The Safest Source Of PUFA

[Josh]

Hey guys, spoke about this a lot because there’s absolutely nothing online to say where these come from and I am DESPERATE for an answer. (Main question 3rd paragraph).

Basically for people who have not seen previous posts, since starting ray peat WOE back in 2017 June I cut out all pufa.. since then I have had these sebaceous filaments (solidified sebum which plagues the skin all over my face, scalp and minimally on chest and back. it pokes out like little rice grains from pores and fills back up in hours of them being removed, their not blackheads) before finding RP I had normal oily skin, wasn’t dry, didn’t have filaments etc. (Alongside the filaments my skin has very minimal oil throughout the body, eczema etc)

I have been eating salmon once or twice a week, I eat more chicken breast than before, but I don’t think this enough.. I’m looking to ramp it up and start eating Sunflower seeds daily.. MY QUESTION is, what would be the ‘safer’ pufa food I could introduce? Is sunflower seeds the best one? Is there a safer Nut you would introduce? Obviously none of you will say it’s safer because it’s pufa but I’m referring more to something that is less estrogenic, better for the gut etc etc, not the pufa content it self, because that’s what I actually want.


So obviously being in a ray peat group a lot of you will disagree with this and I don’t want to hear ANYTHING about the dangers of pufa and all that’s because I’ve read enough about this and have STRICTLY avoided them for nearly 3 years.. I’m just interested in getting my skin right.. I have spoke to many people who have had more dry skin since starting this WOE. Also, I found ray peat when I was 18, all my life I don’t believe I have had a diet that high in pufa, so unlike some others who find RP later on, I could have depleted my PUFA stores quickly, it took about 1-2 months of eating low pufa for my skin to start getting dry.

 

[Tenacity]

There is no safe source of PUFA; PUFA is not safe. I eat a low PUFA diet and do not suffer from dry skin. How do you know it's low PUFA causing this?

 

[YourUniverse]

"EFA deficiency" can be fixed with more B6 tmk

 

[Redshine]

Liver my holy grail if something wrong with my skin. I do sometines cook with red palm oil (vit a and e)

 

[Josh]

There is no safe source of PUFA; PUFA is not safe. I eat a low PUFA diet and do not suffer from dry skin. How do you know it's low PUFA causing this?

Because it’s just a major coincidence that since finding Ray peat and cutting PUFA I’ve had this problem..I know many others who get dry skin when they do this.. I’m thinking: I’ve had mild eczema all my life, so maybe I have greater need for pufa to keep on top of it

 

[Josh]

Liver my holy grail if something wrong with my skin. I do sometines cook with red palm oil (vit a and e)

I’ve tried liver weekly for months, didn’t make a difference, I still eat liver weekly now

 

[Josh]

"EFA deficiency" can be fixed with more B6 tmk

what are good sources of b6

 

[YourUniverse]

what are good sources of b6

Organ and muscle meats, milk, eggs, tubers.

Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

"When researchers at the Clayton Foundation Biochemical Institute at the University of Texas demonstrated that "Burr's disease" was actually a vitamin B6 deficiency, rather than a fatty acid deficiency, the issue was settled. Later studies failed to confirm the existence of the Burr disease caused by a deficiency of fatty acids, though many similar conditions were produced by a variety of other dietary defects. In 1938, a group in Burr's own laboratory (Brown, et al.) failed to produce dermatitis in a man during a six month experiment. Neither of the other major features of the Burr disease, male sterility and kidney degeneration, has been subsequently confirmed. The claim that polyunsaturated fatty acid deficiency caused sterility of male animals ("A new and uniform cause of sterility is shown") was quickly dropped, probably because an excess of polyunsaturated fats was discovered to be an important cause of testicular degeneration and sterility."

...

