"Too Much Verbalisation Can Damage The Brain"

[JamesGatz]

How about handing a shop receipt to a woman with a metal clamp, being afraid to touch it? I imagine there's someone out there who would find that simply irresistible.

Hahaha that's what the women like about me - I am built different I am not like the average Joe Schmo - I am out here in the streets doing what they have never seen before

 

[Old Irenaeus]

Hahaha that's what the women like about me - I am built different I am not like the average Joe Schmo - I am out here in the streets doing what they have never seen before

I'll concede, that is attractive.

 

[Doc Sandoz]

This thread is a perfect example of verbose as opposed to thoughtful in action.

+10

 

[TheSir]

Lol, thanks. I know astrology is generally viewed as pretty dumb but I did read a giant astrology book on Neptune (rules Pisces) when I was a young and foolish 20 year old and the information it revealed about my personality from a very young age was indisputable... from my taste in music and art to my disposition spiritually, socially, politically. It was shocking at the time and really scared me, actually. I concluded it was above my pay grade and decided to focus on other things.

Having studied my birth chart and had it read by a couple of amateur astrologists, I'm inclined to think that there's something to it too. Like you I found it to be a pretty intimidating subject due to its detailed accuracy, and I wasn't sure how to relate to it. Apparently your birth chart has even the day of your death hidden in it.

 

[Drareg]

I'm seeing more 20 year "males" with boobs these days and I can't imagine the underlying hormonal imbalances not playing a role in all this.

It’s so easy to correct, their is no excuse these days, you can get the information with a quick internet search.

 

[Drareg]

This is so true. Empathy and compassion requires visualizing the other person and feeling for them, it is not a literal experience or thoughts. When you truly empathize and try to understand or feel for another persons situation and perspective, your mind is making an image of that person within a context. For instance I got upset my cousin didn’t call me back, it was a verbal run off in my head of why is she the way she is and why doesn’t she call me back. But suddenly I got an image in my head of her having a busy day and being a mom and all the things she must have to do but it was the image of her in a context that gave me this powerful feeling of empathy and realizing it’s not just about me and my desire to speak with her. When you’re in a bad state you can only think about yourself and everything gets filtered through the trap of your perspective.

Well said.

 

[Riesensackteil]

What Peat touches on here is what we are dealing with today en masse, the woke in society are just that, verbose, pathologically, they can’t see images beyond the words, it’s an attention span issue, they see words that have conditioned responses that release dopamine or the opposite adrenaline, both stimulate, they are hooked on this feedback loop, it’s an addiction pathology just like alcoholism or smoking.
Underlying it all is a lack of energetic capacitance, they are stuck until capacitance improves, if not they self destruct.

I once hanged out with a (now distant) friend and we said nothing, the only way we communicated were mimicks. We were chilling and it was very pleasant in a rare way, I cant describe it. At first you feel a bit anxious because no one is talking and you think that you are a vibe killer but he pointed to some things then grinned and I understood what he meant

 

[CiggyTardust]

I once hanged out with a (now distant) friend and we said nothing, the only way we communicated were mimicks. We were chilling and it was very pleasant in a rare way, I cant describe it. At first you feel a bit anxious because no one is talking and you think that you are a vibe killer but he pointed to some things then grinned and I understood what he meant

Reminds me of a strange experience I had with a friend on mushrooms over a decade ago. We lay on the floor, cooing like babies and painting pictures with our vocalizations... I'd paint a picture in the air and he would do the same and we had full-scale dialogues without actually using words. Felt really good and natural. Some might say we were just high but it certainly felt like more than that at the time.

 

[LUH 3417]

Reminds me of a strange experience I had with a friend on mushrooms over a decade ago. We lay on the floor, cooing like babies and painting pictures with our vocalizations... I'd paint a picture in the air and he would do the same and we had full-scale dialogues without actually using words. Felt really good and natural. Some might say we were just high but it certainly felt like more than that at the time.

I had 2 friends that were a couple and told me a similar thing happened to them on lsd.
I think animals communicate in images too, my cat has def sent me picture forms to tell me things.

 

[Drareg]

I once hanged out with a (now distant) friend and we said nothing, the only way we communicated were mimicks. We were chilling and it was very pleasant in a rare way, I cant describe it. At first you feel a bit anxious because no one is talking and you think that you are a vibe killer but he pointed to some things then grinned and I understood what he meant

I get what your saying, most successful couples don’t need excessive talking either, it’s never a sign of a good relationship IMO, marriage counseling seems to encourage them to talk more, express their feelings, the reality is they are expressing concepts of what they believe is a good relationship and how they should act, the relationship becomes an act which is vacuous.
How much conversation do parents have with their newborns for example, it’s minimal, the intuition is far more potent and difficult to express in words.

 

[Green Dot]

Having studied my birth chart and had it read by a couple of amateur astrologists, I'm inclined to think that there's something to it too. Like you I found it to be a pretty intimidating subject due to its detailed accuracy, and I wasn't sure how to relate to it. Apparently your birth chart has even the day of your death hidden in it.

