T3,T4 question

[SQu]

I'm not getting anywhere right now with thyroid. It is winter, true, but sunny, and not too cold. I'm also very busy and stressed. But depressed, emotional, overwhelmed out of proportion. Fat gain. Poor sleep.
From tiny beginnings 3.5 months ago my dose rose steadily (raised according to pulse and symptoms) and is now 30mcg t3 in 6 doses, and 12 mcgT4 @ night. I take Tertroxin and diotroxin.
I associate high pulse and anxiety with excess T3; and descent into more hypo symptoms with excess T4 or insufficient T3. I also read that hair loss is a common symptom of too little T4 to T3 so I watch for that: nothing.
My question: are there other signs that might tell me if I'm taking too much/little of T4 or T3? My symptoms seem all hypo yet T3 at relatively high levels isn't helping. Once or twice I took even more than 30mcg. Up to 45mcg. Nothing. Before, I'd have felt it immediately.
Should I take more T3? I'm wary of T4 as my body doesn't handle it well.
Umm - that's two questions! :?
Thanks for reading.

 

[aguilaroja]

[quote="sueq"I associate high pulse and anxiety with excess T3; and descent into more hypo symptoms with excess T4 or insufficient T3....
My question: are there other signs that might tell me if I'm taking too much/little of T4 or T3?...[/quote]

It's a bit off topic, so I ask forbearance. Near winter solstice away from the equator, even in mild sunny weather there is less ambient red/infrared light. It is a time of year when thyroid augmentation goes more slowly. For those of us who cannot quickly switch [geographic :^} ] hemispheres, supplementary incandescent/red light can help reduce winter stress and support thyroid function.

IMNHO, it can be difficult to distinguish between higher pulse and anxiety from stress hormones (adrenalin, etc.) in contrast to T3. If I had to put it into words, the high T3 state feels more like being over-caffeinated: racy and a little jittery, more than despondent and fearful. When there is more emotional overlay in the vigilant/higher pulse state, stress hormone action seems more likely. If the pulse is consistently near or over 100 at rest, please get health care provider guidance promptly.

"Of course", one can briefly cut back on T3 to see if the racy feeling subsides. Inconveniently, the relatively safe "anti-thyroid" measures to reduce an "accelerated" T3 state/over-boosted metabolism usually last a while.

My experience is that, in some cases, even small amounts of pregnenolone can potentiate thyroid augmentation in times of winter darkness. "FWIW YMMV"

 

[SQu]

Thanks aguilaroja for your quick response, apologies for my slow one. Red light is a good idea which I'll try. I spend between 30 minutes and currently several hours a day outside in the sun so thought that was enough. But as I have a red light I can easily add that.
I seldom get that racy feeling anymore but there is one time of day when pulse is sometimes around 100 and that's the afternoon when I'm pushing myself and haven't had much lunch. I think for many years this was always the case, explaining why I had tired aching depressed and grumpy evenings. Now it's far less common.
Pregnenolone I want to revisit. I stopped trying it as the supplement has silicon dioxide so I'll have to dissolve in vit e and pour off or filter (gets pricy on vit e oil) and also my last 2 migraines were courtesy of pregnenolone. I think this points towards it having potential so long as I have enough nutrition and glucose metabolism to stop that happening again.

 

[honeybee]

Sue that sounds alot like estrogen dominance issues.

 

[ilovethesea]

I'm not getting anywhere right now with thyroid. It is winter, true, but sunny, and not too cold. I'm also very busy and stressed. But depressed, emotional, overwhelmed out of proportion. Fat gain. Poor sleep.
From tiny beginnings 3.5 months ago my dose rose steadily (raised according to pulse and symptoms) and is now 30mcg t3 in 6 doses, and 12 mcgT4 @ night. I take Tertroxin and diotroxin.
I associate high pulse and anxiety with excess T3; and descent into more hypo symptoms with excess T4 or insufficient T3. I also read that hair loss is a common symptom of too little T4 to T3 so I watch for that: nothing.
My question: are there other signs that might tell me if I'm taking too much/little of T4 or T3? My symptoms seem all hypo yet T3 at relatively high levels isn't helping. Once or twice I took even more than 30mcg. Up to 45mcg. Nothing. Before, I'd have felt it immediately.
Should I take more T3? I'm wary of T4 as my body doesn't handle it well.
Umm - that's two questions! :?
Thanks for reading.

