Testosterone and metabolism

[PopSocket]

Would it be so unreasonable to consider the possibility that those Covid shots may have caused some of your issues or at least exacerbate them?

Thanks for pointing out the obvious !

This is completely anecdotal but one of my best friends who is/was/ extremely androgenic with T levels above the range/ the only person I know/ and very good muscular body is now with less than half of his T levels, age 34. He too got his first kid and is trying to put the blame on the kid and the pregnancy.

He is talking about a theory that once a man gets a kid his T levels go down so he doesn't cheat : D While he took 3 pfizer shots just prior to his dump in T levels. The mainstream talked about the spike protein causing drop in T levels and infertility but what about the spike protein from the vaccines ? Are they not the same thing ? The mainstream science talks about the proteins causing changes in the blood-testis barrier. Wonder how the vaccines somehow does not cause it ? I still remember the only study Haidut posted about vaccines as he shyes away from the topic and lowered ATP which is more than enough to cause all sorts of disturbances and accelerated aging : Decoding COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine Immunometabolism in Central Nervous System: human brain normal glial and glioma cells by Raman imaging

 

[CellularIconoclast]

You guys followed me over here from a thread literally about the New World Order, where I said I wasn't interested in your conspiracy theories... if you have some ideas about the connections between T, hCG, and metabolism I want to hear it, but you and I both know you would have no interest in this thread otherwise.

When I was a kid I liked to listen to Art Bell as I was falling asleep in bed, so I've heard it all before from the people that made them up. You can still find this stuff online, try googling "Coast to Coast vaccines." You'll love it. Maybe as a counterpoint also check out "This Week in Virology," a podcast about modern virology and vaccine research, and summarizes the recent papers and research in depth. One thing you might be shocked about his how critically virologists evaluate their own ideas and other work in their field... they argue critically and in depth. Some of the virologists interviewed on that show indeed choose not to get vaccinated, not to wear masks, etc. and explain why.

If you really really badly want to know what I think about the covid vaccines, you can pay me a consulting fee and we'll talk on zoom.

 

[youngsinatra]

HCG will work for secondary but not likely for primary hypogonadism. Has a doctor tested your fertility / sperm count etc?

 

[CellularIconoclast]

HCG will work for secondary but not likely for primary hypogonadism. Has a doctor tested your fertility / sperm count etc?

I haven't had my sperm count checked. I believe it is primary hypogonadism, because my LH levels were normal. However, I still have mostly just above or just below normal range testosterone levels... the hCG should keep that production where it is, and make it possible to quit testosterone in the future. More importantly, it keeps progesterone and other steroid hormone production up- reading from people on TRT, they have cognitive issues without it, because without LH/hCG, production of a lot of other steroids stops as well.

Honestly, right now I am not really interested in ideas to stop or change my TRT treatment... because I feel awesome, and am doing really well. I am just going to enjoy all of this energy and motivation, and use it towards living. "Energy is the only life." I feel really vibrantly alive, joyful, and powerful... like I have the energy and will to do whatever I set my mind to. Effort and the associated discomfort actually feel fun.

Before trying TRT I tried all of the standard peat stuff among other things, and kept retesting for months with no improvement before I decided to go for TRT. Mostly, I am just curious about the connections between T, hCG, and metabolism.

 

[Peatress]

Sorry @CellularIconoclast I couldn’t help myself. The idea of your year long hiatus, mostly spent in your bed, was just too much for me to resist. So, as my low IQ precludes me from engaging with your theory that fatherhood derails manhood, I will crawl away and hide beneath my tinfoil hat. Thanks for your offer but if I need a Science ™ lecture on vaccines my GP is willing to provide free information anytime.

Anyway, even if I don’t agree with you, I appreciate you posting your views here or elsewhere. Wishing you continued good health

 

[Peatress]

.

 

[PopSocket]

If you really really badly want to know what I think about the covid vaccines, you can pay me a consulting fee and we'll talk on zoom.

I will gladly pay you a generous fee after you actually dig your self out of this metabolic hole and tell me how you did it. I truly wish you succeed. I mean you only well.

And I am repeating, sorry if I am being super annoying at this point- if you remain on the current pufa and ester ridden injection protocol all you are doing is transferring the burden to your liver for the "benefit" of short term symptom relief. This won't last forever and its better to make slight adjustments here and there with the ultimate goal to be able to function without exogenous T. Do you really plan to inject forever ?

 

[CellularIconoclast]

I will gladly pay you a generous fee after you actually dig your self out of this metabolic hole and tell me how you did it. I truly wish you succeed. I mean you only well.

