidence)
Increased intraocular pressure; dangerous for people with narrow-angle glaucoma (increased blood flow to the brain and vital organs from sympathetic nervous system, less goes to the limbs, same thing happens with cold temperature. On the other hand, parasympathetic nervous system activation causes blood flow to limbs and stomach (for digestion) to increase. Those with blood pooling in their veins may benefit from an anticholinergic in this way. Taking enough caffeine for hypoglycemia or making yourself cold works too, but those are stressful. If I can obtain anything, I'll see if it will make my pooling blood and orthostatic hypotension go away and post back)
Shaking (Overmethylators have so-called "nervous legs" and probably shake as well since their anxiety is easily visible)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic
There are some other differences. Schizophrenic overmethylators are the ones that get hallucinations, not histadelics. Anticholinergics are known to cause hallucinations, but not negative symptoms. In fact, they sometimes produce euphoria, because acetylcholine's inhibition over dopamine is lifted. Histadelics are more likely to get "negative" symptoms of schizophrenia like mental blankness, related to low dopamine, which they have.
People that are pathological liars without a conscience or remorse, mean and nasty everyday, and had often tortured animals or set fires as children (basically psychopaths), were found to match a certain biochemical profile that includes high histamine and low copper. On the other hand, people who had good behavior normally, but did episodic violence with genuine remorse afterward were found to have a profile including low histamine, high copper. Charles Manson's copper level was among the 3 lowest tested of 150,000 people.
http://www.encognitive.com/node/6310
So obviously the histamine/methylation balance is important, and has not been read about by many people despite very promising research.
Sometimes methyl donors like methionine are supplemented to histadelics to treat their symptoms, just as L-histidine is sometimes supplemented to overmethylators, but there are better ways to treat these physiological abnormalities and improve overall health in the process. Here are a bunch of treatments that are used for these imbalances. Feel free to comment on these treatments or add new ones.
Methyl donors (avoid)-
Methyl-folate
Methyl-b12
Methionine
Selanomethionine (selenium and methionine)
SAMe
Trimethylglycine (TMG)
Dimethylglycine (DMG)
Inositol isn't a methyl donor, but it's used for histadelics because it apparently enhances serotonin function.
Possibly methylxanthines like caffeine or theobromine (in chocolate). But they also reduce histamine.
Histamine antagonists-
Anti-histamine drugs (like cyproheptadine, or benadryl if serotonin is safely low because benadryl is an SSRI)
Anti-cholinergic drugs (like atrophine or scopolamine found in belladonnas (deadly nightshades) and datura (thorn apple)
Histidine restriction (gelatin)
Allergic reaction avoidance
Copper (destroys histamine)
Vitamin C (detoxifies histamine)
Vitamin B5
RP said that the cholinergic drugs will be slowly phased out of existence because anti-cholinergic drugs are being recognized as potential treatments for Alzheimer's disease, and excessive acetylcholine is associated with excitotoxicity. People who still think acetylcholinerase inhibitors are good for the brain should check out the effects of organophosphate pesticides on brain development.
People with excessive acetylcholine can take a normal dose of an anti-cholinergic with little effect, but people with low acetylcholine can take a tiny dose and have a very unpleasant experience. Start with the lowest dose possible, and be careful about increasing the dosage. The best time to take them is when you can afford to give your brain a break and you're not doing anything that requires memorizing or concentration.
Most anti-histamines are anti-cholinergic as well when you increase the dosage.
Histamine agonists (avoid)-
Organophosphorus (used in chemical warfare and as pesticides, actually acetylcholinerase inhibitor)
Choline, DMAE, etc
Monafinil
Histidine
Excessive heat
Allergies
Stuff that makes your skin itchy
Possibly stimulating the vagus nerve, which some people say is relaxing
Methyl traps-
Cyano-b12 (contains cyanide, so don't know)
Hydroxy-b12 (expensive form of b12, but can scavenge nitric oxide and cyanide)
adensyl-b12
Folate (RP said it often contains impurities, though reliably strong)
Cysteine (anti-thyroid)
Methionine restriction (gelatin)
Glutathione
If you suspect you have excessive histamine, give antagonists a try. Cypro is one you can get by prescription in the US if you experience allergies. Or if you suspect you have excessive serotonin and methylation, give methyl traps a try. Choosing Peaty ways of doing this can improve your overall health in the process of correcting balance. The amount of benefits any "healthy" substance brings depends on the person's physiology.