TOOTHPASTE: FLUORIDATED OR NOT (POLL)

[Logan-]

What do you use?

 

[Logan-]

Hydroxyapatite instead of fluoride

This.
I had some teeth going transparent at the edges as well and they are completely mineralized again. Been using it for years now. Get a toothpaste with hydroxyapatite.

How are you supposed to have healthy teeth without fluoride?

If you never use fluoride, how can you protect against acid attacts and demineralization over time? I haven't used toothpaste in like 15 years and i've noticed the edges of my teeth are starting to look "transparent", as if it lacks volume and you can see throught it on the edges. No cavities...

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[Logan-]

 

[Logan-]

Can Someone Explain Why Fluoride Is Bad?

Is it really one of the most toxic and least beneficial mineral we are being exposed to? My general knowledge is that fluoride is bad, but I don't actually know why it's bad. - On a scale of 0-10, how much harmful is it? - Bones have fluoride. I can't understand why extra fluoride harms the...

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[Logan-]

Vitamin C is good for gums. Vitamin K2, vitamin D, calcium carbonate, magnesium, salt, thyroid, rinsing right after eating or drinking sugary drinks. These are important for oral health. Don’t drink carbonated beverages. Don’t smoke.

Also tongue posture, mewing, breathing right.

Does Mewing (Orthotropics) Work?

https://orthotropics.com/ What do you think?

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[Logan-]

Oil pulling, tongue scraping, drinking acidic liquids through a straw, tooth brushing with non fluoridated toothpaste, get plenty of minerals, and especially get plenty of fat soluble vitamins (D and K mainly for teeth)

 

[Logan-]

Teeth and Gums​

[Bleeding gums] It's usually a sign of stress, often from over-growth of bacteria in the upper intestine. A daily raw carrot, shredded with a little vinegar and olive oil, can suppress bacteria.

[Receding gums and sensitive teeth] Melting a little coconut oil in the mouth frequently during the day can be effective, because it's antiseptic (and swallowing some at intervals during the day contributes to disinfecting the intestine). Vitamins D and K help some people. The problem usually involves endotoxin absorption, so small daily amounts of minocycline help some people. Putting bamboo shoots through a shredding food processor, so they don't take much chewing, might help to reduce endotoxin. Checking the thyroid is important.

[Dental health] Stress weakens teeth from the inside, drawing mineral from the dentine; the dentine is the part that can regenerate, not the enamel. Thyroid function is the most important thing for limiting stress.

Stress typically causes calcium to be removed from the small channels in the dentine, and it tends to be unequal, resulting in spots of discoloration in some teeth, that can develop into cavities. Thyroid is the most important antistress hormone as well as influencing the saliva and immunity.

Intestinal inflammation is often behind recurrent tooth infections, and a daily raw carrot can make a big difference (along with avoiding legumes, undercooked starches and raw or undercooked vegetables).

I use baking soda, and I rinse my mouth after having sugar, orange juice, etc. The quality of the saliva, regulated mainly by the thyroid hormone, is the main factor in dental health. My newsletter on osteoporosis mentioned some of the studies on thyroid, estrogen, and tooth decay.

[Tongue, teeth, gum problems] There are some strong nervous and circulatory interactions between the intestine and the mouth, affecting surfaces and periodontal health, tooth sensitivity, etc. I knew a dentist who stopped doing periodontal surgery when he found that his patients were more easily cured with a laxative. Camphoric acid has been used as an intestinal disinfectant to remedy problems such as coated or sore tongue or bad breath. The tetracyclines have similar effects. Vitamins D and K are important.

[Question about regenerating teeth with light] Light can apparently activate part of the process; combining it with pressure and electrical and hormonal stimulation might increase the efficiency of regenerating dentine. [using a laser?] Just bright red light should do it.

[Effective stimulation?] Chewing is the best stimulation.

[Gingivitis] Besides keeping phosphates low, getting a lot of vitamin K, and maybe rubbing some onto the gums, might help; it's antiinflammatory. Some people have reverse gingivitis by "rinsing" with coconut oil twice a day, swishing it around for a couple of minutes.

[Removing wisdom tooth] If it's decayed or inflamed, removing a wisdom tooth might be protective.

[Carrageenan in toothpaste] No, it isn't likely to be a problem unless you are very sensitive to it.

