Nightly panic attacks for 5 months

[Bounce]

Hey friends,

I'm a bit helpless again and am turning to you.

For 5 months I have been waking up at night with anxiety and shortness of breath. It has finally been clarified that it is NOT sleep apnea. I am very glad that a very good sleep doctor checked me out and even advised me against SSRIs.

He said something interesting that I can confirm. He said "if the nervous system is in sympathetic mode anyway, then it will do nothing but rebel if you try to force it to come down".

Good - now I know it's my psyche. As I thought for a while that I was taking too much B1 and that my night-time panic attacks were caused by it, I stopped taking it. I'm starting to take it again in small doses because it helps me to have more energy during the day. However, this makes the night-time anxiety attacks at night worse. Probably because it activates the parasympathetic nervous system and a part of it then fights even harder to keep me awake.

I had quite a stressful relationship with a woman and recently broke up. There is also a lot of conflict in the family. I am undergoing trauma therapy and feel comfortable there, but the most important thing now is to be able to sleep again.

As I don't tolerate any form of magnesium well, I'm now trying magnesium malate and very little B1 (about 100mg HCL).

I would be very grateful for any further tips.

 

[charlie]

Sounds a lot like copper toxicity.

 

[animalcule]

Do you not tolerate topical magnesium or only oral? Maybe a magnesium oil or epsom salt bath before bed?

Melatonin? I don’t really care for melatonin bc I wake up feeling a bit drugged, but I’m just very sensitive, and in your case you just need to go to sleep and stay asleep. Your poor sleep is probably causing a snowball effect with your stress responses — stress/trauma leading to panic attacks, leading to poor sleep, making you far less tolerant of stressors…. I hope you can find something (hopefully natural) to knock yourself out and get a good nights rest.

 

[xeliex]

Hey there, hang in there.

This could be an elevated serotonin issue. I would experiment with cyproheptadine or benadryl. I also would avoid gut irritating food, especially in the afternoon and before sleep. I'd also want to eat an hour or half hour before bed, something that is easily digestible, like some fruit and greek yogurt and revaluate.

 

[wzuo]

Had similar problem, cypro helps with that 1mg before sleep. You'll sleep like dead. Wonderful feeling.

 

[Bounce]

Sounds a lot like copper toxicity.

Hey Charlie, i made blood work. Cooper was in a normal range.

Do you not tolerate topical magnesium or only oral? Maybe a magnesium oil or epsom salt bath before bed?

Melatonin? I don’t really care for melatonin bc I wake up feeling a bit drugged, but I’m just very sensitive, and in your case you just need to go to sleep and stay asleep. Your poor sleep is probably causing a snowball effect with your stress responses — stress/trauma leading to panic attacks, leading to poor sleep, making you far less tolerant of stressors…. I hope you can find something (hopefully natural) to knock yourself out and get a good nights rest.

Im also very sensitive, but you are right. I should try it! I forgot the argument but Huberman really not recommend taking it.
Btw: Magnesium malate seems fine. My head just feels a bit strange. But this can come because of sleep deprevation. Everything you wrote about the cycle, i agree 100%.

Had similar problem, cypro helps with that 1mg before sleep. You'll sleep like dead. Wonderful feeling.

Any other (mild) way to lower Serotonin? Also i dont know where i get it in Berlin.

 

[wzuo]

Hey Charlie, i made blood work. Cooper was in a normal range.

Im also very sensitive, but you are right. I should try it! I forgot the argument but Huberman really not recommend taking it.
Btw: Magnesium malate seems fine. My head just feels a bit strange. But this can come because of sleep deprevation. Everything you wrote about the cycle, i agree 100%.


Any other (mild) way to lower Serotonin? Also i dont know where i get it in Berlin.

Periactine 4mg comprimé - boîte de 30 comprimés

Le médicament Periactine est indiqué dans le traitement symptomatique des manifestations allergiques telles que: rhinite, conjonctivite, urticaire.

www.pharmashopi.com

they deliver across all EU
I haven't found other way to lower serotonin, for me cypro was a game changer as it removed most of weird symptoms.

 

[Bounce]

Periactine 4mg comprimé - boîte de 30 comprimés

Le médicament Periactine est indiqué dans le traitement symptomatique des manifestations allergiques telles que: rhinite, conjonctivite, urticaire.

www.pharmashopi.com

they deliver across all EU
I haven't found other way to lower serotonin, for me cypro was a game changer as it removed most of weird symptoms.

