Throw away your orange juice and supplements and see what happens.

[FocusedOnHealth]

So I met someone on this forumn. We connected. And became close with one another. Both of us discussing and trying to get to the bottom of our issues after years of being crippled with mental/physical issues. Both thriving for years prior. A combo of our own choices/ toxicity and some bad luck disabled each of us. Unable to leave our house,MCAS, losing weight rapidly, fatty liver, schizophrenic tendencies/ unable to feel joy.

Things got really ugly once we started using a myriad of “pro metabolic” supplements and drinking absurd amounts of orange juice and sugar etc. Our entire existence was consumed by supplements thinking that would heal us. We were each helped dozens of different times for a whopping 2 days at a time from all diff supplements and protocols touted to cure all lol. Always back to square one.

To get the point what we came to realize is the low blood sugar from supplements was the true pit fall. Constantly lowered blood sugar from supplementation. Vicious cycle. No matter the dose. Every supplement when in this fragile state seems to just disrupt homeostasis even further. And while the body was probably always fighting to return to homeostasis, we kept intervening and worsening our health. Every supplement would work at times and not others. No way of gauging what was actually hurting or helping. when the nervous system is so beat, nothing synthetic or isolated, is able to be of use. Even if you are deficient, the body doesn’t know how to process and utilize synthetic supplements when under severe stress.

The body perceives EVERYTHING foreign as a threat. The combo of allergic reactions/histamine issues/ and mostly
LOWERED BLOOD SUGAR did a number on us. You can not use metabolic boosting supplements and drink a quart of freaking orange juice when you have no base. You have to build The base. The base isn’t built w loads of sugar, or supplements. You add those on to a preexisting base. It sets you up for a nice ride on the blood sugar rollercoaster if you’ve got
No base. On top of that the manic behavior from being consumed from freaking pills and potions is another story. Both of us had to give our supplements to our partners to hide. Zero restraint. Embarrassing.

Moral of the story we are absolutely astonished by the progress made in only 3 weeks of dropping supplements cold turkey. Mood stabilized greatly, weight went up, bowels became PERFECT. Eating dense food each meal. Meat, potatoes, rice , eggs, cheese. Little bit of milk and Cheese and seasonal fruit. Not milk and OJ and all day. Been there done that.

We know this isn’t a new idea to not use supps , by some on here, but clearly many are still caught in this loop. To each their own. If supplements help you. Great.. but I simply don’t think you’re going to heal if you’re really messed up by drinking orange juice and sugar all day while snorting methylene blue and aspirin all night with a side of niacimide and some pregneleone. It only further worsened and added chaos to an already chaotic system.

I Just want to reiterate if you’ve been sick for years trying Every damn supplement that was Supposed to cure you overnight… that You have nothing to lose by stopping everything on a dime, and seeing how 3 weeks of that makes you feel.

Curious.. what is causing the low blood sugar issues from supplements when youre ****88 up. It so apparent and some how we just didn’t stop even after years of basically knowing the supplements were tanking blood sugar. Maybe some people don’t get it that ? But boy it’s so apparent after stopping for weeks. I no longer have this feeling of running on “dirty energy”. I just feel so so so much more grounded and stable with ZERO supplements. Maybe it’s person specific, but I just never felt good on any supplement ever , no matter the dose. Even if I needed thst nurtient, when it came in supplement form it just made me feel tweaked out, snd artificially jacked up my craving for sugar.

So the moral of the story is you started eating real nutrious food and improved. Meat, eggs, potatoes, cheese etc. And you stopped going overboard eating massive amounts of them, plus you stopped massive amounts of supplements.

Makes sense to me.

 

[tommyg130]

So the moral of the story is you started eating real nutrious food and improved. Meat, eggs, potatoes, cheese etc. And you stopped going overboard eating massive amounts of them, plus you stopped massive amounts of supplements.

Makes sense to me.

Basically yeah. I was always eating nutritious foods, but yes I had to cut down dramatically on the juice/sugar/fruit and milk/vitamin A

 

[Santosh]

Just to say that Ray said the oranges are moldy

All of them ? Every single orange on planet Earth ?

 

[Santosh]

Hi. No i haven’t why?

They obviously affect how one feels, it was worth asking to help you.

 

[Immanency]

All of them ? Every single orange on planet Earth ?

looooool

 

[Birdie]

All of them ? Every single orange on planet Earth ?

I just remember something about his saying about moldy oranges being his reason. Good point of course that he wouldn't mean ever single orange on earth.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Blindly drinking 400g-500g of carbs a day is in most circumstances going to cause problems. Also freely drinking orange juice unopposed without fat and protein probably isn’t ideal for most people. You’re not sending your kid to school with a bottle of orange juice and some gelatin.

