Silent Reflux (LPR)

[GAF]

Thanks for reporting your results @GAF .
I plan to give it a try as well, though I am also leery of the negatives of melatonin. Though what little I've read, the real dangers are in long term use, not short term. Thanks for mentioning Ray's article, I'll look that up.

Were you using the 10mg dosage these past two nights? I was maybe going to try about 5-6mg based off the articles I read.

I was taking 5mgx2 about 9.45 pm. It would seem in theory that we should all try to find the minimum effective dose. We should also try to figure out how often one must do this to truly strengthen the sphincter. It would seem that once the sphincter has tightened, zero or infrequent usage would be sensible. If ongoing supplementation is needed, then we should probably try to figure out what is causing this lack of melatonin in the first place.

Anybody, know where melatonin in the GI tract comes from? I haven't had the time to delve into the melatonin mystery due to tax deadlines...

 

[rei]

melatonin is antioxidant so maybe it is consumed in fighting gut inflammation and there is not enough left for proper functioning?

 

[Tarmander]

I have had this cough phlegm thing a long time. Was convinced it was from endotoxin. Theanine really exasperated it without my knowledge and I had a radical lessening of symptoms when I went off theanine.

 

[Mad]

I wanted to post my results.

I took 10 mg of melatonin on Friday and Saturday nights, then 5 mg Sunday night.

Pros:
I did notice a reduction in mucus, probably at least 75% as @GAF reported.
I also noticed the deep breathing during the day which was really nice. One of my issues has been not being able to get a deep breath some days, which spills into the night and makes sleeping that much harder.
Also it knocked me out and I fell asleep easily.

Cons:
Have had stomach and back cramping since Saturday. It cycles on and off; I've noticed it's worse when I'm more active. At first I thought it was very bad PMS cramps which I have had in my back a time or two before, but it is not that time of my cycle and PMS cramps have never lasted this long for me. I just looked up side effects of melatonin and stomach cramping is listed on a few sites.

Also I am just leery in general of supplementing melatonin due to articles I've read.

I will discontinue the melatonin for now and see how my silent reflux reacts.

 

[GAF]

I am still experimenting. Mucus and breathing and LPR definitely better but not gone. Sleeping deeper it seems but doesn't knock me out and still get up to pee.

I tried a daytime 5mg and then a bedtime 5mg. No real difference. I think I may try that some more.

I think it definitely seems to have sphincter tightening effects and that is good.

Gonna play around with higher and lower doses and timings to see if I can stop the mucus.

No cramps or anything like that so far and I am prone to them.

Melatonin is a mystery that is going to require lots more research. Most of what little i have found in the short amount of time i have had is just repetitious blah blah blah.

 

[Dawna Graziani]

Hello, I am very glad to have found this forum. I have been in the hospital and Drs now for all lpr symptoms beginning two weeks ago (that I noticed-have had sinusitus and migraines for some years now). Trouble swallowing and scary upper middle chest pressure were noticed right away. It was treated as a heart attack and heart problems. Didn't really listen to me at the hospital that I was feeling problems swallowing (unbelievably scary to have this and be ignored), problems creating saliva, and loss of appetite. I was 300 lbs 2 weeks ago. At dr-weighed in at 287 and this week hit a very bad week losing another 11 lbs as of today. However, I can handle loss of appetite as I'm learning to eat as much as I can in the morning hours. I can handle more now and happy about it.

This forum first hit me with the person stating they went through problems with a ppi inhibitor. I searched around and found this possibility as well. I came home from the Dr last Tues and started Koufman diet and two omeprazole as prescribed. She had never heard of LPR. Was pretty blase about it. I was doing fine eating some brown rice, chicken and a few small items on Koufman until around 3 pm Thurs when I got really sick. The next days I continued the ppis and maybe forced down 400 cals. Was constantly nauseous and just couldnt hit calories. Started panicking thinking it was some severe case of Gastroparesis until I landed on another person with problems similar in Omeprazole. I cut it out yesterday and have been able to eat the diet up until around 5 pm when I couldn't really get more then 100 cals down. I can't eat things like bread and it takes forever to eat the chicken breast but I can mix it with broth or a bit of the rice and it's easier. I still feel full and have to push down some so I am bringing that up with doc tomorrow as it' still a possibility of some mild form of gastoparesis as well but not nearly like it was on the PPI. Hoping with the weight loss that she may send me to a specialist now. Throat is hurting in the back and some hoarseness. Coughing a bit but not overly so. Tons of phlegm but have been using mucinex nasal spray for about a year and it does help if I let it drip (otherwise, I can get severe migraines). I also started drinking high alkaline water in between meals in sips with the rest down in the evening and overnight when it can be very uncomfortable for the dry mouth feeling and lack of saliva; swallowing difficulties. It does help. I take black licorice before main meals and also probiotics. These also seem to help. Believe it or not, I had read about the melatonin elsewhere and it stuck to me while getting my other supplements. While I have not tried it yet, I have bought some and had planned on it. I was a third shift worker for decades up until last year and now an insomniac with anxiety issues having started this year at night when symptoms (migraines and now this) seemed to be at worse so my sleep doesn't reach 5 hours each night. Will talk to Dr tomorrow and ask about melatonin but honestly, she doesn't seem to be impressing neither myself nor my husband. Hoping we can at least get to testing for this and just a basic barium swallow test to rule everything out that could be worse would be nice. Thank you for this forum and your input to this as well. It's so helpful.

