Still Have Hot Flashes With Progest-E, Why?

[Xisca]

No matter how much I take, I still have hot flashes. They come and go with no relation to the amount of progesteron I take.
What causes hot flashes? Why they do not go away by taking progesteron?
Should I take some salvia sclarea essential oil? Phyto-progesterone is suppose to counter attack our excessive natural ones....
I have taken this before I knew about progest-E, and may be by chance, my hot flashes had indeed disappeared... They were gone. It lasted 2 years, and then it started, but I knew about Peat, and did not take the salvia again.

 

[Lianda]

It never went away for me either with Protest-E.

 

[InChristAlone]

When I asked Peat about hot flashes he told me this: "Sugar, progesterone, and thyroid are important for temperature regulation. Both sugar and salt lower adrenaline. Adrenaline maintains the core temperature, by restricting circulation to the skin and extremities, when you aren't making heat fast enough, and if you lower the adrenaline suddenly there will be vasodilation, with a sense of heat as your temperature falls. When you don't eat carbohydrate, the body produces surges of cortisol to convert protein to sugar, causing periodic hot flashes."

Sounds like high stress hormones, so when you do eat then there's a drop in body temp and you will get a hot flash.

 

[tara]

Are you eating reasonable amounts of carbohydrates? Eg 300-400g/d?

 

[lollipop]

Are you eating reasonable amounts of carbohydrates? Eg 300-400g/d?

Tara is this more of a therapeutic dose?

 

[Lin]

Tara, that is 1200-1600 calories from carbs alone! Does Peat advocate that? I saw in the short clips on YouTube, where he said that hypothyroid women can gain weight on 1500 calories/day.

 

[tara]

Tara is this more of a therapeutic dose?

I was figuring on ~1/2 - 2/3 carbs/1200 - 1600 calories of carbs out of 2500ish calories as rough approximation of a sustainable level to run a reasonably healthy metabolism. But it's just a rough approximation - some may do better with a bit different mix and a bit different total. But it would be one factor to maybe consider/experiment with for hot flashes or night sweats?

 

[tara]

Tara, that is 1200-1600 calories from carbs alone! Does Peat advocate that? I saw in the short clips on YouTube, where he said that hypothyroid women can gain weight on 1500 calories/day.

That is what I meant, but I'm not sure whether it's what Peat would recommend. He doesn't advocate staying hypothyroid and maintaining on 1500 as far as I can tell. Maintaining weight on 1500 cals is an indication that it might be good to up metabolism. Undereating is one (of many) ways to keep the metabolism slow. May take other factors to bring it up too. But you can't run a sustainable healthy metabolism on a low calorie diet, [eta:] even supplementing lots of progesterone. Hot flashes can happen when sugar (carb) supply drops enough to set off the stress hormones - so if they are happening, the metabolism may be running low on fuel.

ETA: I don't know whether it is likely to work better to increase carbs slowly or quickly - there are different opinions around.

 

[lollipop]

I was figuring on ~1/2 - 2/3 carbs/1200 - 1600 calories of carbs out of 2500ish calories as rough approximation of a sustainable level to run a reasonably healthy metabolism. But it's just a rough approximation - some may do better with a bit different mix and a bit different total. But it would be one factor to maybe consider/experiment with for hot flashes or night sweats?

Makes sense. I have noticed that in distress situations an immediate quantity or "dose" of sucrose/fructose has shifted my system out of distress. Was not measuring macros then.

 

[Lin]

That is what I meant, but I'm not sure whether it's what Peat would recommend. He doesn't advocate staying hypothyroid and maintaining on 1500 as far as I can tell. Maintaining weight on 1500 cals is an indication that it might be good to up metabolism. Undereating is one (of many) ways to keep the metabolism slow. May take other factors to bring it up too. But you can't run a sustainable healthy metabolism on a low calorie diet, [eta:] even supplementing lots of progesterone. Hot flashes can happen when sugar (carb) supply drops enough to set off the stress hormones - so if they are happening, the metabolism may be running low on fuel.

ETA: I don't know whether it is likely to work better to increase carbs slowly or quickly - there are different opinions around.