View: https://youtu.be/scBAjvR32u4

 

[Vileplume]

My main takeaway from the below quotations: language and experience are at odds with each other.

---

When asked about the difference between the craftsman and the academic:

I studied edging and dry point printmaking for a while, to experience something of what [Blake] was doing, and I saw that working on a copper plate with a needle and drawing with this very fine point, and making fine lines to build up shapes, after I had been doing it for a few hours, the sparkly colors of the refraction lines in the copper created a sort of iridescent quality, and for hours after I had been working on a plate, I would see that quality in everything I looked at. And Blake described that sort of experience, that you enliven your senses by working on something, and that extends to every new experience you have. You're shaping it yourself while the new stuff is coming in, and the person who works only on the level of knowledge, what the book and the professor say, that builds up a similar set of reflexes in that person, so they go out seeing the world in terms of what the book and the professor have said, so they see the world as talking concepts to them, whereas the craftsman feels the world in a sensory newness, corresponding to how he's ben using his body and mind in working. So he feels the world working back at him, with those same properties that he's been enlivening.

When asked about William Blake's visions, which included seeing angels when Blake was a child:

I think it's that way of thinking, which kids normally have, and it gets trained out of them. You can't use metaphors and imagery too much, if the world around you doesn't like novel perceptions. The body has this capacity to concretize--to different extents--its thoughts, but most people get stuck in the concretizing the thoughts as words, and they start to think of the word as somehow the identity of the concept, and the concept as the identity of what's in the world. And if you see that your body can bring up these concrete images as you think, that gives you a much more fluid attitude toward everything you learn. You see right in front of you your thought process, and the well-trained, well-educated person sees words as their consciousness, and the words tend to carry with them all of the intentions of the educational system, so that's the cage that people build in their minds, that trap their whole being in this world of words and concepts.

-both quotations from RP

View: https://youtu.be/FDYpjrjuQjU

 

[Shackles]

Best thread ever

 

[CiggyTardust]

My main takeaway from the below quotations: language and experience are at odds with each other.

---

When asked about the difference between the craftsman and the academic:

I studied edging and dry point printmaking for a while, to experience something of what [Blake] was doing, and I saw that working on a copper plate with a needle and drawing with this very fine point, and making fine lines to build up shapes, after I had been doing it for a few hours, the sparkly colors of the refraction lines in the copper created a sort of iridescent quality, and for hours after I had been working on a plate, I would see that quality in everything I looked at. And Blake described that sort of experience, that you enliven your senses by working on something, and that extends to every new experience you have. You're shaping it yourself while the new stuff is coming in, and the person who works only on the level of knowledge, what the book and the professor say, that builds up a similar set of reflexes in that person, so they go out seeing the world in terms of what the book and the professor have said, so they see the world as talking concepts to them, whereas the craftsman feels the world in a sensory newness, corresponding to how he's ben using his body and mind in working. So he feels the world working back at him, with those same properties that he's been enlivening.

When asked about William Blake's visions, which included seeing angels when Blake was a child:

I think it's that way of thinking, which kids normally have, and it gets trained out of them. You can't use metaphors and imagery too much, if the world around you doesn't like novel perceptions. The body has this capacity to concretize--to different extents--its thoughts, but most people get stuck in the concretizing the thoughts as words, and they start to think of the word as somehow the identity of the concept, and the concept as the identity of what's in the world. And if you see that your body can bring up these concrete images as you think, that gives you a much more fluid attitude toward everything you learn. You see right in front of you your thought process, and the well-trained, well-educated person sees words as their consciousness, and the words tend to carry with them all of the intentions of the educational system, so that's the cage that people build in their minds, that trap their whole being in this world of words and concepts.

-both quotations from RP

View: https://youtu.be/FDYpjrjuQjU

Absolutely brilliant observations. This exact same dynamic was revealed to me through extensive use of psychedelics... in just a couple hours, a sufficient dose of LSD or Psilocybin will demolish the word/thought structures that you mistake for reality. I process everything verbally and went into that season of experimentation pretty arrogant in my understanding of the world (being an adolescent had something to do with it too). It was extremely shocking to discover that all my words, all my reasoning, all my ideals, were just towers of words plastered over the incomprehensible complexity of reality... I concluded that hue and color were more real than line or distinction and words could never capture the reality of things--all they do is point. Everything blended together into chaos for a couple years. I did eventually re-construct my self and thoughts about the world but it took probably 5-7 years to regain stability. It was this tremendous destabilizing effect that caused me to stop using psychedelics altogether and if you're reading this, I am not advocating their use.

What's amazing to me is that people might come to these conclusions without the use of psychedelics. Not sure if Ray ever experimented but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

 

[Doc Sandoz]

Absolutely brilliant observations. This exact same dynamic was revealed to me through extensive use of psychedelics... in just a couple hours, a sufficient dose of LSD or Psilocybin will demolish the word/thought structures that you mistake for reality. I process everything verbally and went into that season of experimentation pretty arrogant in my understanding of the world (being an adolescent had something to do with it too). It was extremely shocking to discover that all my words, all my reasoning, all my ideals, were just towers of words plastered over the incomprehensible complexity of reality... I concluded that hue and color were more real than line or distinction and words could never capture the reality of things--all they do is point. Everything blended together into chaos for a couple years. I did eventually re-construct my self and thoughts about the world but it took probably 5-7 years to regain stability. It was this tremendous destabilizing effect that caused me to stop using psychedelics altogether and if you're reading this, I am not advocating their use.