[Root canals] There's normally no need to replace root canals, and x-rays aren't necessary even when having a root canal done if the dentist is very competent. The Japanese are probably more aware than Americans of the damage done by diagnositic x-rays. Systemic toxic effects have been demonstrated from a single set of dental x-rays (Reference)

[Mercury leaching from root canals continuously and replacing it with a metal / mercury-free alternative?] It depends on what the filling material was (my dentist used calcium oxide), but the amount absorbed from amalgam fillings and food is probably much more significant."

[What is the best course of action for a decayed tooth?] I think any obvious cavity should be cleaned out and filled. Extractions are usually done for economic reasons, when a good repair would require a lot of work. When a biting surface isn’t involved, a zinc oxide eugenol filling (temporary) is often good for a few years. I think composite fillings are better than amalgam, and the Sorel cements (oxy chloride) are ideal filling materials, though they aren’t popular with dentists.

[Drilling and filling cavities and root canals] I think filling a cavity soon is best, and with care the pulp can often be preserved, but a root filling is better than extraction; the material used for a root filling doesn't matter much, if calcium oxide is used at the end. Calcium oxide would be best for the whole thing, but the x-ray mania has discouraged that use.

[Milk teeth] I don’t think anesthesia should be combined with cyproheptadine, but I think dentists are too aggressive in treating deciduous teeth; the important thing is to improve her digestion and hormones as her permanent teeth are developing. The so-called temporary fillings, made of zinc oxide and eugenol, are very easy to put in, and are antiseptic and mildly anesthetic topically. (I had them in wisdom teeth, and they lasted for years.) X-rays, anesthesia, and drilling into invisible cavities have their place in especially problematic adult teeth, but seem inappropriate for teeth that will soon be gone.

[Dental x-rays] Fun quotes

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

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[Logan-]

Another poll:

Is it ever possible to 100% reverse a cavity?

Hey all! So after going to the dentist i’ve found out i need three fillings for cavities (These cavities are all giving me pain) The dentist is happy to use my preferred filling choice which is Admira Fusion, which from my research and speaking with many holistic dentists it is the best option...

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[Jennifer]

What do you use?

I make my own from white kaolin clay, baking soda, microcrystalline hydroxyapatite, coconut oil, and peppermint and Ceylon cinnamon essential oils. In case you’re interested, I talked about why I use some of the ingredients I do here:

The best possible toothpaste

After getting some cavities in the last few months i’ve really decided to get really strict with my dental regime. I’ve got some strong habits in place now but the only thing i think i’m lagging with is my toothpaste, this one: Georganics | Kids Natural Mineral-rich Toothpaste | Orange Now I...

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[Logan-]

I make my own from white kaolin clay, baking soda, microcrystalline hydroxyapatite, coconut oil, and peppermint and Ceylon cinnamon essential oils. In case you’re interested, I talked about why I use some of the ingredients I do here:

The best possible toothpaste

After getting some cavities in the last few months i’ve really decided to get really strict with my dental regime. I’ve got some strong habits in place now but the only thing i think i’m lagging with is my toothpaste, this one: Georganics | Kids Natural Mineral-rich Toothpaste | Orange Now I...

raypeatforum.com

That’s interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[BobbyJackson]

I went to a very expensive, very highly respected dentistry practice in Switzerland that a lot of rich people use, with my wife (mainly for my wife to get some major fixes done that no other dentist could seem to solve). My wife begged me to get a checkup with them while we were there, since I had not been to a dentist in a very long time, around 14 years. I did, begrudgingly.

They came back with a perfect bill of health. They literally said that there isn't much else I should be doing because whatever I'm doing is working. I told them what I do, I brush once per day at night before bed, with fluoride free toothpaste with activated charcoal. I don't use mouthwash and I don't floss. They were like yeah, that's great. They said I could brush more but it's not actually necessary to brush more once than per 24 hours anyways. Also they warned me that I should get my wisdom teeth taken out, since they never sprouted. They could be causing inflammation under the gums, but they said that based on the scans they did of me, that it was not the case - yet. But it may be some day.

Activated charcoal is pretty great in toothpaste, it's the right abrasiveness to scrub off anything bad but not damage the enamel. You don't want to nuke your mouth with mouthwash or anything else super strong. Xylitol in your toothpaste is great, coconut oil as well, hydroxyapatite as some people mentioned. If you have some bleeding when brushing, you should always brush more in that area, don't be afraid of the blood, it's bad that you got some blood but now you should really focus on brushing that area to really clean it out.

