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He was I think going from the perspective of hypo and his response to the interviewer saying what’s the ballpark of female caloric intake....Ray said ballpark 2,000...and then he said you can be very sedentary and burn 3,000...and then he said something about 1,700...and then he said something about a female existing on 700 and gaining weight..(which I painfully did). So there’s a range. I don’t think at all we should shoot for 2,000. I think he was responding from a messed up metabolism’s view. I see it as saying we are all different organisms, there’s way too many variables that go into it. I would waste away on 2,000KMUD 12-16-16 Food
I take your point. Ray was asked how many calories we should eat, and he used the example of a sedentary female, saying about 2000. Then, he made the observation about taking into account metabolism. I'll clarify my view. The edinstitute has a set of guidelines for maintaining baseline metabolism. It is not 2000 for anyone. For women in a normal height range, it is 3000 calories as an absolute minimum every day of your life. It will be even more, if you are a mother of young children or carry weight over normal BMI (because fat is metabolically active). Eating well above this baseline is necessary if you want to move at all, stay healthy and have a normal metabolism. Of course, as Ray commented, it is possible for people to suppress their metabolism so much through calorie restriction (diet alone, or diet/exercise combo) that they can gain weight on 700 or 800 calories. The only way to come out of this metabolically suppressed state is to increase calorie consumption consistently every day without fail. After calorie restriction (starvation), your body will store the newly available excess calories for several months to protect against any return of the "famine". After that, the body will gradually release the fat stores on It's own schedule through a combination of oxidation and detox. Having returned to a normal metabolism, this person can now eat any amount of calories their body desires without gaining weight, provided it is consistently unrestricted daily. This is what happened to me. This is why I say I disagree with saying anyone should eat 2000 calories. It will keep a person in a metabolically suppressed state. The thyroid and every other organ or gland is recoverable with enough calories. Repair will happen with abundant calories.It’s like Freud, and his take on women. I would imagine he had some pretty messed up rich women sitting on his couch. Possibly the scope of Peat is biased because our “people” are so walking off a cliff. If we had an abundance of healthy people he might have had a different answer. I think for a healthy active person, female would be 2,600-3,200 and male would be 3,500 to 4,000, my guess. Plus the macro ratio would completely alter any calories: and slow-burners, oxidizers, etc. Not talking about bodybuilders. I’ve read that females take in give or take 5,000 cals to maintain their muscle.
enjoThe only way to come out of this metabolically suppressed state is to increase calorie consumption consistently every day without fail. After calorie restriction (starvation), your body will store the newly available excess calories for several months to protect against any return of the "famine". After that, the body will gradually release the fat stores on It's own schedule through a combination of oxidation and detox. Having returned to a normal metabolism, this person can now eat any amount of calories their body desires without gaining weight, provided it is consistently unrestricted daily. This is what happened to me. This is why I say I disagree with saying anyone should eat 2000 calories. It will keep a person in a metabolically suppressed state. The thyroid and every other organ or gland is recoverable with enough calories. Repair will happen with abundant calories.
I think Peats work is very heavily biased towards female health and that many principles do not necessarily apply to males, depending on what you want to achieve. Frequent small meals emphasizing sugar and dairy and as little stress as possible is a lifestyle women tend to naturally gravitate to. Men on the other hand naturally gravitate towards infrequent large meals empasizing starch, meat and alcohol, and require some stress (both mental/physical) in their life lest they become soft. Men very clearly tend to gravitate towards a lifestyle that results in higher oxidative stress (less fruits/veggies, more meat, more alcohol, more physical stress) and greater reliance on fat burning for a big part of the day, and there may also be a gender difference in how we respond to that. The male physiology may in itself be less compatible with the modern western notion of health since men have shorter life expectancy and have far greater incidence of cardiovascular disease at comparable ages. Example is how western health researchers point out that the classic male "apple"-shaped fat distribution is associated with worse health, and advise that men should rather strive to attain a pear-shaped figure.
This is also reflected in our different standards for what is appealing in men and women. In women, youth is valued above all and Peats lifestyle recommendations are chiefly based on trying to maintain a youthful metabolism for as long as possible. In men however, maturity is more valued than youth, and men may gravitate towards a lifestyle that leads to accelerated aging simply because physiological maturity is part of our classic ideal of masculinity.