Hummm... interesting. I usually eat about 1500 cal/day. More than that and I feel bloated, and start gaining weight. Just figured I didn't need as much food as most people, cause I'm short, female, old, inactive, whatever. I tend to get hot flashes at night when I take progesterone or pregnolone. Also acne.
Like narouz, I was never able to take enough thyroid supplement to get my temperature up, because it would increase my heart rate. But eating excessive calories just led to bloating, weight gain, less energy.
So, Peat diet had helped enormously with brain fog, general health, etc., but I'm still cold.
What I think you're saying, is that we need to eat more, but we can't do it if we are hypothyroid. So that means fixing the hypothyroid.... Eating more calories does not fix it, believe me, been there!!!
I recently tried haidut research chemicals, and think there may be hope... Tyromix and Tyrone new both warm me up. No increase in heart rate from Tyromix. I haven't tested Tyrone new much. It seems to have a short duration. But, I'll keep testing, and report back.

 

[Rafe]

@Janelle525
Thanks for that quote. I don't know why I've never thought of hot flashes being the effect of bringing down adrenaline quickly or immediately.

Different kinds of hot flashes, I wonder how different they feel.

 

[whodathunkit]

IME progesterone doesn't really work until the liver is cleaned out a bit. The liver being able to metabolize excess estrogen properly is the real key to getting rid of PMS and menopausal symptoms. Since progesterone helps flush stored estrogen from cells, if your liver isn't working right you won't get all the benefits from it. Progesterone used to make me miserable until I got my liver cleared: bloated, crampy, temperature dysregulation, etc. Liver's not completely clear yet but it works a lot better than it used to, as evidenced by my reaction to almost everything, including progesterone, dietary fat, chemical smells, cyclical hormonal changes, etc.

IMO/IME both PMS and menopausal symptoms like hot flashes are indicative of some degree of liver dysfunction. Note I didn't say "disease" like in diagnosable NAFLD or cirrhosis, etc. What I mean is the liver is compromised to some degree by fat or toxins (or both). Conventional medical tests may or may not be able to detect this dysfunction, depending upon the degree to which it exists.

 

[tara]

Hummm... interesting. I usually eat about 1500 cal/day. More than that and I feel bloated, and start gaining weight. Just figured I didn't need as much food as most people, cause I'm short, female, old, inactive, whatever.

Some of my ideas on calorie needs come from Gwyneth Olwyn at youreatopia, more discussion here: Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia
If you are old and exceptionally short, you may not need as much as 2500 cals, but I would still expect your real needs to be more than 2000.
I'm informed on this by youreatopia.com (I Need How Many Calories?!!)

What I think you're saying, is that we need to eat more, but we can't do it if we are hypothyroid.

Not quite what I'm saying - though it does seem people's digestive systems can become unaccustomed ('un-adapted'?) to handle decent amounts of food, amongst the other challenges that seem common with both reduced metabolism and chronic fuel deficit. I suspect that what is going to be most helpful to come up out of that situation depends on the state of the individual and maybe on what the causes of low metabolism were in the first place - how they got there. If undereating is a significant contributor to low metabolism (which I think it sometimes is), then I can't imagine how one could recover without eating more, even if that also results in some growth in adipose along with other tissues, and even if the digestive system struggles for a while (Tummy Troubles), and even if one feels tired for a while during recovery. Quite possibly there are other factors too - liver health, other limiting needs and stresses to be addressed, maybe also supplementary thyroid if addressing the basics is not enough. I think supplementing thyroid to force metabolism up while in energy deficit could potentially cause more stress and trouble, so personally I'd be cautious about that. Whatever the solution, in general I doubt one can run all systems sustainably at their best on an energy deficit.

 

[Saracatt]

IME progesterone doesn't really work until the liver is cleaned out a bit. The liver being able to metabolize excess estrogen properly is the real key to getting rid of PMS and menopausal symptoms. Since progesterone helps flush stored estrogen from cells, if your liver isn't working right you won't get all the benefits from it. Progesterone used to make me miserable until I got my liver cleared: bloated, crampy, temperature dysregulation, etc. Liver's not completely clear yet but it works a lot better than it used to, as evidenced by my reaction to almost everything, including progesterone, dietary fat, chemical smells, cyclical hormonal changes, etc.