And I am repeating, sorry if I am being super annoying at this point- if you remain on the current pufa and ester ridden injection protocol all you are doing is transferring the burden to your liver for the "benefit" of short term symptom relief. This won't last forever and its better to make slight adjustments here and there with the ultimate goal to be able to function without exogenous T. Do you really plan to inject forever ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "metabolic hole?" My reason for making this thread was that my metabolism seems unexpectedly high, when I wasn't able to get that before even with high doses of T3/T4.

Like I said above, I am not in love with the idea of injecting PUFA directly into my body, but I also don't see any reason why it would be particularly harmful as the amounts are orders of magnitude less than I am already getting from food on a PUFA restricted diet. If I really wanted to, I could make this myself with a PUFA free triglyceride.

I don't mind injecting forever, if it means staying healthy and energetic. I would of course watch my blood work closely, my energy levels, etc. The life I want to live has really high energy and strength demands- I am an amateur strength athlete, have a high libido girlfriend, a single dad, a stressful job, etc. Like peats concept of having somewhat higher than natural metabolic function, I think that coupled with even slightly higher than natural testosterone seems great. High estrogen is a concern I will track, but previously my estrogen was quite low.

I was really reluctant to go this route initially, so I spent 3 months using everything I know to get my T levels up without this.... but it actually kept going down. I would need some new hint at the underlying cause to think it would be worth stopping again and seeing if I can go without it.

 

[youngsinatra]

Are you getting sufficient amounts of vitamin K2? (MK4)

I know K2 is crucial for testicular steroidogenesis and I think it’s effects on testosterone are independent of LH.

Menaquinone-4 enhances testosterone production in rats and testis-derived tumor cells

Vitamin K is essential for the posttranslational modification of various Gla proteins. Although it is widespread in several organs, including the testis, the function of vitamin K in these organs is not well characterized. In this study, we investigated ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin K deficiency reduces testosterone production in the testis through down-regulation of the Cyp11a a cholesterol side chain cleavage enzyme in rats

Vitamin K (K) is an essential factor for the posttranslational modification of blood coagulation factors as well as proteins in the bone matrix (Gla p…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[CellularIconoclast]

Are you getting sufficient amounts of vitamin K2? (MK4)

Yes, I supplement 500mcg MK4/d, along with lots of grass fed dairy.

 

[youngsinatra]

Yes, I supplement 500mcg MK4/d, along with lots of grass fed dairy.

Alright!

 

[youngsinatra]

If you get any new blood work, now that you are on HRT, please let us know and post it here. I am very interested.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

If you get any new blood work, now that you are on HRT, please let us know and post it here. I am very interested.

Will do, I will be getting more bloodwork soon.

I have had two new slightly adverse effects:
-In the last few days I suddenly developed an allergy to the grapeseed oil in the compounded TRT I am taking, so am having to switch to a mainstream pharma brand. These things really should be made from some kind of chemically pure lipid, ideally with viscosity controlled by chain length instead of unsaturation. Injecting yourself directly with any type of natural extract containing all types of biomolecules isn't ideal.
-My sex drive seems to be continually increasing, to the point that I feel like a teenager, and am thinking about sex constantly. My girlfriend seems to be enjoying it for now, but I suspect she will eventually get tired of it... quite literally because I have even been waking her up in the middle of the night. From what I've read this will probably subside in time.

 

[PopSocket]

Will do, I will be getting more bloodwork soon.

I have had two new slightly adverse effects:
-In the last few days I suddenly developed an allergy to the grapeseed oil in the compounded TRT I am taking, so am having to switch to a mainstream pharma brand.

Warned you about those oils a week ago.

cotton seed oil from the pharma grade is much worse ! Those "allergic" reactions are just the beginning of massive inflammation all around the body by injecting pufa.

The best and most reliable way to induce an allergy to any protein is to inject it directly into the tissue and let the body create antibodies. You are essentially sensitizing the system to pufa and probably I guess, just a theory, the end point is autoimmune. Never went so far to say but just keep that in the back of your mind. The liver issues caused by the esters - you will know when it is quite late. I give you no more than 3 years from the start of your TRT treatment to feel like ***t and unable to sleep/inflammation/quick aging or other weird symptoms.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

The best and most reliable way to induce an allergy to any protein is to inject it directly into the tissue and let the body create antibodies. You are essentially sensitizing the system to pufa and probably I guess, just a theory, the end point is autoimmune. Never went so far to say but just keep that in the back of your mind. The liver issues caused by the esters - you will know when it is quite late. I give you no more than 3 years from the start of your TRT treatment to feel like ***t and unable to sleep/inflammation/quick aging or other weird symptoms.

I spent a lot of time studying peoples personal long term experiences in forums, as well as the literature on this. The majority of people do well long term on TRT, I don't see why I would be unique. It is very common to have an immune reaction to one of the oil carriers, and never have this reaction with another. If it were just a simple reaction to PUFA itself, you wouldn't see it resolve when switching to a different oil.