What's amazing to me is that people might come to these conclusions without the use of psychedelics. Not sure if Ray ever experimented but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Exactly what happened to me with one overwhelming dose of 500 mcg LSD. The mechanical surety of language structuring the world in the most limiting and focused sense of immediate competition for survival whilst all other facets of reality are filtered out was lifted and the unimaginable complexity, beauty and mystery, together with the awe and terror, of reality came into awareness. Changed my psychology and world view radically. Gone was the arrogance of believing because I think this is so it is true, so characteristic of the hubris of adolescence.

Difference is I do advocate the use of psychedelics, but only under responsible conditions: set and setting must be conducive, and a trusted someone who's been there needs to be in attendance for the full duration of the experience. Notwithstanding the fact the substance is no panacea and can run people off the rails if they are predisposed, I think in general the more people that have the experience the better off the world will be.

 

[CiggyTardust]

Difference is I do advocate the use of psychedelics, but only under responsible conditions: set and setting must be conducive, and a trusted someone who's been there needs to be in attendance for the full duration of the experience. Notwithstanding the fact the substance is no panacea and can run people off the rails if they are predisposed, I think in general the more people that have the experience the better off the world will be.

Considering your username, I am not surprised you are an advocate

I understand your position and shared it for a good long while. I won't say the substances are inherently bad because I don't think that's true and I'm not here to moralize. Instead I have long held suspicions, informed by my spiritual beliefs, that opening such doors can leave one vulnerable to destructive influences... I speak from firsthand experience.

 

[Jib]

I definitely agree with the idea that over-verbalization can damage the brain. Or put another way, allows other parts of the brain to atrophy.

As both a musician and a luthier and amateur photographer/videographer, I've found tremendous value in playing music, woodworking, filming, etc. and spending many hours in complete silence while working on projects. Jamming onstage with people is such a perfect example. It's all spontaneous energy exchange. One of the rewards of playing guitar is having that ability to non-verbally express yourself. And the same goes for any kind of craft as your mastery grows: you gain the ability to truly express yourself non-verbally.

In this society, we're conditioned to disconnect from our intuition and instincts. This society is over-verbalized. Would explain a lot of the apparent brain damage you see everywhere, and likely in your own self as well. We're all subjected to this. Awareness is the first step. Agreed with Ray. There's a reason Zappa said "shut up and play yer guitar"

From what I understand of Native Americans, they were big on silence, only talking when it was actually necessary. I don't know how true that is, but I wouldn't be surprised in the context of people living natural lives. Over-verbalization does not seem natural.

 

[CiggyTardust]

From what I understand of Native Americans, they were big on silence, only talking when it was actually necessary. I don't know how true that is, but I wouldn't be surprised in the context of people living natural lives. Over-verbalization does not seem natural.

I am reminded of one of my favorite quotes from Fr. Keating: "Silence is God's first language; everything else is a poor translation."

 

[Doc Sandoz]

Considering your username, I am not surprised you are an advocate

I understand your position and shared it for a good long while. I won't say the substances are inherently bad because I don't think that's true and I'm not here to moralize. Instead I have long held suspicions, informed by my spiritual beliefs, that opening such doors can leave one vulnerable to destructive influences... I speak from firsthand experience.

True, it is not without risk. One destructive result that I noticed among certain people was, once they had come down and returned to consensus reality which was no longer adequate or meaningful, there is a depressive sense of being lost in a lost world. Many if not all of what formerly motivated the person now seems pointless and silly, even bizarre. This wandering in the wilderness is in itself a natural reaction that will usually pass with time if one applies oneself to the task of honoring and integrating the experience with everyday mundane reality (which may take several years); carrying water and chopping wood as they say, essentially nonverbal activities. However, often that forlorn state of mind results in attachment to a "guru" who is thought to have the answers, but who may very well not have the person's best interests at heart while nevertheless giving an illusory sense of meaning and security as someone who "knows." That can lead down a very dark road indeed.

 

[Kayaker]

True, it is not without risk. One destructive result that I noticed among certain people was, once they had come down and returned to consensus reality which was no longer adequate or meaningful, there is a depressive sense of being lost in a lost world. Many if not all of what formerly motivated the person now seems pointless and silly, even bizarre. This wandering in the wilderness is in itself a natural reaction that will usually pass with time if one applies oneself to the task of honoring and integrating the experience with everyday mundane reality (which may take several years); carrying water and chopping wood as they say, essentially nonverbal activities. However, often that forlorn state of mind results in attachment to a "guru" who is thought to have the answers, but who may very well not have the person's best interests at heart while nevertheless giving an illusory sense of meaning and security as someone who "knows." That can lead down a very dark road indeed.

I think everyone should awaken, no matter what the result. To live with closed eyes is subhuman and mechanical, and squander's God's gift to us.