MTHFR AND METHYLFOLATE SUPPLEMENTATION (POLL)

[Logan-]

What do you take, and how much?

 

[Logan-]

I have c677t heterozygous mutation, low serum b9, high homocysteine, high b12. Low b9 is mainly due to very low dietary intake though. I will try to increase my intake by eating organ meats, as I can’t tolerate diary, eggs, or green vegetables.

I may try methylfolate to see its effects.

 

[youngsinatra]

Remember the 2„L“s for folate:

Legumes or leafy greens. Liver is not good, because to get the RDA through liver (150g/day) you end up very toxic in vitamin A and copper.

 

[youngsinatra]

Liquid methylfolate or folinic acid are good choices in my opinion. Riboflavin (FAD) is very important to restore the MTHFR enzyme itself. Folate sufficiency is important nonetheless.

 

[Logan-]

Peat talking about methylation refers to methylation of DNA, which shuts down genes.

Methylation in reference to folate refers to the methylation (adding of one carbon) to tons of different biomolecules, like amino acids, neurotransmitters, the creation of choline.

Folate is super important, especially during pregnancy. And all of it's importance is due to the methyl group.

5-methyl folate is the active form. Every other form of folate would be useless if they couldn't be converted into 5-methyl folate by the body.

Your body can do this naturally, which is why folic acid works, but it takes up methyl groups from other molecules. So there'll be more homocysteine vs methionine, less neurotransmitters.

5-methylfolate is super important. You should take it. It's a vitamin after all.

As well, follinic acid (which is different than folic acid) lacks the 5-methyl group, so it needs to be converted (and methylated) to 5-methyl-folate first. However, it appears follinic acid can help support the creation of 10-formyl-folate, a big donator of formyl groups in the body, through methylene-folate. Plus, after donating it can then be converted to 5-methyl-folate relatively easily as it's already a step away. It still requires a methyl group but it's a hell of a lot closer than folic acid.

Methyl groups are especially important during development of the fetus during pregnancy, so you should take some L-methyl-Folate. Most pregnant woman are already given large doses of folic acid so taking this instead would be a lot better.

So, to summarize: Especially because you're pregnant, you should take 75% of your daily dose in L-methyl-Folate, and 25% of your daily dose as Follinic acid. Honestly this would probably be the optimal folate intake for most people.

Again, Follinic acid is different than Folic acid. Folic acid is the kind found in fortified flour and most prenatal vitamins. Follinic acid is a rarer form given in supplements.

You'd probably be fine taking 1 capsule of L-methyl-TetrahydroFolate and 1 capsule of Follinic acid a day. Maybe a 1mg l-methyl-tetrahydrofolate capsule from Swanson and a .4mg Follinic acid capsule from where ever.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a multivitamin that I thought was optimal. Nearly every multivitamin on the shelves is garbage, with inferior or synthetic forms of vitamins/minerals, and bad purity.

These are some alright ones, better than Centrum but not perfect:

Children's Chewable - Black Cherry

Swanson Premium Multi and Mineral - Daily 100 Caps - Swanson Health Products

Labels like "children's" or "womens" or "mens" don't tend to mean much.

Swanson Premium Multi without Minerals - Daily Formula 30 Veg Caps - Swanson Health Products

This is a multivitamin with no minerals. It's mostly good on the vitamins, though underdosed, which could be remedied by taking two capsules a dya instead of one. If you get the multivitamin though, you should also get some copper (2mg), zinc (10mg), magnesium (400mg), calcium, manganese (1mg-5mg), etc etc.

Overall it's best to buy each vitamin and mineral separately, even if it is annoying and a hassle, OR to get most of the nutrients from the diet. B complexes are available so all those can be group together.

If you can, I'd buy it all separately, and make your girlfriend a shake every morning in a blender. That way she can get extra calories + you can add vitamin/minerals as capsules or in liquid form.

For example, on HealthNatura, you can get a decent B complex, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin K (healthnatura is the best source for vitamin K btw), and vitamin E. You'd make a shake, and use the dropper bottle to dose out a daily dose of each into the shake. Then you could add a capsule/teaspoon scoop of ascorbic acid/vitamin C, a 2mg-4mg capsule of copper, a 10mg-15mg capsule of zinc, a 400mg capsule of magnesium, a 500mg capsule of calcium, a 1gram scoop of iodized salt, a 1mg capsule manganese, 1mg boron, .5mg molybdenum, .2mg chromium. And finally, a source of choline would be especially helpful during pregnancy, lecithin/choline/alpha-gpc are good sources.