That's all I gotta say. I'm 31 and have no filings, have all my teeth and they're in great shape.

 

[Logan-]

I went to a very expensive, very highly respected dentistry practice in Switzerland that a lot of rich people use, with my wife (mainly for my wife to get some major fixes done that no other dentist could seem to solve). My wife begged me to get a checkup with them while we were there, since I had not been to a dentist in a very long time, around 14 years. I did, begrudgingly.

They came back with a perfect bill of health. They literally said that there isn't much else I should be doing because whatever I'm doing is working. I told them what I do, I brush once per day at night before bed, with fluoride free toothpaste with activated charcoal. I don't use mouthwash and I don't floss. They were like yeah, that's great. They said I could brush more but it's not actually necessary to brush more once than per 24 hours anyways. Also they warned me that I should get my wisdom teeth taken out, since they never sprouted. They could be causing inflammation under the gums, but they said that based on the scans they did of me, that it was not the case - yet. But it may be some day.

Activated charcoal is pretty great in toothpaste, it's the right abrasiveness to scrub off anything bad but not damage the enamel. You don't want to nuke your mouth with mouthwash or anything else super strong. Xylitol in your toothpaste is great, coconut oil as well, hydroxyapatite as some people mentioned. If you have some bleeding when brushing, you should always brush more in that area, don't be afraid of the blood, it's bad that you got some blood but now you should really focus on brushing that area to really clean it out.

That's all I gotta say. I'm 31 and have no filings, have all my teeth and they're in great shape.

I agree with everything you wrote; the only warning I could give is, be careful with wisdom teeth removal. I had 4 of them removed, due to the same reason, although only one of them looked really problematic in the scans, and if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn’t have all four of them removed right away, or at least get a second, third opinion. The other three didn’t look like they were going to create problems in the near future, although that was a probable outcome.

The removal is a very stressful procedure, the same is true for the days after; and it may affect the way your teeth are aligned.

 

[Logan-]

Brushing your teeth "right away" after consuming acidic foods may be part of the issue. The acid makes the dental material soft - brushing immediately will brush away the material before it has a chance to harden and remineralise.

I've written a post about bone-protective practices before (which should also work for teeth), I'll link it for you.

EDIT Need Help. Tooth Decay. Yellow Teeth White Spots

Taping mouth at night if you mouth breathe when sleeping. Keeping your mouth closed is the most important thing for enamel renewal.

Most remineralizarion happens during sleep and saliva is the vehicle that remineralizes the enamel. It can't do its job when you are mouth breathing and experiencing dry mouth.

I make a rinse with xylitol and water, also sometimes a little baking soda. I rinse my mouth with it after acidic foods, including sour candy, fruit, cola/soda or juice. Also i try to sip orange juice using a straw so it doesn't get on my teeth. They also have mints that are basically compressed xylitol - if i am out i just chew one up and swish it around in my mouth after acid food. I suppose some chewing gums could also help. In terms of remineralizing toothpaste formulas, people on the forum have mentioned recaldent and novamin - see this thread. I also heard somewhere on the web that glycerin(often found in toothpaste) blocks the tooth's ability to absorb nutrients - i have no idea if it's true.

@A. squamosa
FYI, check out the discussion of remineralizing toothpaste, specifically the bioglass kind, in this thread. @tara also links to a review about it.

xylitol is pretty impressive. just dissolve a few teaspoons in small amount of water and keep it in your mouth for as long as possible. i usually do about 20 minutes.

I’ve been using it too but started adding some baking soda. Teeth feel clean

i worked on my enamel all of 2018 and now they are like double the thickness . what did i do? a2 milk, and cheese, heavy vit D/K supplementation and clay toothpaste. i had to quit oj because of the cold sore madness that was my face. i take a c gummie now- rose hips and gelatin. also ...... i really think that all the hydrolyzed gelatin that i add to milk has helped as well. my teeth went from super weak and flimsy to strong horse teeth but it took me like 3 months at least. also if you can stand drinking/eating food grade clay or some kind , it helps too.

Restoring Tooth Enamel

Anybody have any advice regarding restoring tooth enamel? Although I love OJ, I cannot tolerate it or any other acidic food unless I brush my teeth right away with some Tom's Enamel Protecting Tooth paste. Even then I still get some nerve pain. My teeth are not in great shape, they are...