I can't really overstate how much better my life is on TRT.... if it were true that it massively reduces my long term health and lifespan, I would gladly accept that. There are some things I really wanted to accomplish in this life, that I couldn't before, but now can.

Realistically, I don't have the knowledge or tools to solve this problem some other way. I don't know what the underlying cause is, and I have already tried everything Peat's theories would suggest trying, to no avail... and regret all of the time I wasted doing that. The reduction in testosterone levels is a global trend, and people have lots of theories, but nobody really knows the cause yet. I've been studying Peat for a very long time, have read everything he wrote, and was inspired to pursue a PhD in a related field where I now research Peat inspired ideas as an academic PI. I don't know everything, but solving this problem some other way, without TRT, sounds great, but at some point I just need to have my energy back so I can function.

 

[Sitaruîm]

If you get any new blood work, now that you are on HRT, please let us know and post it here. I am very interested.

I've never tested my androgens and will do so soon. What are the most important markers to test?

I was thinking free and total testosterone, dht, and prolactin. Are things like cortisol and estrogen important as well? Prolactin may be a surrogate for estrogen, right?

 

[EustaceBagge]

Will do, I will be getting more bloodwork soon.

I have had two new slightly adverse effects:
-In the last few days I suddenly developed an allergy to the grapeseed oil in the compounded TRT I am taking, so am having to switch to a mainstream pharma brand. These things really should be made from some kind of chemically pure lipid, ideally with viscosity controlled by chain length instead of unsaturation. Injecting yourself directly with any type of natural extract containing all types of biomolecules isn't ideal.
-My sex drive seems to be continually increasing, to the point that I feel like a teenager, and am thinking about sex constantly. My girlfriend seems to be enjoying it for now, but I suspect she will eventually get tired of it... quite literally because I have even been waking her up in the middle of the night. From what I've read this will probably subside in time.

The increasing sex drive might be estrogen related though. Or as you said, getting used to it/fluctuations. This is coincidental with the "allergy" you seem to be developing.

I've never tested my androgens and will do so soon. What are the most important markers to test?

I was thinking free and total testosterone, dht, and prolactin. Are things like cortisol and estrogen important as well? Prolactin may be a surrogate for estrogen, right?

Estrogen is useful if your on trt, not so much if your roiding. If you are on trt you can use estrogen to compare yourself to natural baseline, very useful. Also, shbg may shed a lot of insight. Especially if it is low, as it can indicate hormonal issues. Prolactin does shed light on estrogenic activity, but it can also be elevated by stress in general.

Cortisol is just a bonus, if you have previous bloodwork you can compare prolactin/cortisol ratio to your new ratio to gain insight in how testosterone helped you overcome stress/boost metabolism. Would be interesting for sure.

 

[Runenight201]

@CellularIconoclast What's your diet on a typical day? Do you keep track of macros or total caloric intake? Besides the TRT, do you take any other supplements or hormones?

I've noticed that nothing spikes my androgens up like consuming high quality meat products with fat on the bone, so I'm working on a theory that unless consuming a traditional nose to tail diet, most people are destined for subpar health due to poor hormonal function. The fat also contains all the fat soluble vitamins A,D,E,K, so most people if not consuming traditional foods are going to be deficient. Eating a quality piece of meat is an insta-kill on my anxiety and disease state. I believe you are getting these benefits from supplementing testosterone and honestly if it gives you the quality of life you want than I see no reason to stop but I do wonder if perhaps there may be a more wholesome approach to it. For instance, instead of directly injecting test, boosting the pre-cursors to test so that your body doesn't stop naturally producing its own, which can be done eating either a traditional diet or supplementing with various upstream hormones and fat solubles.

If nose to tail is the food we thrive best on, and it is deprived from womb through development into adulthood, at best you get pathological development, and at worse there's eventual disease when the inevitable stress of life becomes unbearable.

I myself am very skeptical that the vaccine is causing the poor health that most of us are now finding ourselves in, but rather subscribe more to a sociopsycho model where societally we are changing our behaviors in ways that are very degenerative and detrimental, and this has all accelerated due to the pandemic. In general, many people I am noticing are operating out of a very paranoid/anxious state, constantly glued to the social media and the news, which is providing a continuous drip of anxiety and fear, leading to an increase in cortisol, estrogen, and serotonin. I've witnessed first hand my parents who never got the vaccine and are hardcore anti-vaxxers to have sky high cortisol, estrogen, and serotonin and are insanely paranoid, prone to every conspiracy theory out there and toxically religious. Not too mention that these toxic digital behaviors will then hijack a solid routine that is consistent with good health, such as preparing traditional foods, bonding with each other, physical contact, sunlight, leisure activities, etc...