Ray Peat

"The early studies showing "essentiality" of unsaturated fats, by producing skin problems and an increased metabolic rate, have been criticized [18] in the light of better nutritional information, e.g., pointing out that the diets might have been deficient in vitamin B6 and/or biotin. The similar skin condition produced by vitamin B6 deficiency was found to be improved by adding unsaturated fats to the diet. A fat-free liver extract cured the "EFA deficiency." I think it would be reasonable to investigate the question of the increased metabolic rate produced by a diet lacking unsaturated fats (which inhibit both thyroid function and protein metabolism) in relation to the biological changes that have been observed. Since diets rich in protein are known to increase the requirement for vitamin B6 [19] (which is a co-factor of transaminases, for example), the increased rate of energy production and improved digestibility of dietary protein on a diet lacking unsaturated fats would certainly make it reasonable to provide the experimental animals with increased amount of other nutrients."

...

If what you're experiencing is EFA deficiency it might be worth getting a B6 supplement, Ray has said that even 1 dose can reverse a long-standing deficiency. Note that Ray said Biotin deficiency can mimic "EFA deficiency" as well. Eggs and liver are good sources of biotin (and milk is OK too)

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Organ and muscle meats, milk, eggs, tubers.

Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

"When researchers at the Clayton Foundation Biochemical Institute at the University of Texas demonstrated that "Burr's disease" was actually a vitamin B6 deficiency, rather than a fatty acid deficiency, the issue was settled. Later studies failed to confirm the existence of the Burr disease caused by a deficiency of fatty acids, though many similar conditions were produced by a variety of other dietary defects. In 1938, a group in Burr's own laboratory (Brown, et al.) failed to produce dermatitis in a man during a six month experiment. Neither of the other major features of the Burr disease, male sterility and kidney degeneration, has been subsequently confirmed. The claim that polyunsaturated fatty acid deficiency caused sterility of male animals ("A new and uniform cause of sterility is shown") was quickly dropped, probably because an excess of polyunsaturated fats was discovered to be an important cause of testicular degeneration and sterility."

...

Ray Peat

"The early studies showing "essentiality" of unsaturated fats, by producing skin problems and an increased metabolic rate, have been criticized [18] in the light of better nutritional information, e.g., pointing out that the diets might have been deficient in vitamin B6 and/or biotin. The similar skin condition produced by vitamin B6 deficiency was found to be improved by adding unsaturated fats to the diet. A fat-free liver extract cured the "EFA deficiency." I think it would be reasonable to investigate the question of the increased metabolic rate produced by a diet lacking unsaturated fats (which inhibit both thyroid function and protein metabolism) in relation to the biological changes that have been observed. Since diets rich in protein are known to increase the requirement for vitamin B6 [19] (which is a co-factor of transaminases, for example), the increased rate of energy production and improved digestibility of dietary protein on a diet lacking unsaturated fats would certainly make it reasonable to provide the experimental animals with increased amount of other nutrients."

...

If what you're experiencing is EFA deficiency it might be worth getting a B6 supplement, Ray has said that even 1 dose can reverse a long-standing deficiency. Note that Ray said Biotin deficiency can mimic "EFA deficiency" as well. Eggs and liver are good sources of biotin (and milk is OK too)

I had derm-symptomatology with low PUFA that didnt go away with a thought-through supp-regimen.Peat is also wrong in his assessment of the literature,there are so many data-points,and immoral human experimentation and via total parenteral nutrition-side effecting,which are reasonably documented.Even his often cited Mead-Acid dude was 'believing' in necessity of pufa.

..James Mead was of the opinion that the surface membrane of cells need fluidity and unsaturatedness to express surface attributes like receptor-systems normally.

 

[ecstatichamster]

PUFAs are very harmful unless your body makes them. It is very difficult to get low PUFAs to deplete those that are stored in your fat cells. When you sleep, fast or exercise, the free fatty acids that get released include high PUFA fat, which depresses metabolism and destroys delicate cells such as Leydig cells, beta cells and thymus.

Dr. Peat is so spot on on this. If you are asking how to increase PUFA, it is like asking, how can I increase the number of cigarettes I smoke.

It is quite possible that your skin issue can be resolved by correcting some other deficiency. PUFA made me feel better for awhile when I was into consuming fatty fish and fish oil. It suppresses immunity so it can make you feel better temporarily but it will have very bad longer term results including raising the likelihood of cancer.

 

[mrchibbs]

I do think there is more to the EFA/B6 story than we understand at this point, and Edwards J. Edmonds (The Last Breath - In the end, you will suffocate to death. The work of Edward J Edmonds.)
is exploring this topic on his excellent blog.