IMO/IME both PMS and menopausal symptoms like hot flashes are indicative of some degree of liver dysfunction. Note I didn't say "disease" like in diagnosable NAFLD or cirrhosis, etc. What I mean is the liver is compromised to some degree by fat or toxins (or both). Conventional medical tests may or may not be able to detect this dysfunction, depending upon the degree to which it exists.

What worked for you to clear out your liver?

 

[lollipop]

Some of my ideas on calorie needs come from Gwyneth Olwyn at youreatopia, more discussion here: Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia
If you are old and exceptionally short, you may not need as much as 2500 cals, but I would still expect your real needs to be more than 2000.
I'm informed on this by youreatopia.com (I Need How Many Calories?!!)


Not quite what I'm saying - though it does seem people's digestive systems can become unaccustomed ('un-adapted'?) to handle decent amounts of food, amongst the other challenges that seem common with both reduced metabolism and chronic fuel deficit. I suspect that what is going to be most helpful to come up out of that situation depends on the state of the individual and maybe on what the causes of low metabolism were in the first place - how they got there. If undereating is a significant contributor to low metabolism (which I think it sometimes is), then I can't imagine how one could recover without eating more, even if that also results in some growth in adipose along with other tissues, and even if the digestive system struggles for a while (Tummy Troubles), and even if one feels tired for a while during recovery. Quite possibly there are other factors too - liver health, other limiting needs and stresses to be addressed, maybe also supplementary thyroid if addressing the basics is not enough. I think supplementing thyroid to force metabolism up while in energy deficit could potentially cause more stress and trouble, so personally I'd be cautious about that. Whatever the solution, in general I doubt one can run all systems sustainably at their best on an energy deficit.

Good Post Tara.

 

[whodathunkit]

What worked for you to clear out your liver?

So far...very low fat (VLF) diet + PUFA elimination, coffee enemas, and herbs like milk thistle.

IME VLF (like, only 10% fat or so) is THE BEST liver detox strategy going. However, it doesn't seem to be sustainable over the long term for most of us...if carried on too long it seems to beget mood deterioration and other changes like crepey skin. Pulsing VLF with a normal (i.e., not high fat) healthy no-PUFA eating is a good strategy. Like, a week VLF, and a week moderate fat Peaty style. Not indefinitely, just until we see our liver function improve to the degree we want it to. Or until we can't stand eating VLF anymore. :p It's ruff sometimes. It's usually not too hard to tell if our livers are working better if we pay attention to how we react to things.

Coffee enemas are also an unparalleled liver and lymph detox strategy, but for most of us enemas as part of a healthy lifestyle are something we have to work ourselves up to...if we get there at all. In my case it took me 30 years. I'm now kicking myself for time wasted, as I've been knowing about coffee enemas and hearing about the benefits for that long, but c'est la vie. But if the idea appeals to you, or if you think you could stand it even if unappealing (I still fall into this category, even with the enormous benefits I've experienced from doing them), then definitely give them a try. They work, and combined with a healthy low fat diet, they often produce very positive changes in a lot of areas (hormones, mood, overall physical well-being) in a fairly short time.

 

[Saracatt]

That makes sense. I actually have tried coffee enemas in the past.

I was already thinking along these lines because I think I tend to eat too much fat. I got used to it when I was paleo.

 

[whodathunkit]

I got used to it when I was paleo.

I'm there. Totally. Or I was, until very recently. Doing the coffee enemas has really changed my appetite, too. Lots of things I've done over the last few years have diminished my cravings, and each time I think my appetite can't change anymore because it is so radically unlike what it used to be, something like CE's come along and things get even better. I was a craving-driven, compulsive overeater, and now food is just...food. I still enjoy it, but I just don't "use" it like I used to. I don't feel the need to use. It doesn't fill a void for love or alleviate loneliness. It doesn't entertain me and is no longer a panacea for boredom. I don't want fat or sweets like I used to. Portions are WAY down. I don't even crave chocolate any more. Etc. I've been moving towards that for a while but CE's seem to have finally gotten me there.