The only way to get past fat storage forever is to never restrict calories by diet, exercise, or a combination of the two. After restriction, the body will protect itself for a time by fat storage. Persisting through that period will allow one to arrive at the fat loss part of the process. This usually is the eight month mark and beyond, when you lose weight, instead of gain. Everyone is different, though. That is why the next recommendation is so important. Follow your body's desire for what to eat and drink (including water), when to eat and drink, and how much to eat and drink. Don't use any rules you've been following in the past. It is not your intellect that knows what your body needs, but your body that knows. This will answer Collden's point in this thread. If men and women do have different needs, a man's body will lead him to feed himself differently than a woman's will. Anything else is guesswork. The only reason to aquaint yourself with the minimum calorie baseline for gender and size via edinstitute is to break oneself of the notion that 1200, 1500, 2000 or any such number of calories is going to build or maintain a healthy body. Maybe we've never experienced allowing ourselves to eat the number of calories that will maintain a healthy body. Maybe we need to rewire our brain to accept that that amount of food is healthy and will not hurt, but rather help us. Having said that, though, the following of our bodies desire for food is the way to go, even in the amount of food. If you have been following low carb, though, you won't be very hungry for a while and must persist with consistent carb eating to gain normal hunger signals. That is because your body is in a fat burning metabolism and is catabolic, turning your tissue into glucose. It is feeding itself in a cannibalistic way. If you persist with carbs on demand, your body will switch to carb burning and you will begin to experience regular hunger signals. It is the thought of food and wanting to eat that is a hunger signal. Stomach growling and shakiness is letting it go too far. You will gain weight in this process. Your body is protecting you. It is temporary. Trust it. Buy a pair of sweat pants, make yourself comfortable and ride it out. Marvel at the way your body can recover.I'm currently cutting, but would appreciate suggestions to minimize fat gain after this cut. I used to eat about 4,000 calories or close to that, but I think I should have kept fat lower, and I think even on no fat, I may have gained some weight.
Thanks for helping.The only way to get past fat storage forever is to never restrict calories by diet, exercise, or a combination of the two. After restriction, the body will protect itself for a time by fat storage. Persisting through that period will allow one to arrive at the fat loss part of the process. This usually is the eight month mark and beyond, when you lose weight, instead of gain. Everyone is different, though. That is why the next recommendation is so important. Follow your body's desire for what to eat and drink (including water), when to eat and drink, and how much to eat and drink. Don't use any rules you've been following in the past. It is not your intellect that knows what your body needs, but your body that knows. This will answer Collden's point in this thread. If men and women do have different needs, a man's body will lead him to feed himself differently than a woman's will. Anything else is guesswork. The only reason to aquaint yourself with the minimum calorie baseline for gender and size via edinstitute is to break oneself of the notion that 1200, 1500, 2000 or any such number of calories is going to build or maintain a healthy body. Maybe we've never experienced allowing ourselves to eat the number of calories that will maintain a healthy body. Maybe we need to rewire our brain to accept that that amount of food is healthy and will not hurt, but rather help us. Having said that, though, the following of our bodies desire for food is the way to go, even in the amount of food. If you have been following low carb, though, you won't be very hungry for a while and must persist with consistent carb eating to gain normal hunger signals. That is because your body is in a fat burning metabolism and is catabolic, turning your tissue into glucose. It is feeding itself in a cannibalistic way. If you persist with carbs on demand, your body will switch to carb burning and you will begin to experience regular hunger signals. It is the thought of food and wanting to eat that is a hunger signal. Stomach growling and shakiness is letting it go too far. You will gain weight in this process. Your body is protecting you. It is temporary. Trust it. Buy a pair of sweat pants, make yourself comfortable and ride it out. Marvel at the way your body can recover.
I am interested in this, could you start a new thread? Although I am mainly interested in the woman side of things. I have been on progest-e for over 4 years and feel like it's not doing all the things I thought it would. I feel better when estrogen starts rising now, like I get some more kick in my step, mood is better, appetite is better, motivation is better then after the two weeks on progest-e I'm weepy, I have hot flashes, I have literally no energy, I'm bloated, Transit time slows. Oh and also a new symptom is TMJ at that time of my cycle! Peat fans would say take WAY MORE! You need more progesterone! Well no I have never ever been a fan of of going over 20 mg. It doesn't make me feel better the more I take. I actually get high cortisol the more I take.