Add all of those to a blender filled with 4 cups of milk, 2 cups of dry rolled oats, sugar (idk probably 1/4 of a cup?), and cocoa powder. Soak the 1-2 cups of dry oats the night before with twice that amount of water, and then microwave them for 2.5-3 minutes to cook them. Add them to the milk, as well as the sugar, and then add the vitamins/minerals. Blend until it starts getting smooth, and then add the cocoa powder. Blend again until it's all incorporated. That's an easy way to get calories and nearly all of the daily vitamins/minerals. Add melted coconut oil, melted tallow, or melted butter to the shake to increase creaminess and calories.

It may seem like a lot of vitamins/minerals, but it's not really, and I could send you all the links to good sources of them + directions if you're interested.

As well, eating certain foods means you don't need supplements. Eating an oz of beef liver a day means she doesn't need to supplement any copper or Vitamin A. Eating 2 or more egg yolks a day means there's no need for choline supplementation. Drinking a lot of milk stops any need for calcium.

Is she interested in diet or no? If you changed what you bought for groceries would she start eating what you bought?

Thoughts On Folic Acid During Pregnancy? Methylfolate Or Folinic Acid Better?

i searched the forum but couldn't find anything written on this topic. My girlfriend is in very early stages of pregnancy and I've read that because folic acid is synthetic it can actually cause a functional deficiency, often not convert to active folate and actually cause toxicity. here's the...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Logan-]

Yet another common, mysterious, and "incurable" conditions may turn out to be surprisingly simple in reality. The study below found that the majority of people with this condition have low levels of the active (methylated) folate and elevated levels of unmetabolized folate. As such, a clinical trial is underway to quickly test if supplementing with methylated folate will alleviate/cure the condition.

Redirecting
Could a vitamin deficiency cause 'double-jointedness' and hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome?

"...You may know someone with overly flexible joints, a friend or family member who can easily slide into a split or bend limbs to impossible angles. But hypermobility is a more serious condition than being "double-jointed." For those with hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS), the same conditions that create fragile connective tissue can cause a range of symptoms that, on the surface, can seem unrelated: physical conditions such as joint pain, chronic fatigue, thin tooth enamel, dizziness, digestive trouble and migraines; and psychiatric disorders, such as anxiety and depression. Women with hypermobile EDS may also be at increased risk for endometriosis or uterine fibroids. Researchers have long struggled to find the cause of hypermobility and hypermobile EDS. Of the 13 subtypes of EDS, hypermobile EDS comprises more than 90% of the cases. But until this study, hypermobile EDS was the only subtype without a known genetic correlate. As a result, symptoms have often been treated individually rather than as the result of a single cause. Researchers at Tulane University School of Medicine have linked hypermobility to a deficiency of folate -- the natural form of vitamin B9 -- caused by a variation of the MTHFR gene. "You've got millions of people that likely have this, and until now, there's been no known cause we've known to treat," said Dr. Gregory Bix, director of the Tulane University Clinical Neuroscience Research Center. "It's a big deal.""

"...Doctors discovered the connection between folate deficiency and the MTHFR gene by working with patients at Tulane's Hypermobility and Ehlers-Danlos Clinic, the only such clinic in the U.S. that focuses on fascia disorders. Blood tests of hypermobile patients who showed signs of associated medical conditions revealed elevated levels of unmetabolized folate. Subsequent tests showed that most of those with elevated folate serum levels had the genetic polymorphism. The good news is a treatment already exists. Methylated folate -- folate that is already processed -- is FDA-approved and widely available. "It's an innocuous treatment," Bix said. "It's not dangerous, and it's a vitamin that can improve people's lives. That's the biggest thing: We know what's going on here, and we can treat it.""

Have you ever tried high dose B2? I only ask (Not recommend) as I remember seeing this, and there is a link between MTHFR and folate too I think.

Deficiency of activated folate may be the cause of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

Yet another common, mysterious, and "incurable" conditions may turn out to be surprisingly simple in reality. The study below found that the majority of people with this condition have low levels of the active (methylated) folate and elevated levels of unmetabolized folate. As such, a clinical...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Logan-]

The majority of people have some degree of MTHFR polymorphisms.

Chris Masterjohn has a lot of content on MTHFR. He thinks it’s simply a riboflavin deficiency.

Your “MTHFR” Is Just a Riboflavin Deficiency

Or one of hundreds of other genetic impairments in energy metabolism.

chrismasterjohnphd.com

Start Here for MTHFR and Methylation

If you are looking for information on methylation and the MTHFR gene, this is where to start.

chrismasterjohnphd.com

I supplement according to blood levels. I test for the following at least 1x a year:

Hemogram
B12
Folate
Homocysteine
Zinc
Copper
Selenium
Ferritin
Etc.