Are there any Risks in taking it? I feel a bit uncomfortbale by imagining taking a pill from an online shop.

 

[wzuo]

Are there any Risks in taking it? I feel a bit uncomfortbale by imagining taking a pill from an online shop.

it is normally registered pharmacy, just selling also online. I bought from them twice, and quality is good

 

[Peatress]

Were you on high dose thiamine for a long time? It can increase your need for potassium and magnesium

Electrolytes and your mood: A surprising link

When people think about mental health, they probably don’t think of electrolytes first. But electrolytes are an essential cog in your mood-balancing apparatus.

science.drinklmnt.com

 

[wzuo]

100mg daily few years ago, before discovering Peat but I haven't noticed any effects. Now I take also 100mg but every few days when I feel I need it. I found too much B1 without proper nutrition gives me low blood sugar symptoms so I'm trying not to overdose it.

 

[mostlylurking]

Hey friends,

I'm a bit helpless again and am turning to you.

For 5 months I have been waking up at night with anxiety and shortness of breath. It has finally been clarified that it is NOT sleep apnea. I am very glad that a very good sleep doctor checked me out and even advised me against SSRIs.

He said something interesting that I can confirm. He said "if the nervous system is in sympathetic mode anyway, then it will do nothing but rebel if you try to force it to come down".

Good - now I know it's my psyche. As I thought for a while that I was taking too much B1 and that my night-time panic attacks were caused by it, I stopped taking it. I'm starting to take it again in small doses because it helps me to have more energy during the day. However, this makes the night-time anxiety attacks at night worse. Probably because it activates the parasympathetic nervous system and a part of it then fights even harder to keep me awake.

I had quite a stressful relationship with a woman and recently broke up. There is also a lot of conflict in the family. I am undergoing trauma therapy and feel comfortable there, but the most important thing now is to be able to sleep again.

As I don't tolerate any form of magnesium well, I'm now trying magnesium malate and very little B1 (about 100mg HCL).

I would be very grateful for any further tips.

Waking up at night in a panic is tied to increased adrenaline. Adrenaline rises at night when your blood sugar gets too low. Taking thiamine after 3:00pm can interfere with sleep because it will facilitate your body's ability to burn sugar which will lower your blood sugar in the middle of the night and cause adrenaline to rise. Try taking all of your thiamine before 3:00pm.

Also, consider your liver's health. A healthy liver stores more sugar for reserves that are released as needed when your blood sugar dips low which triggers a little adrenaline release which tells the liver to release more stored sugar. If your liver isn't working well it won't be able to store enough sugar in reserve so it can't respond to the adrenaline so then you wake up in a panic from the adrenaline. Your liver needs thiamine to function (among other things). Your liver can get overburdened if you drink alcohol or if your estrogen is elevated or if you are exposed to other toxins.

 

[mostlylurking]

As I don't tolerate any form of magnesium well, I'm now trying magnesium malate and very little B1 (about 100mg HCL).

thiamine hcl does not pass through the intestinal wall very well so 100mg of thiamine hcl is not really going to help you much. A much higher dose of the hcl type is needed to equal a dose of TTFD thiamine or sublingual thiamine.

Go here: bioenergetic search, search for Malic, listen closely. I think Peat is saying that Malic acid will chelate metals (assuming it is one of the acids with double bonds) so he wasn't a fan. I've had good results relying on magnesium glycinate that I buy here. Peat has good things to say about glycine and gelatin.

If you are very sensitive to magnesium, you could try soaking in a warm bath with a cup of epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) added to the water. I've found that to be very helpful and relaxing to do before bed. Thiamine supplementation will improve tolerance for magnesium.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBxWivhBdpA

 

[mostlylurking]

Any other (mild) way to lower Serotonin?

Thiamine is needed to lower brain serotonin.

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[charlie]

Hey Charlie, i made blood work. Cooper was in a normal range.

Copper test is not the way. If you look through my posts you will see the way.

 

[Korven]

@Bounce

Just eating 1 gut irritating food can cause some serious anxiety and this reaction is sometimes delayed by 12-24 hours. I.e. the foods you ate for breakfast may be causing your nightly panic attacks 16 hours later. Do you have any signs and symptoms of gut irritation, diarrhea, bloating, pain, etc?