Balance and feel for your body is critical. Everyone’s balance of macros is different and can only be optimized by the individual person.

I do better with no supplements, higher protein, more fat and timing my carbs (100-150g) around activity.

I've come to realize that "high metabolism" is mostly a meme. Even if one supposedly manages to have a faster metabolism, it will only account for a 10-15% difference. You cannot significantly raise your basal metabolic rate.
Carb intake should definitely be correlated with activity level.

This notion of “earning your carbs” is retarted. Your brain literally runs on glucose.

100g of carbs is absurd

Cope.
And you folks wonder why you get fat and get gyno when you eat over 300g of carbs/ day while being sedentary.

 

[Immanency]

Cope.
And you folks wonder why you get fat and get gyno when you eat over 300g of carbs/ day while being sedentary.

hello,i suggest you to consider a perspective:

you are potentially the one coping,and projecting,are you not the one that got gyno eating 300 grammes of carbs/day while being sedentary?

the notion of earning your carbs is at least partially fraudulent, especially when there are clear examples disproving the absolute necessity of "earning your carbs" through intense exercise to strive for optimal health

 

[sunny]

If you passed eggs that means your HCL is probably low since the proteins would be digested by the time they even get to the intestines.

Iron is necessary for protein synthesis in the brain which is probably why supplementation has been shown in rates to increase dopamine receptors. I have seen research it also increases synthesis of glutamate receptors and its probably involved in others as well. As for dopamine, you need it to make dopamine as well as to break it down via MAO-B. So it disturbs metabolism because you cant make it and break down normally. It may worsen slow MAO because it is needed for MAO (MAO-B at least). In rodents they Its also necessary to make serotonin, nitric oxide...

Theres a lot of research on the effects of iron on the brain and metabolism of monoamines. Cant really write it all down in a post. I would suggest you look into it if your interested.

What tests do you think are needed to assess iron status? More than the following that the Life Extension panel contains? What values are considered ok? Are there other factors to consider?
LE panel contains the following tests:
Iron, Serum
Iron Saturation
Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC)
Unsaturated Iron Binding Capacity (UIBC)
Ferritin

 

[sunny]

In regards to iron, here are some bits I have picked up here and there:

IRON

RP: High Iron, particularly if it’s the Iron Saturation %, just like Prolactin, is a sign of high estrogen. Are you dealing with your thyroid first?

DR: “Estrogen and the hypoxia , and the low thyroid increasing the estrogen promoting the hypoxia, that is what’s making the iron accumulate and displace the copper. It’s not just a random iron overload situation right”

DR: “So the iron overload is actually hyperesteogenemia
RP: “I think so, in most cases”
Danny Roddy Clips

High Iron, particularly if it’s the Iron Saturation %, just like Prolactin, is a sign of high estrogen. Are you dealing with your thyroid first?
-------‐------------
think improving nutrition in general might be a better idea than addressing iron directly since people can have a high level of stored iron combined with a low level of red blood cells. One should be eating gelatin, liver, oysters, shrimps, fruits, cooked green vegetables, etc. (e.g.: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, copper, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. ). Here are a few articles/quotes which might help:

Ray Peat on copper deficiency and iron, their relationship
Ray Peat - Iron's dangers
Danny Roddy - Iron Overload, Perturbed Redox Balance, and Meddling Serotonin

On Anemia
Anemia in itself doesn't imply that there is a nutritional need for iron. - Ray Peat
It is possible to have too much iron in the blood while being anemic. - Ray Peat
Anemic means lacking blood, in the sense of not having enough red blood cells or hemoglobin. - Ray Peat
Most people define anemia as low iron, but should be classifying it as low bio-available copper causing increased saturation of iron in the tissues. - EastWest Healing

Thyroid
Abnormal thyroid status can affect ferritin level, without necessarily affecting your iron load. - Ray Peat

High estrogen
High estrogen causes hypoxia which in turn causes iron accumulation. - Danny Roddy (paraphrased from Ray Peat)

Copper and Vitamin A
Too much iron and too much stress makes us lose copper. -Ray Peat
The copper in oysters is protective against iron excess. - Ray Peat
Copper defends agains activated iron. Copper can turn ferrous iron back into the safer ferric iron. - Ray Peat
Vitamin A and bioavailable copper [from liver and shelfish] play a huge role in regulating iron ferrous to ferric iron. - EastWest Healing
Low iron and Low iron saturation –a sign your iron recycling programing is slowing down in response to a deficiency in bio-available copper [from liver and shelfish]. - East West Healing
Iron is regulated by bio-available copper and vitamin A. - EastWest Healing