Masterjohn argues that supplementing folate because you have an MTHFR variant is not logical because people with normal MTHFR activity endogenously recycle about 4.5 grams of folate everyday. Typical amounts of methyl folate supplements are 400 micrograms per day, so not a significant contribution to methyl donors. It wouldn’t be safe to supplement grams of folate each day.

I'm compound heterozygous for C677T and A1298C.

I've had very good results with methylfolate for major depressive disorder. I used to take very large doses, 15mg a day. I was getting a prescription and then just started using cheaper over the counter supplements.

Now, I just take an active B complex a couple times a day. In 2 capsules it has 50mg thiamin, 50mg riboflavin-5-phosphate, 100mg niacin, 50mg P5P, 800mcg methylfolate, 300mcg biotin, 100mg pantothenic acid, 250mg choline, and 250mg inositol.

Works for me. In general I feel a lot better taking an active B-complex on a regular basis. The lower dose methylfolate still seems to have a significant impact on my depression. Though the super high doses have worked exceptionally well. I'm skeptical of taking such large amounts but for me personally, 10 to 15mg of methylfolate has made a very tremendous difference in the past for my major depression. But I can't really trust taking such an insanely high amount long-term. Who knows what the effects could be.

MTHFR: Do I need to supplement B12and Folate?

Hello! New here, and so grateful for all the information I've been able to glean from you all. I've been struggling with depression, insomnia, high estrogen symptoms for years, and (have now realized in the past year) many hypothyroid symptoms. I've been a supplement junky for the past 5 years...

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[Logan-]

I'm taking methyl folate every other day.
I've had the irritation and insomnia with it but I'm hoping that will go away. Methyl folate gives me histamine problems too. Itchy skin and prickly-feeling sinus headaches.

I've read that one should have good b12 status in place before taking extra methylfolate or stuff like anxiety and insomnia can occur.

Just to add a positive experience, I actually had profound anti-depressant effects from l-methylfolate.

It’s amazing how many negative reviews you get here with something that isn’t ‘Peat rubber stamped’, yet, if you look at the review sections on iherb for the compound, it is littered with sparkling anecdotes.

L-methylfolate Experience

I decided to try some methylfolate just to see what would happen. Used the LifeExtension brand. I took one pill (1 mg). The effects consisted of a straining sensation in my eye muscles, a feeling of effortless hyperfocus, automatic effortless multitasking, and very bad ability to stay on track.

raypeatforum.com

 

[Logan-]

I wasn't sure if I was going to post this. If I remember correctly there's a second edition of this book and it no longer has the chapter on zinc and folate interaction. Maybe they found it to be irrelevant enough that they decided to exclude it, don't know. I'm sharing only the introduction and conclusion just so you can grasp if it's something you find worth investigating further:

Folate in health and disease (classic)
ESPN: 0-8247-9280-7

View attachment 6523
View attachment 6524

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...festations-of-dysfunctional-folate-status.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279402461_Folate_and_Choline_Interrelationships

"It is likely that the dietary requirement for choline is affected by folate and possibly the intake of other methyl donors. The interrelationship between choline and folate arises from the participation of these nutrients in one-carbon metabolism (Figure 18.2). In liver and kidney tissue, either folate or betaine may serve as methyl donors for the conversion of Hcy [non-burtlancysteine] to methionine. Thus, deficiency of one nutrient may increase the demand for the other. Further, hepatic biosynthesis of phosphatidylcholine through the PEMT pathway is a major consumer of one-carbon units [18,56]. Thus, 5-methyl-THF, as a primary source of methyl groups for PEMT, is integral to de novo biosynthesis of choline. Finally, the catabolism of choline provides one-carbon units that ultimately feed into folate-mediated one-carbon metabolism as formate [57,58]. However, the quantitative signifi cance of the choline oxidation pathway to one-carbon metabolism is uncertain."​