 

[EustaceBagge]

@CellularIconoclast What's your diet on a typical day? Do you keep track of macros or total caloric intake? Besides the TRT, do you take any other supplements or hormones?

I've noticed that nothing spikes my androgens up like consuming high quality meat products with fat on the bone, so I'm working on a theory that unless consuming a traditional nose to tail diet, most people are destined for subpar health due to poor hormonal function. The fat also contains all the fat soluble vitamins A,D,E,K, so most people if not consuming traditional foods are going to be deficient. Eating a quality piece of meat is an insta-kill on my anxiety and disease state. I believe you are getting these benefits from supplementing testosterone and honestly if it gives you the quality of life you want than I see no reason to stop but I do wonder if perhaps there may be a more wholesome approach to it. For instance, instead of directly injecting test, boosting the pre-cursors to test so that your body doesn't stop naturally producing its own, which can be done eating either a traditional diet or supplementing with various upstream hormones and fat solubles.

If nose to tail is the food we thrive best on, and it is deprived from womb through development into adulthood, at best you get pathological development, and at worse there's eventual disease when the inevitable stress of life becomes unbearable.

I myself am very skeptical that the vaccine is causing the poor health that most of us are now finding ourselves in, but rather subscribe more to a sociopsycho model where societally we are changing our behaviors in ways that are very degenerative and detrimental, and this has all accelerated due to the pandemic. In general, many people I am noticing are operating out of a very paranoid/anxious state, constantly glued to the social media and the news, which is providing a continuous drip of anxiety and fear, leading to an increase in cortisol, estrogen, and serotonin. I've witnessed first hand my parents who never got the vaccine and are hardcore anti-vaxxers to have sky high cortisol, estrogen, and serotonin and are insanely paranoid, prone to every conspiracy theory out there and toxically religious. Not too mention that these toxic digital behaviors will then hijack a solid routine that is consistent with good health, such as preparing traditional foods, bonding with each other, physical contact, sunlight, leisure activities, etc...

Holy ***t... I even have this myself, can't handle noise from traffic anymore and have low stress tolerance. Maybe it's the bleak future? I think it has to do with the pandemic making the obvious very obvious, people are faced with accepting reality or continuing their facade (madness), so it's forcing them out of "normie" state. If I'm correct, we will be seeing a lot of scapegoats in the near future just to avoid the ACTUAL truth. We are not ruled by benefactors, to say the least.

I also find that this stress is universal in a way, thinking, acting, working out, recovering, all is impacted. What did you do to get out of it? I'm already on testosterone and I find it a double edged sword: It provides better stress resilience, but if you stress out the price you pay is higher. Just like how women that stress out have less hair loss than men (given hair loss genetics). As a man, it is as if calmness is a duty that comes with a price, I can either be real calm or the stress will **** me up, no inbetween.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

@CellularIconoclast What's your diet on a typical day? Do you keep track of macros or total caloric intake? Besides the TRT, do you take any other supplements or hormones?

I am a competitive amateur strength athlete (strongman), train very hard, and have a professional coach. I eat a lot of fatty meat, eggs, and milk to keep protein intake high, but in a low PUFA context, and eat organ meat and shellfish. I get carbs mostly from from potatoes and fruit.

I myself am very skeptical that the vaccine is causing the poor health that most of us are now finding ourselves in, but rather subscribe more to a sociopsycho model where societally we are changing our behaviors in ways that are very degenerative and detrimental, and this has all accelerated due to the pandemic. In general, many people I am noticing are operating out of a very paranoid/anxious state, constantly glued to the social media and the news, which is providing a continuous drip of anxiety and fear, leading to an increase in cortisol, estrogen, and serotonin. I've witnessed first hand my parents who never got the vaccine and are hardcore anti-vaxxers to have sky high cortisol, estrogen, and serotonin and are insanely paranoid, prone to every conspiracy theory out there and toxically religious. Not too mention that these toxic digital behaviors will then hijack a solid routine that is consistent with good health, such as preparing traditional foods, bonding with each other, physical contact, sunlight, leisure activities, etc...

100% agree, this is exactly the "authoritarian personality" Ray Peat talks about, and it is frustrating to see it becoming the norm even on this forum. Most of the threads on this forum are now part of that toxic drip, with, e.g. constant fear based posts about conspiracies and vaccines. If you take any one of the posts there is no depth to them... people aren't even understanding what it means to actually know something deeply in the Peat sense. How much work and curiosity that takes... how you need to keep questioning yourself and digging deeper and keeping an open mind.

My elderly parents now spend most of the time watching news, and being enraged about things that are mis-represented intentionally, that they don't understand at all... and it is really sad to see them reduced to that state.