Sunlight or Redlight
Regular good light exposure is probably important for preventing the displacement of copper by iron. - Ray Peat

Things that lower iron
We are always shedding iron from intestines and skin cells. - Ray Peat (Patrick Timpone interview 2020-08)
Vitamin E and aspirin are two extremely effective ways of lowering iron levels in both tissues and brain. - Georgi Dinkov
‐-‐--------------------,------
"Low ferritin means low iron stores. Whether that means lower inflammation is not always clear but testing CRP and ESR would tell you that. In general, the lower the ferritin the lower inflammation since iron plays such a prominent role in inflammatory reactions." - Haidut

 

[David PS]

@sunny - Great collection of quotes. thank you for sharing

 

[sunny]

@sunny - Great collection of quotes. thank you for sharing

My pleasure.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

In regards to iron, here are some bits I have picked up here and there:

IRON

RP: High Iron, particularly if it’s the Iron Saturation %, just like Prolactin, is a sign of high estrogen. Are you dealing with your thyroid first?

DR: “Estrogen and the hypoxia , and the low thyroid increasing the estrogen promoting the hypoxia, that is what’s making the iron accumulate and displace the copper. It’s not just a random iron overload situation right”

DR: “So the iron overload is actually hyperesteogenemia
RP: “I think so, in most cases”
Danny Roddy Clips

High Iron, particularly if it’s the Iron Saturation %, just like Prolactin, is a sign of high estrogen. Are you dealing with your thyroid first?
-------‐------------
think improving nutrition in general might be a better idea than addressing iron directly since people can have a high level of stored iron combined with a low level of red blood cells. One should be eating gelatin, liver, oysters, shrimps, fruits, cooked green vegetables, etc. (e.g.: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, copper, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. ). Here are a few articles/quotes which might help:

Ray Peat on copper deficiency and iron, their relationship
Ray Peat - Iron's dangers
Danny Roddy - Iron Overload, Perturbed Redox Balance, and Meddling Serotonin

On Anemia
Anemia in itself doesn't imply that there is a nutritional need for iron. - Ray Peat
It is possible to have too much iron in the blood while being anemic. - Ray Peat
Anemic means lacking blood, in the sense of not having enough red blood cells or hemoglobin. - Ray Peat
Most people define anemia as low iron, but should be classifying it as low bio-available copper causing increased saturation of iron in the tissues. - EastWest Healing

Thyroid
Abnormal thyroid status can affect ferritin level, without necessarily affecting your iron load. - Ray Peat

High estrogen
High estrogen causes hypoxia which in turn causes iron accumulation. - Danny Roddy (paraphrased from Ray Peat)

Copper and Vitamin A
Too much iron and too much stress makes us lose copper. -Ray Peat
The copper in oysters is protective against iron excess. - Ray Peat
Copper defends agains activated iron. Copper can turn ferrous iron back into the safer ferric iron. - Ray Peat
Vitamin A and bioavailable copper [from liver and shelfish] play a huge role in regulating iron ferrous to ferric iron. - EastWest Healing
Low iron and Low iron saturation –a sign your iron recycling programing is slowing down in response to a deficiency in bio-available copper [from liver and shelfish]. - East West Healing
Iron is regulated by bio-available copper and vitamin A. - EastWest Healing

Sunlight or Redlight
Regular good light exposure is probably important for preventing the displacement of copper by iron. - Ray Peat

Things that lower iron
We are always shedding iron from intestines and skin cells. - Ray Peat (Patrick Timpone interview 2020-08)
Vitamin E and aspirin are two extremely effective ways of lowering iron levels in both tissues and brain. - Georgi Dinkov
‐-‐--------------------,------
"Low ferritin means low iron stores. Whether that means lower inflammation is not always clear but testing CRP and ESR would tell you that. In general, the lower the ferritin the lower inflammation since iron plays such a prominent role in inflammatory reactions." - Haidut

Thank you for these RP quotes sunny!

 

[sunny]

Thank you for these RP quotes sunny!

My pleasure.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Just to say that Ray said the oranges are moldy, so he was switching to grape juice. I tried it but didn't like and back to oj for us.

Ray Peat wrote me about concord grape juice being good for pain. He said to alternate it with milk. I stocked up on it…

My father's girlfriend broke her hip a month ago and has been bed ridden since. She has now texted me that she is experiencing numb feet and is asking me if "400 mg twice a day of magnesium might help with the numbness including my fingers."
What could I suggest to her?