That being said, I think you're being rather too sure of yourself in focusing on PUFAs as the solution to your problem. Vitamin B6 deficiency, as mentioned by others above, is implicated in skin disorders (B vitamins - Wikipedia)

Vitamin A, Zinc (which interacts with A) and many other things could be at play here. Vitamin A, especially, is directly implicated in unblocking pores. (https://theskincareedit.com/2017/04/25/vitamin-a-for-acne) And more importantly, it directly opposes skin shedding which is what makes the skin dry. I think the problem is right there.

If you've really been as strict as you say since 2017 and considering you're very young (21?), I suspect your metabolic rate must be quite high by now? If I'd done zero PUFA at your age, I would have been literally on fire haha

I think you requirement for vitamin A have probably become increased with your high metabolic rate. You may need vitamin E too to protect vitamin A from oxidation. Eat more liver, eggs, and shellfish for a while (those two sources contain PUFAs and are the safest, being also very rich in other vitamins and minerals).

Summer is near, prep your body and get some sun, I suspect everything will clear up nicely.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I do think there is more to the EFA/B6 story than we understand at this point, and Edwards J. Edmonds (The Last Breath - In the end, you will suffocate to death. The work of Edward J Edmonds.)
is exploring this topic on his excellent blog.

That being said, I think you're being rather too sure of yourself in focusing on PUFAs as the solution to your problem. Vitamin B6 deficiency, as mentioned by others above, is implicated in skin disorders (B vitamins - Wikipedia)

Vitamin A, Zinc (which interacts with A) and many other things could be at play here. Vitamin A, especially, is directly implicated in unblocking pores. (https://theskincareedit.com/2017/04/25/vitamin-a-for-acne) And more importantly, it directly opposes skin shedding which is what makes the skin dry. I think the problem is right there.

If you've really been as strict as you say since 2017 and considering you're very young (21?), I suspect your metabolic rate must be quite high by now? If I'd done zero PUFA at your age, I would have been literally on fire haha

I think you requirement for vitamin A have probably become increased with your high metabolic rate. You may need vitamin E too to protect vitamin A from oxidation. Eat more liver, eggs, and shellfish for a while (those two sources contain PUFAs and are the safest, being also very rich in other vitamins and minerals).

Summer is near, prep your body and get some sun, I suspect everything will clear up nicely.

all this didnt do much at all for my derm.Also,my metabolism wasnt on fire,it is just a meme.

 

[somuch4food]

My opinion is that animal sources are safest, then I'd use sunflower seeds because of its vitamin E content. Others, I would not want to consume too frequently.

I personally like sunflower seeds as a snack and they sometimes help clearing my nose so that I can breathe more easily. They are packed with many nutrients that can make up for the PUFA they contain.

 

[mrchibbs]

all this didnt do much at all for my derm.Also,my metabolism wasnt on fire,it is just a meme.

Ok. That has not been my experience, and I've managed to totally deal with my skin disorders.

 

[RealNeat]

Hey guys, spoke about this a lot because there’s absolutely nothing online to say where these come from and I am DESPERATE for an answer. (Main question 3rd paragraph).

Basically for people who have not seen previous posts, since starting ray peat WOE back in 2017 June I cut out all pufa.. since then I have had these sebaceous filaments (solidified sebum which plagues the skin all over my face, scalp and minimally on chest and back. it pokes out like little rice grains from pores and fills back up in hours of them being removed, their not blackheads) before finding RP I had normal oily skin, wasn’t dry, didn’t have filaments etc. (Alongside the filaments my skin has very minimal oil throughout the body, eczema etc)

I have been eating salmon once or twice a week, I eat more chicken breast than before, but I don’t think this enough.. I’m looking to ramp it up and start eating Sunflower seeds daily.. MY QUESTION is, what would be the ‘safer’ pufa food I could introduce? Is sunflower seeds the best one? Is there a safer Nut you would introduce? Obviously none of you will say it’s safer because it’s pufa but I’m referring more to something that is less estrogenic, better for the gut etc etc, not the pufa content it self, because that’s what I actually want.