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[lvysaur]

I use fluoridated toothpaste, because fluoride is useful topically, and I also brush rarely (few times a week) so the amount isn't an issue. I also use a pin sized drop of paste, not the huge battery-sized drop illustrated on the box.

I naturally have really great teeth, which might be related to my low preference for sugar and especially acid

 

[Logan-]

I use fluoridated toothpaste, because fluoride is useful topically, and I also brush rarely (few times a week) so the amount isn't an issue. I also use a pin sized drop of paste, not the huge battery-sized drop illustrated on the box.

I naturally have really great teeth, which might be related to my low preference for sugar and especially acid

Thanks for sharing, I know some members of this forum use fluoridated toothpaste, and I want to learn their perspective. I think I have read somewhere Ray himself wasn’t too opposed to using fluoridated toothpaste sometimes, to harden the teeth.

 

[lvysaur]

Thanks for sharing, I know some members of this forum use fluoridated toothpaste, and I want to learn their perspective. I think I have read somewhere Ray himself wasn’t too opposed to using fluoridated toothpaste sometimes, to harden the teeth.

I think the more important thing is being in a state where you don't crave sugar and especially acid. I think I could probably completely stop brushing my teeth and be fine. But the cost to brush is so little that there's no point

 

[Logan-]

well, i will venture a remedy that is not entirely peaty but it helped me. I eat semi-peaty avoid pufas, etc..and supplement wiht d, a, calcium eggshell, k2, t3 I was experiencing all of the signs of cavities (aching teeth, jaw, inflamed gums,e tc..) for about 3-4 months and I decided to try high dose vit c (ascorbic acid-no fillers from Trder Joes). I did this for about 1 month-I even tried "liposomal" for about a week. ALL signs mentioned above went away. That was 2 months ago. I went in for a check up with my dentist 2 weeks ago-no issues at ALL. That is unusual for me-they usually put a "watch" on at least one tooth. (no xrays) I only took the vitc for a month-still no probs a month later. So could be used short term for greater benefit? My insane cravings for juice (oj usually) also decreased to almost nothing.
Good luck-dental problems suck on a grand scale.

Remineralizing Teeth/reversing Erosion?

Does anyone have experience with remineralizing their teeth and/or reversing acid erosion? Within the past few months I have noticed substantial transclucency and yellowing of my teeth (I have a porcelain crown on one of my front teeth, and the difference between my crown and normal teeth is...

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Vitamin C is very important.

 

[Logan-]

Some quotes from this topic that are worth noting: Remineralizing Teeth/reversing Erosion?

This isn't a Peat thing (more of a band-aid), but I've had good luck over the years doing frequent xylitol powder rinses to raise the PH in my mouth and kill the plaque bacteria.

I think xylitol alone slowed/stopped my erosion problems, and then something about starting a Peat-ey diet plus periodic calcium sodium phosphosilicate (remineralizing) toothpaste applications helped remineralize my teeth.

Dan, what toothpaste did you use? Sensodyne Repair and Protect?

I use Burt's Bees Flouride-Free Multicare (just applying it to my teeth every few days, using baking soda as my normal toothpaste), but it's since been reformulated without the calcium sodium phosphosilicate. It seems to be disappearing from all the other brands as well. I have a theory that the patent holders are intentionally making it too expensive for regular toothpastes to use, focusing on the more lucrative dentist-only products.

So yeah, I'd probably use Sensodyne Repair and Protect if I was buying now (the non-US version, the US version doesn't have the calcium sodium phosphosilicate).

I've also heard of "Recaldent" for remineralization, though I don't know much about it. It doesn't appear to be available in the US either, except in chewing gum.

There's some beginning explanation of the politics here:
http://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/ ... 45s5-glass

Hmm, it looks like you can also get a Recaldent toothpaste in the US if you have a prescription, I imagine it wouldn't be hard to convince a dentist to give you one:
Search Results - HealthWarehouse.com

Really expensive though.

Canada sells it @ Well.ca. NovaMin is the ingredient that is not in the US version. Is that correct?


http://well.ca/products/sensodyne-repai ... 75102.html

Yep, correct.

I've had good results with Dr Ellie's system, explained here. I even had some measurable improvement with mild receding gums. That regimen includes zylitol rinse, too.

Calcium to phosphorus balance is important, I think, to keep parathyroid hormone from rising. Equal or less phosphorous than calcium is RP's recommendation. Coke uses phosphoric acid, may be a hidden source of phosphorous.