"Magnesium supplements are usually irritating to the intestine; milk provides both magnesium and calcium in a safe way. Increasing her blood sugar helps with pain and might help numbness too. Is she using drugs for the pain? Concord grape juice, alternating with milk, helps to increase blood glucose and decrease inflammation and pain." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

So I met someone on this forumn. We connected. And became close with one another. Both of us discussing and trying to get to the bottom of our issues after years of being crippled with mental/physical issues. Both thriving for years prior. A combo of our own choices/ toxicity and some bad luck disabled each of us. Unable to leave our house,MCAS, losing weight rapidly, fatty liver, schizophrenic tendencies/ unable to feel joy.

Things got really ugly once we started using a myriad of “pro metabolic” supplements and drinking absurd amounts of orange juice and sugar etc. Our entire existence was consumed by supplements thinking that would heal us. We were each helped dozens of different times for a whopping 2 days at a time from all diff supplements and protocols touted to cure all lol. Always back to square one.

To get the point what we came to realize is the low blood sugar from supplements was the true pit fall. Constantly lowered blood sugar from supplementation. Vicious cycle. No matter the dose. Every supplement when in this fragile state seems to just disrupt homeostasis even further. And while the body was probably always fighting to return to homeostasis, we kept intervening and worsening our health. Every supplement would work at times and not others. No way of gauging what was actually hurting or helping. when the nervous system is so beat, nothing synthetic or isolated, is able to be of use. Even if you are deficient, the body doesn’t know how to process and utilize synthetic supplements when under severe stress.

The body perceives EVERYTHING foreign as a threat. The combo of allergic reactions/histamine issues/ and mostly
LOWERED BLOOD SUGAR did a number on us. You can not use metabolic boosting supplements and drink a quart of freaking orange juice when you have no base. You have to build The base. The base isn’t built w loads of sugar, or supplements. You add those on to a preexisting base. It sets you up for a nice ride on the blood sugar rollercoaster if you’ve got
No base. On top of that the manic behavior from being consumed from freaking pills and potions is another story. Both of us had to give our supplements to our partners to hide. Zero restraint. Embarrassing.

Moral of the story we are absolutely astonished by the progress made in only 3 weeks of dropping supplements cold turkey. Mood stabilized greatly, weight went up, bowels became PERFECT. Eating dense food each meal. Meat, potatoes, rice , eggs, cheese. Little bit of milk and Cheese and seasonal fruit. Not milk and OJ and all day. Been there done that.

We know this isn’t a new idea to not use supps , by some on here, but clearly many are still caught in this loop. To each their own. If supplements help you. Great.. but I simply don’t think you’re going to heal if you’re really messed up by drinking orange juice and sugar all day while snorting methylene blue and aspirin all night with a side of niacimide and some pregneleone. It only further worsened and added chaos to an already chaotic system.

I Just want to reiterate if you’ve been sick for years trying Every damn supplement that was Supposed to cure you overnight… that You have nothing to lose by stopping everything on a dime, and seeing how 3 weeks of that makes you feel.

Curious.. what is causing the low blood sugar issues from supplements when youre ****88 up. It so apparent and some how we just didn’t stop even after years of basically knowing the supplements were tanking blood sugar. Maybe some people don’t get it that ? But boy it’s so apparent after stopping for weeks. I no longer have this feeling of running on “dirty energy”. I just feel so so so much more grounded and stable with ZERO supplements. Maybe it’s person specific, but I just never felt good on any supplement ever , no matter the dose. Even if I needed thst nurtient, when it came in supplement form it just made me feel tweaked out, snd artificially jacked up my craving for sugar.

This is a great thread! I chased my tail around with the supplements too for decades, and finally realized they were actually causing my problems. I hope your story lands on the right people.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

hello,i suggest you to consider a perspective:

you are potentially the one coping,and projecting,are you not the one that got gyno eating 300 grammes of carbs/day while being sedentary?

the notion of earning your carbs is at least partially fraudulent, especially when there are clear examples disproving the absolute necessity of "earning your carbs" through intense exercise to strive for optimal health

Should just listen to Haidut's latest stance, he is now recommending equal macro split, and only advises higher carbs in physically active individuals.
I'm not talkiing about earning carbs, but correlating carb intake with activity level.

View: https://youtu.be/9ZM9sCfmAGc

 

[Birdie]

So the moral of the story is you started eating real nutrious food and improved. Meat, eggs, potatoes, cheese etc. And you stopped going overboard eating massive amounts of them, plus you stopped massive amounts of supplements.