​

"The choline-sparing effect and the lipotropic properties of folate depend on its possession of biologically labile methyl groups that may be used for the biosynthesis of choline (i.e., phosphatidylcholine) through the PEMT pathway. Evidence of interplay between folate and choline was demonstrated by showing perturbed choline metabolism, as assessed by abnormalities in hepatic betaine concentrations, in rats following the administration of the folate antagonist methotrexate [59]. Subsequent work showed that rats made severely folate deficient had 65% to 80% lower hepatic choline and phosphocholine concentrations than did folate-adequate controls; moderately folate-deficient rats had a 36% (P < .09) reduction in hepatic choline [60]. Investigations with healthy male [61] and female [62–64] study participants have also demonstrated an effect of folate intake on biomarkers of choline status. In premenopausal Mexican American (MA) women consuming a constant intake of choline (i.e., 349 mg/day), plasma phosphatidylcholine decreased in response to folate restriction (i.e., 135 μg of dietary folate equivalents [DFE]/day) and increased in response to folate treatment with 800 μg of DFE/day [62] (Figure 18.3). These findings are consistent with the important role of folate in providing labile methyl groups required for de novo biosynthesis of phosphatidylcholine through the PEMT pathway."​

​

"The interplay between folate and choline was recognized more than 50 years ago when the choline-sparing effect of folate was noted in animal models of fatty liver."​

I think I remember reading that folate was the one responsible for turning serotonin into melatonin, which is more-or-less just methylated and acetylated serotonin.

L-Methylfolate, Methylfolate, 5-MTHF, L-5-MTHF. Why many variations?

"Metafolin® (L-methylfolate calcium) is a substantially diastereoisomerically pure source of L-methylfolate containing not more than 1% D-methylfolate which results in not more than 0.03 milligrams of D-methylfolate in Metanx®"

"Quatrefolic: What is this?
This is a new form of methylfolate that uses glucosamine instead of calcium to bind the L-methylfolate."

@Travis

Folate And Other B's

I am checking up on cronometer daily to make sure I'm getting all my nutrients, since I'm breastfeeding and I want to improve health overall. I notice with Peat, I've back very lacking in iron and folate EVERY DAY. I'm missing something in this diet, or I'm not eating specific foods that you...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Jkbp]

What is the best way to test for MTHFR sensitivity?

 

[Logan-]

What is the best way to test for MTHFR sensitivity?

MTHFR mutation test is a blood test (PCR).

 

[geusterman]

Thoughts On Folic Acid During Pregnancy? Methylfolate Or Folinic Acid Better?

i searched the forum but couldn't find anything written on this topic. My girlfriend is in very early stages of pregnancy and I've read that because folic acid is synthetic it can actually cause a functional deficiency, often not convert to active folate and actually cause toxicity. here's the...

raypeatforum.com

This multi is quite good…perfection always elusive as we all differ but quite good. We’ve seen some wonderful results in our family.
Also, working w Dr Jeffry Dach, who discovered in my almost perfect blood report that I had high homocystine. He prescribed the Pure product and it brought the homocystine levels right down to normal.

 

[Logan-]

I am going to buy a methylfolate supplement. I couldn’t find it on purebulk so I will choose between these two:

https://www.vitacost.com/now-methyl-folate

Now’s product is good because I can take it weekly or even every ten days.

And there’s this one, from Dr’s Best:

https://www.vitacost.com/doctors-best-fully-active-folate-800-with-quatrefolic

Which one would you choose? Money is not an issue, but I don’t like to place orders very often. To me quality and the excipient profile is important. I think, since now’s capsules have 5 grams of folate, they might have used less fillers/excipients than the other.

 

[youngsinatra]

I am going to buy a methylfolate supplement. I couldn’t find it on purebulk so I will choose between these two:

https://www.vitacost.com/now-methyl-folate

Now’s product is good because I can take it weekly or even every ten days.

And there’s this one, from Dr’s Best:

https://www.vitacost.com/doctors-best-fully-active-folate-800-with-quatrefolic

Which one would you choose? Money is not an issue, but I don’t like to place orders very often. To me quality and the excipient profile is important. I think, since now’s capsules have 5 grams of folate, they might have used less fillers/excipients than the other.

Definitely the second one.

5mg of methylfolate is a very high dose and likely causes side effects. I prefer liquid methylfolate (100mcg per drop) as you can change your daily dose easily, and liquid versions typically don’t have irritating fillers, cellulose etc.

 

[Logan-]

Definitely the second one.

5mg of methylfolate is a very high dose and likely causes side effects. I prefer liquid methylfolate (100mcg per drop) as you can change your daily dose easily, and liquid versions typically don’t have irritating fillers, cellulose etc.

5 mg/weekly is a medically established dose actually. All the internal medicine doctors prescribe this dose to deficient people; as unused folate, unlike other b-vitamins, is stored in liver as opposed to being excreted through kidneys.

The thing is, I can’t place orders to my country (due to customs department confiscating them and asking for a doctor’s prescription to hand them out to me), so I use a friend’s house, which is in another country. So, buying vitamins is a hassle for me, hence I try to buy bulk doses so that I won’t need to place an order again soon.