 

[Mad]

Hello, I am very glad to have found this forum. I have been in the hospital and Drs now for all lpr symptoms beginning two weeks ago (that I noticed-have had sinusitus and migraines for some years now). Trouble swallowing and scary upper middle chest pressure were noticed right away. It was treated as a heart attack and heart problems. Didn't really listen to me at the hospital that I was feeling problems swallowing (unbelievably scary to have this and be ignored), problems creating saliva, and loss of appetite. I was 300 lbs 2 weeks ago. At dr-weighed in at 287 and this week hit a very bad week losing another 11 lbs as of today. However, I can handle loss of appetite as I'm learning to eat as much as I can in the morning hours. I can handle more now and happy about it.

This forum first hit me with the person stating they went through problems with a ppi inhibitor. I searched around and found this possibility as well. I came home from the Dr last Tues and started Koufman diet and two omeprazole as prescribed. She had never heard of LPR. Was pretty blase about it. I was doing fine eating some brown rice, chicken and a few small items on Koufman until around 3 pm Thurs when I got really sick. The next days I continued the ppis and maybe forced down 400 cals. Was constantly nauseous and just couldnt hit calories. Started panicking thinking it was some severe case of Gastroparesis until I landed on another person with problems similar in Omeprazole. I cut it out yesterday and have been able to eat the diet up until around 5 pm when I couldn't really get more then 100 cals down. I can't eat things like bread and it takes forever to eat the chicken breast but I can mix it with broth or a bit of the rice and it's easier. I still feel full and have to push down some so I am bringing that up with doc tomorrow as it' still a possibility of some mild form of gastoparesis as well but not nearly like it was on the PPI. Hoping with the weight loss that she may send me to a specialist now. Throat is hurting in the back and some hoarseness. Coughing a bit but not overly so. Tons of phlegm but have been using mucinex nasal spray for about a year and it does help if I let it drip (otherwise, I can get severe migraines). I also started drinking high alkaline water in between meals in sips with the rest down in the evening and overnight when it can be very uncomfortable for the dry mouth feeling and lack of saliva; swallowing difficulties. It does help. I take black licorice before main meals and also probiotics. These also seem to help. Believe it or not, I had read about the melatonin elsewhere and it stuck to me while getting my other supplements. While I have not tried it yet, I have bought some and had planned on it. I was a third shift worker for decades up until last year and now an insomniac with anxiety issues having started this year at night when symptoms (migraines and now this) seemed to be at worse so my sleep doesn't reach 5 hours each night. Will talk to Dr tomorrow and ask about melatonin but honestly, she doesn't seem to be impressing neither myself nor my husband. Hoping we can at least get to testing for this and just a basic barium swallow test to rule everything out that could be worse would be nice. Thank you for this forum and your input to this as well. It's so helpful.

I hadn't heard of the Koufman diet so I looked it up and one of the first websites was a book review by refluxgate.com.

Just in case anyone is new in their LPR journey, refluxgate was the first place I dove into when I realized I had LPR and I found it very helpful. Had to pay like a hundred bucks for his course but I was desperate and it was worth it.

Anyway a lot of what I learned sounds similar to the Koufman diet. At the time I developed LPR, I was doing the beginner's peat diet which consisted of: TONS of OJ, TONS of coffee, too much dairy fat, lots of dark chocolate, etc. All of these things are what you want to limit with LPR.

I believe my main trigger now is coffee so I try to limit to one cup per day. I also have an afternoon hot herbal tea (ginger or chamomile) which I enjoy and find helpful.

Other helpful things: not lying down too soon after eating, not getting too full, not wearing too tight of clothes or putting pressure on your stomach (losing weight will also help with this), going for light walks to aid digestion.

 

[Tarmander]

I tried a large amount of melatonin for a couple nights. I did 8mgs two nights in a row and then 4 mgs the last night. I can see how it would lower LPR in that the cough I had lowered. However I think taking large amounts of potassium chloride can affect the same change.