You sound hypo. Are you eating enough calories and protein? That could be a cause of the high pulse and anxiety when you increase your T3. That happened to me for a couple months after I changed my dosage ratio to a higher level of T3. (I went from the 4:1 NDT/Cynoplus ratio to what I take now which is 2 Cytomels during the day and 1/2 a Cynoplus at night... it's more a 1:1 ratio.) I found the adrenaline symptoms were always worse when I didn't eat enough so I gradually shifted to small meals throughout the day, and I stabilized. It could be that and/or you just need to give your body time to get adjusted.

I think you can increase by 1/2 to 1 grain equivalent every 6-8 wks. I don't think 45mcg of T3 is that much. I take 65mcg. Just because you can't feel it right away doesn't mean it's not doing something. Give it time.

I would keep going with the 2:1 ratio or even try 1:1, as I think a lot of us esp. females have trouble converting more T4 due to our higher estrogen. That could be another problem... too much T4. There is an RP quote about how thyroxine can become anti-thyroid.

 

[SQu]

Thanks for replies. 45 sounds a lot because I started out on 1 or 2, but good to hear you're also on that kind of ratio. Right now my ratio is about twice the amount of t3 than t4. And that could still rise. I've been on this level for 5 weeks.
I get enough calories and protein but I know glucose oxidation is not yet good. I try to avoid glucose especially in the evenings in a vain attempt to sleep better.
Estrogen I try to lower with the carrot as I have many signs of liver overload, eg low alcohol tolerance (don't drink anyway ) migraine history, car sickness, glycogen issues, ) aspirin has been a mainstay, coffee and all those things. How much is a grain?

 

[ilovethesea]

Are you restricting sugar? If so, why? I was going to recommend the opposite... I was told to do 1 cup of white sugar a day to help with glycogen stores in the liver and improve thyroid conversion. (Also since it's so hard to get enough good ripe fruit). I've seen a lot of improvements from increasing white sugar. I would not be afraid of it at all.

One grain is 60mg NDT... and contains something around 35mcg of T4 to 8mcg of T3. (That's what's in Erfa)

I think liver issues might improve with more thyroid. I had elevated liver enzymes for a long time when I was hypo... they normalized after a few months on an NDT thyroid dose. (Not that my doctor would ever admit to that being the fix!!)

The thyroid should help with the estrogen as well. Do you take progest E?

 

[SQu]

I'm trying to restrict but not cut out glucose, but raise fructose. I am drinking a fair bit of OJ, and have access to decent fruit, papaya at the moment, aiming for some fruit every day and 600ml OJ or more, plus about 80-100g fructose in place of table sugar, in coffee. I feel great on fruit and starting on granulated fructose instead of table sugar gave me a distinct boost. I am sugaring coffee with fructose rather than table sugar, and avoiding starch but not cutting it out entirely.
3 years ago I started eating sugar again after a long long gap, like 7 years + of low carb. I ate lots of white sugar, starch, and fruit. I put on a ton of weight that has become probably the source of most of my estrogen dominance problems. 50 pounds.
Nearly a year ago I started Peating, and the increase in sugar then again gave me a noticeable boost - like T3. Aspirin ditto. Weight stayed about the same.
Since then many ups and downs, but fructose noticeably works, while starches give me that relaxed woozy feeling followed by tiredness, aching, and poor sleep. That's why I'm avoiding glucose especially at night.

I am a little confused about the 'eating glucose to be able to eat glucose' idea.
I understand that just as cutting out carbs makes you carb intolerant, it's possible that cutting out glucose in particular makes you even more glucose intolerant, or simply does not give you progress in that area. But switching it for more fructose does seem to help. But first prize for me would be fixed glucose oxidation. That's what I'm trying to achieve. Apologies for not being that clear! This is a central, central issue for me and I am sure I am not the only one.
I too had raised liver enzymes, and that was long before low carb and other diet disasters. It makes sense that thyroid might help there too.
I can't really order anything on the internet as it often does not arrive. So I try hard to find a reasonable replacement locally. I can find a progesterone cream, a good one, and I have a capsule too that I need to dissolve in vit e oil and pour off because of the silicon dioxide. I'm out of it at the moment, been out of it for about a month. But it's on my list for tackling again. Soon. Some other estrogen symptoms have responded well to thyroid, salt and other minerals, etc. But progesterone, and pregnenolone too are priorities for getting up to speed on.
Thanks so much for the input!