Dr Weston Price reported cavities healing themselves with proper nutrition. If I had a small cavity I wouldn't think of getting it filled without trying nutrition first. :2cents

My teeth got sensitive after Peating and drinking juice. I got Sensodyne from the UK after reading Dan's and others' experience with it. I've been using the UK Sensodyne for about a month now, and my teeth are no longer sensitive. I also got the xylitol, but harder to remember mouthwashes during the working day...too many supps and foods to remember already.

Another thing one might try is chewing gum to increase saliva production and duration. One could even swish their own saliva around in their mouth maybe every so often to coat the teeth. After all that's how natural remineralization occurs to teeth is via good quality saliva. :2cents

Edit: So focus on improving quality/quantity of saliva and you won't have to worry nearly as much about what to brush/rinse with and how many times a day.

I just found this topic...it seems teeth are extremely hard to re mineralize, clean because they aren't vascularized to the tips. The best bet is actually from outside, in...you need to have a lot of saliva always sitting on your teeth, and the saliva has to be abundant in alkaline minerals. The best way is to drink milk, and swish it a lot as you drink it, and don't brush your teeth for a while...its proteins and minerals are actually the only things already preformed that can rebuild teeth from the outside in, that im aware of

that's really interesting and quite fascinating actually that theobromine can help, I don't even know the mechanism...but I do consume a lot of cocoa in milk, and I think that has helped remove stains from previous offenses in the past years...but im almost certain its mostly the milk. Also cocoa itself has some tannins that can stain

A huge key is to avoid anything acidic, even fruits and yogurt...your diet will become more limited, but the acids are so harsh they really stunt any kind of remineralization effort

Totally agree, pboy, I think the majority of my dental health improvements have come from managing oral PH, not from "fancy" things like the remineralizing toothpaste / glycine.

Filip1993, I use the glycine from the first link gummybear posted. I think most people are using regular glycine, I don't know anything about the DMG form.

Milk. Ray Peat says it has compounds that prevent bacteria from sticking to teeth. Also, the calcium literally helps remineralize.

Also, healthy saliva naturally contains lots of minerals, for just the purpose of remineralizing. As stated above if you have low thyroid and/or high estrogen/serotonin, etc., your saliva production is probably suppressed. Getting your health under control will increase the mineral content of your saliva, and your teeth will naturally mineralize. (I am lucky to have no had a significant problem with this, but I did experience some serious gum recession, which completely healed after Peating).

Try bentonite clay. It's fantastic.

Co2 is the main component in dental health. Thyroid increase co2 and that increases the utilization of the fat soluble vitamins.

I ordered 25 lbs worth of bentonite clay. It didn't really specify, but I believe it was sodium. You dip your toothbrush in the bag and apply and let the dry clay mix with your saliva so that it turns into a paste. It'll whiten your teeth and remove any sensitivity.

any idea of heavy metal content?

It doesn't seem to be an issue. It likely has something to do with the crystalline structure of the clay, which prevents it from reacting with other elements within the body.

Still, I wouldn't eat it.

I've been using Earth Paste. It has redmond clay, salt, xylitol, tea tree oil, essential oil. No glycerin which is supposed to help your teeth remineralize. No fluoride. It texture takes some getting used to because it can fall off the toothbrush, and it doesn't wash down the sink as easy. I like it OK, but won't be going to the dentist for another couple months so it will be a while before I know what they say about my teeth health.

Would zylitol gum work for this instead of the rinse?

Yeah, I think so. I use xylitol mints when I'm on-the-go. I just prefer rinses when available because you avoid swallowing the xylitol.

Ok, why do you want to avoid swallowing it?

I seem to have gut problems with sugar alcohols. And I think I vaguely remember some studies on how it alters the gut microbiome, though I think there might've been both positive and negative results.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Sensodyne also worked for me for tooth sensitivity.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I agree with everything you wrote; the only warning I could give is, be careful with wisdom teeth removal. I had 4 of them removed, due to the same reason, although only one of them looked really problematic in the scans, and if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn’t have all four of them removed right away, or at least get a second, third opinion. The other three didn’t look like they were going to create problems in the near future, although that was a probable outcome.

The removal is a very stressful procedure, the same is true for the days after; and it may affect the way your teeth are aligned.

I am sixty and have all five of my wisdom teeth, and have no issues. Two times I had tooth pain in my wisdom teeth decades ago, and I treated myself for sinus trouble and the pain went away.