So obviously being in a ray peat group a lot of you will disagree with this and I don’t want to hear ANYTHING about the dangers of pufa and all that’s because I’ve read enough about this and have STRICTLY avoided them for nearly 3 years.. I’m just interested in getting my skin right.. I have spoke to many people who have had more dry skin since starting this WOE. Also, I found ray peat when I was 18, all my life I don’t believe I have had a diet that high in pufa, so unlike some others who find RP later on, I could have depleted my PUFA stores quickly, it took about 1-2 months of eating low pufa for my skin to start getting dry.

read my black seed oil post. Also I had the same exact thing around my eyes. They resolved on their own but I was doing more vitamin E and D.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Ok. That has not been my experience, and I've managed to totally deal with my skin disorders.

As what type of skin disorder would you describe your symptoms?
What changed for you after low-PUFA?What amount was the intake before and after?

 

[mrchibbs]

As what type of skin disorder would you describe your symptoms?
What changed for you after low-PUFA?What amount was the intake before and after?

Dry skin with red patches - a type of seborrhoea - and also sudden lipofuscin formation from sun exposure when I was ill. I think I was starting to reduce my PUFAs
store, but stress/illness elevated my FFA in the blood and gave me spots/sudden premature wrinkles on my skin in my mid20s.

My biggest problem at first was too much vitamin A from liver, and a low metabolism, and the lack of vitamin E, which made vitamin A oxidize, and made my skin so bad (dry)
Then it became not enough vitamin A as my metabolism went up, so it was an effort to find good balance, and enough zinc, selenium etc. All those minerals interact with A, D, K, E.
I read a lot in physiology textbooks. Over those 2 years, PUFA intake went from 20+g a day to 4-5g.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Dry skin with red patches - a type of seborrhoea - and also sudden lipofuscin formation from sun exposure when I was ill. I think I was starting to reduce my PUFAs
store, but stress/illness elevated my FFA in the blood and gave me spots/sudden premature wrinkles on my skin in my mid20s.

My biggest problem at first was too much vitamin A from liver, and a low metabolism, and the lack of vitamin E, which made vitamin A oxidize, and made my skin so bad (dry)
Then it became not enough vitamin A as my metabolism went up, so it was an effort to find good balance, and enough zinc, selenium etc. All those minerals interact with A, D, K, E.
I read a lot in physiology textbooks. Over those 2 years, PUFA intake went from 20+g a day to 4-5g.

Do you think that the amount should just be lowered or that PUFAs are a Poison and unnecessary?

 

[mrchibbs]

Do you think that the amount should just be lowered or that PUFAs are a Poison and unnecessary?

I don't think they're a poison. It should just be lowered. It's a matter of context, just like for vitamin A.
I think the evidence is obvious that they wreck havoc in times of stress, and are susceptible to lipid peroxidation.
That's why for the rest of my life, I'll take some aspirin and vitamin E to prevent those things.

Foods like eggs and shellfish are so important to my health, and contain PUFAs. So I try not to worry about it. Plus, as I've alluded to, there is *some* evidence that we don't fully understand EFA so well.

But the vegetable/seed oils are totally useless and dangerous. They're just straight PUFAs with no redeeming qualities.
Basically, avoid those things, and reach a good enough balance in your diet/tissues so that your body temperature gets to the optimal levels.
(Body temperature is basically determined by the composition of fats in our tissues).

 

[Josh]

Guys i just think it is way to much of a coincidence that after i stopped consuming any source of PUFA that i started noticing dry skin.. I noticed this straight away but at the time would never have put it down to PUFA as i had just studied everything possible from RP and was completely bought on the idea, so i just put it to the back of my mind and have tried so many things since 2017 september

.. but i always think if it was REALLY things like b6 deficiency or some sort of mineral or vitamin deficiency then most people would have dry skin, but the opposite is usually the case, i work in a big office and i rarely rarely see people with dry skin, i see people with oily skin all day long, and these peoples diets are ****88, like literally as you've all probably seen 95% of the populations diets are ****88, full of pufa etc but i notice their skins are always full of moisture.. people normally complain of oily skin