@Ron J
Take my lessons I learned the hard way. Yes eat as much as you want... With the following two caveats
- Don't eat too much fat (even saturated)
- Don't go tooo crazy on protein... 100 grams is enough and anything more than 150 is too much, I started having problems with high protein.
Other than that, have at it. It's very hard to over-eat on carbs when you're eating low fat in particular.
I absolutely agree on ample calories, but be very careful about dietary fat. I gained 90 lbs because I was extremely liberal with dietary fat. You will gain weight regardless, but I think most of my weight gain could have been avoided if I focused on carbs as the main macronutrient. I didn't stop my weight gain (Scale was still going up 90 lbs later) until I stopped eating dietary fat. To be clear, I still eat high calorie (4000-5000) so that point is still critical. I'm still fat, but I have finally stopped the scale from increasing and I hope in a few months it will begin to drop. I am not worried that I am destroying my metabolism, because I still eat high calorie. But it can be easy to accidentally drop calories too low when dropping dietary fat, so be aware of this.
I eat huge meals. You will likely need to rethink what a "meal" is to eat enough. I eat several cups of rice, upwards of 3 lbs of potatoes at a time, or several cups of oatmeal... pounds or even a kg or two of grapes... etc...
I am pretty sure Haidut experienced the same thing, and also said the same thing-If he could have done it all over again, he would have eaten much lower fat. One guy here put it simply - Carbs are the gas pedal to your metabolism, and fats are the brakes. So, fats have no place in a hypo metabolism diet. In my opinion and experience at least.
90lbs is a lot. Do you have a history of high PUFA and/or calorie restriction?
I'm sure I gained some weight while on high carb, no fat, but I think it may have been due to lack of nutrients. I was consuming table sugar for a large part of carb calories. Perhaps it'll work with nutrient dense foods.@Ron J
Take my lessons I learned the hard way. Yes eat as much as you want... With the following two caveats
- Don't eat too much fat (even saturated)
- Don't go tooo crazy on protein... 100 grams is enough and anything more than 150 is too much, I started having problems with high protein.
Other than that, have at it. It's very hard to over-eat on carbs when you're eating low fat in particular.
I absolutely agree on ample calories, but be very careful about dietary fat. I gained 90 lbs because I was extremely liberal with dietary fat. You will gain weight regardless, but I think most of my weight gain could have been avoided if I focused on carbs as the main macronutrient. I didn't stop my weight gain (Scale was still going up 90 lbs later) until I stopped eating dietary fat. To be clear, I still eat high calorie (4000-5000) so that point is still critical. I'm still fat, but I have finally stopped the scale from increasing and I hope in a few months it will begin to drop. I am not worried that I am destroying my metabolism, because I still eat high calorie. But it can be easy to accidentally drop calories too low when dropping dietary fat, so be aware of this.
I eat huge meals. You will likely need to rethink what a "meal" is to eat enough. I eat several cups of rice, upwards of 3 lbs of potatoes at a time, or several cups of oatmeal... pounds or even a kg or two of grapes... etc...
I am pretty sure Haidut experienced the same thing, and also said the same thing-If he could have done it all over again, he would have eaten much lower fat. One guy here put it simply - Carbs are the gas pedal to your metabolism, and fats are the brakes. So, fats have no place in a hypo metabolism diet. In my opinion and experience at least.
I'm sure I gained some weight while on high carb, no fat, but I think it may have been due to lack of nutrients. I was consuming table sugar for a large part of carb calories. Perhaps it'll work with nutrient dense foods.
Edit: And most of my fat gain was prior to that with higher fat in addition to the carbs.
After reading a comment about bodybuilders looking unhealthy(stressed) due to lack of nutrients, I think nutrient dense foods is a must if you have more muscle mass than average or a larger than average individual.Ahh yes that would likely do it. I never use straight sugar for anything. If I really want to sweeten something I'll use something that actually has nutrition like maple syrup. Also I find sugar in general is something that can be over-done, and I actually use starch for most of my carbs. For me sugar is too unstable of an energy source for the primary source, but I do still have a good amount of it in my diet, at least 33% of my carbs.