Makes sense to me.

Yes, makes sense and is very Peaty. He'd been saying for quite a while that he couldn't find a safe this supplement and that supplement. He'd recommend foods. Thanks for the reminder !

 

[Sapien]

the notion of earning your carbs is at least partially fraudulent, especially when there are clear examples disproving the absolute necessity of "earning your carbs" through intense exercise to strive for optimal health

+1

Should just listen to Haidut's latest stance, he is now recommending equal macro split

Dude that was in response to Paul’s question about how much carbs should a recovering diabetic eat. I think he still eats about 10% fat and isn’t super active

 

[mgrabs]

So I met someone on this forumn. We connected. And became close with one another. Both of us discussing and trying to get to the bottom of our issues after years of being crippled with mental/physical issues. Both thriving for years prior. A combo of our own choices/ toxicity and some bad luck disabled each of us. Unable to leave our house,MCAS, losing weight rapidly, fatty liver, schizophrenic tendencies/ unable to feel joy.

Things got really ugly once we started using a myriad of “pro metabolic” supplements and drinking absurd amounts of orange juice and sugar etc. Our entire existence was consumed by supplements thinking that would heal us. We were each helped dozens of different times for a whopping 2 days at a time from all diff supplements and protocols touted to cure all lol. Always back to square one.

To get the point what we came to realize is the low blood sugar from supplements was the true pit fall. Constantly lowered blood sugar from supplementation. Vicious cycle. No matter the dose. Every supplement when in this fragile state seems to just disrupt homeostasis even further. And while the body was probably always fighting to return to homeostasis, we kept intervening and worsening our health. Every supplement would work at times and not others. No way of gauging what was actually hurting or helping. when the nervous system is so beat, nothing synthetic or isolated, is able to be of use. Even if you are deficient, the body doesn’t know how to process and utilize synthetic supplements when under severe stress.

The body perceives EVERYTHING foreign as a threat. The combo of allergic reactions/histamine issues/ and mostly
LOWERED BLOOD SUGAR did a number on us. You can not use metabolic boosting supplements and drink a quart of freaking orange juice when you have no base. You have to build The base. The base isn’t built w loads of sugar, or supplements. You add those on to a preexisting base. It sets you up for a nice ride on the blood sugar rollercoaster if you’ve got
No base. On top of that the manic behavior from being consumed from freaking pills and potions is another story. Both of us had to give our supplements to our partners to hide. Zero restraint. Embarrassing.

Moral of the story we are absolutely astonished by the progress made in only 3 weeks of dropping supplements cold turkey. Mood stabilized greatly, weight went up, bowels became PERFECT. Eating dense food each meal. Meat, potatoes, rice , eggs, cheese. Little bit of milk and Cheese and seasonal fruit. Not milk and OJ and all day. Been there done that.

We know this isn’t a new idea to not use supps , by some on here, but clearly many are still caught in this loop. To each their own. If supplements help you. Great.. but I simply don’t think you’re going to heal if you’re really messed up by drinking orange juice and sugar all day while snorting methylene blue and aspirin all night with a side of niacimide and some pregneleone. It only further worsened and added chaos to an already chaotic system.

I Just want to reiterate if you’ve been sick for years trying Every damn supplement that was Supposed to cure you overnight… that You have nothing to lose by stopping everything on a dime, and seeing how 3 weeks of that makes you feel.

Curious.. what is causing the low blood sugar issues from supplements when youre ****88 up. It so apparent and some how we just didn’t stop even after years of basically knowing the supplements were tanking blood sugar. Maybe some people don’t get it that ? But boy it’s so apparent after stopping for weeks. I no longer have this feeling of running on “dirty energy”. I just feel so so so much more grounded and stable with ZERO supplements. Maybe it’s person specific, but I just never felt good on any supplement ever , no matter the dose. Even if I needed thst nurtient, when it came in supplement form it just made me feel tweaked out, snd artificially jacked up my craving for sugar.

Love to hear all of this. I’m realizing I’m starting to destroy myself by “ trying to fix myself” with supplements. One goes up many other levels go down. Im riddled with anxiety because of it. I feel every vitamin or mineral i take. When other people would say “ idk i dont feel it” well i do. Im tired of revolving around vitamins. I look at friends walking the streets of NYC happy as a clam, none of them are reachint for vitamin d, magnesium, etc. those are just my thoughts. How are you feeling recently? Does the body learn to rebalance? I would like to hope my body will level out. I was told i was completely healthy from bloods. But my anxiety and depression skews my stress hormones