I also noticed I was a total ragemonger the next couple days after taking Melatonin at night. The first night I slept well, the second I slept less, and the last night I slept two hours basically. Not my favorite supplement.

 

[revenant]

Koufman and Aviv have written books about LPR, which will make you think you will die any day now from throat or esophageal cancer, the incidence of which has skyrocketed in the last 30 years or so. Aviv and Koufman say it is not stomach acid that is causing the problem, but pepsin hitting the esophagus and throat, resulting in chronic edema and inflammation. There is a fair amount of research backing this up. Koufman thinks pepsin and other stomach contents are actually flowing up from the stomach and hitting the throat and even reaching as far as the sinuses. Katz and Aviv are not convinced stomach contents are actually moving up that far and that it has something to do with poor vagal nerve functioning that results in messed up esophageal motility and in gastroparesis and aerosolized pepsin hitting the throat as a result. In other words, they don’t know what the underlying etiology is.

Interesting post. I tend to agree with the pepsin theory based on my own experiences. My problems began earlier this year after recovering from a flu and having a pretty bad cough, which I think damaged something and causes pepsin to rise all the way up to my throat, sinuses and mouth. The result was a sore throat, lots of mucus, a persistent cough, sometimes pain the ears, and generally a very "acidic" feeling in the mouth.

The challenge with pepsin is that it can stay "hidden" inside the membranes unless it's neutralized completely with something alkaline enough. So even if you avoid acidic foods and eat only neutral foods, it will not destroy the pepsin, which is just lying dormant waiting to be activated again.

GERD cures like PPI inhibitors did not help in my case and caused all kinds of uncomfortable side effects, which also makes me think LPR is not caused by too much stomach acid. I also fail to see how too little stomach acid would cause all these issues.

I think the underlying issue is often poor vagal nerve functioning. Koufman said I had a “post-viral vagal neuropathy” based on the tests she did.

That's interesting, but what is the cure?

Basically, here is what sort of works in terms of lifestyle changes in order of difficulty and importance in minimizing symptoms: (1) don’t lie down or go to sleep within 3-4 hours of eating, (2) avoid “trigger” foods like chocolate, coffee, and mint, (3) don’t eat anything late at night (Koufman says don’t eat after 6PM, Aviv says don’t eat after 7:30PM, so good luck if you are a night owl with a normal appetite) (3) avoid a lot of starches and sugars (4) avoid acidic foods like vinegar and citrus (good luck with that if you want to follow a Peat diet) (5) eat small meals, not big ones (6) elevate the head of your bed with risers or even cinder blocks.

I have tried all of these and found that (1) is not necessary and that (2) probably depends on the individual. For me chocolate and coffee are not problematic, but orange juice and citrus in general seems to be. I used to enjoy very sour alcoholic drinks but they definitely cause problems. Starches and sugars... I'm not sure yet. Elevating your head with several pillows seems to help, as does sleeping on the left side.

I've also found Gaviscon and drinking/gargling tap water with baking soda helpful. Fasting, on the other hand, seems to give me that acidic mouth feel. I'm still experimenting with melatonin but it's possibly helpful.

In any case, the terrible throat pain, constant coughing, post-nasal drip and pain under the lower ribs after eating are gone after making these changes. Still looking for things to make my saliva more alkaline, as the acidic feeling seems to be very bad for the teeth and gums.

 

[Motif]

I am still experimenting. Mucus and breathing and LPR definitely better but not gone. Sleeping deeper it seems but doesn't knock me out and still get up to pee.

I tried a daytime 5mg and then a bedtime 5mg. No real difference. I think I may try that some more.

I think it definitely seems to have sphincter tightening effects and that is good.

Gonna play around with higher and lower doses and timings to see if I can stop the mucus.

No cramps or anything like that so far and I am prone to them.

Melatonin is a mystery that is going to require lots more research. Most of what little i have found in the short amount of time i have had is just repetitious blah blah blah.

Hi! Could you give an update ?
did your reflux improve ?

 

[GAF]

Melatonin made me a nonfunctioning zombie so I blew that off. I am much much better due to this product.

Biotics Research Amino Acid Quick-Sorb

Find it on Amazon. $18 FOR 375 SERVINGS.

I am amazingly better in every way and the mucus is down to a mild expulsion of small amounts. Not a big deal anymore. Stumbled on this in late December. I bought 10 extra bottles so i wouldn't run out for 3 years in case the power goes out and milllions die from being shot by medical personnel.

 

[revenant]

Checking back on this thread; in my case the LPR symptoms eventually disappeared (whether it was the baking soda or just the body adapting), but the lowered stomach acid lead to what I think was/is SIBO. No more burning throat but gut dysbiosis, which lead to brain fog, lethargy and weight gain. So, watch out for lowered stomach acid when trying to fix LPR, it won't lead to anything good.