ecstatichamster
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- Nov 21, 2015
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I wonder why Dr. Peat has been so negative about vitamin C. Or at least never positive.
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His main beef is the presence of high levels of lead. But Ray has been negative more on account of high contaminant levels not just on vitamin C, but on many other substances that otherwise have beneficial effects.I wonder why Dr. Peat has been so negative about vitamin C. Or at least never positive.
His main beef is the presence of high levels of lead. But Ray has been negative more on account of high contaminant levels not just on vitamin C, but on many other substances that otherwise have beneficial effects.
Some of the daily doses used aren't far from what people who supplement here get (I know you neutralize yours). The acidification is to help this drug work.So, is the urine acidity at 5.5 or less going to solve the urinary tract infection? If so, how long should the urine acidity have to stay at 5.5 or less? I suppose that for a limited duration, the body can tolerate such low urine pH. But then the body will have to go back to having its acid-base balance restored, otherwise being in an acidic state for a long period will cause excessive urination, loss of electrolytes and b1, to name a few nutrients lost, and it will weaken the immune system.
I think the main reason is because he experienced some adverse effects from it and started to rationalize about it (apparently Gerson's stance against sodium is similar). But Unfortunately this likely limits other therapeutic approaches that won't work unless you have plenty of vit C available, one of them is getting extra iodine.I wonder why Dr. Peat has been so negative about vitamin C. Or at least never positive.
You're making these claims again. It's not a C-complex, it's vit C, so it has to be ascorbic acid. I'm not playing the expert here, it's just that I only came across those statements when visiting websites that sell powdered fruits rich in C. Is it possible that you're currently working for this industry?Too much focus on one factor: iron.
The body needs ceruloplasmin to oxidize ferrous iron (iron II) to ferric iron (iron III), which is also less accessible to infectious organisms because iron III can be more readily sequestered by the ferritin protein. Ceruloplasmin is part of the ferroxidase complex in the body that accomplishes this.
Ceruloplasmin relies on bioavailable copper and whole food vitamin C (not ascorbic acid) to be formed. Whole food C has tyrosinase at its core, which is comprised of bioavailable copper. Magnesium is also a key factor in displacing unbound iron from tissues.
Without adequate ceruloplasmin, whole food C and magnesium, iron remains in ferrous form, remains unbound, and causes oxidative damage to the tissues. Most people in modern society are lacking in bioavailable copper and magnesium. Taking a copper supplement won't work, it'll just increase toxic copper in the body, no different than if you regularly drink water from copper pipes. Organic copper is found in things like sesame seeds, shellfish, bovine liver, etc.
If you flood a person's body with unbound iron and they are lacking in these important co-factors, then they will develop iron related diseases. It's why some people can get iron IVs and be just fine while others feel sick for days. The African studies are a reflection of this. People are poor and malnourished, so of course iron is going to feed infections. The people have no co-factors to buffer the unbound iron so that pathogenic organisms can't access it. Cancers work the same way. When the body develops cancer, it starts pumping out ferritin to sequester the iron from the cancer; but the ferritin can't bind the iron without ceruloplasmin.
You're making these claims again. It's not a C-complex, it's vit C, so it has to be ascorbic acid. I'm not playing the expert here, it's just that I only came across those statements when visiting websites that sell powdered fruits rich in C. Is it possible that you're currently working for this industry?
I'm confused by the tyrosinase thing and its usefulness. It's supposed to be present in foods that brown when they is cut, a reaction that involves the quinones that Alberto commented here.
- Polyphenol oxidase - Wikipedia
"PPO causes the rapid polymerization of o-quinones to produce black, brown or red pigments (polyphenols) that cause fruit browning. The amino acid tyrosine contains a single phenolic ring that may be oxidised by the action of PPOs to form o-quinone. Hence, PPOs may also be referred to as tyrosinases.[2]
Common foods producing the enzyme include mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), apples (Malus domestica) and lettuce (Lactuca sativa)."
- Fruits: Enzymatic Browning
- No more brown apples?
Camu-camu composition according to the following publication:
- Characterization of the Fruit Pulp of Camu-Camu (Myrciaria dubia) of Seven Different Genotypes and Their Rankings Using Statistical Methods PCA and HCA
Vitamin C: 2 g/g (or 1-6 g/g reported elsewhere)
Cupre: 3.5 mcg/g at most
You've mentioned taking 1 g of vit C somewhere on the foro from powdered camu-camu. How is that even impacting your copper levels?
Arguing that flavonoids have a synergistic effect is another story, but the effects from ascorbic acid don't depend on them.
- Flavonoids
- USDA Database for the Flavonoid Content of Selected Foods
Apparently vit C changes copper's behavior in the body by making it available to the cell by reducing it to a state that's dissociable from ceruloplasmin (transfered by glutathiod to the antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase for example), which is why on greater intakes of vit C ceruloplasmin level can be decreased.
When copper intake is low, detrimental effects become evident. To not compromise copper on high intakes of vit C, you have to increase it as well. And it makes no sense to supplement copper if you can get plenty from diet.
Do you have references to back this? I'm interested in knowing more about this.Ascorbic acid is just a fraction of the whole vitamin and doesn't have the same active properties.
That's unfortunate, they pay well.. I heard.No I don't work for an industry. I also said nothing about C complex, just whole food C. C complex supplements are a scam. You can add all the flavonoids you want to a product but if the base ingredient is ascorbate, you'll never have whole C. Ascorbic acid is not complete C because it lacks the tyrosinase core. This is important because although the body is incapable of manufacturing C, it can complete its missing function by using ceruloplasmin to complement the absence of tyrosinase at the core of ascorbate. This in turn depletes ceruloplasmin, which hinders feroxidase function.
It's not that whole food C provides copper, it's that it prevents bioavailable copper depletion. If people take several grams of ascorbate daily, it will eventually have deleterious effects on ceruloplasmin for this reason. This may be why Ray noted that ascorbic acid harmed him.
Tyrosinase is used by the adrenal gland as well. It's not just involved in melanin production. Whole food C as part of electrolyte formulas does wonders for adrenal fatigue.
Whole vitamin C also contains factor J, factor P, factor K, ascorbinogen and rutin. Ascorbic acid is just a fraction of the whole vitamin and doesn't have the same active properties. The body will draw on its own resources to make up these missing components. It can in some cases but not in others.
I encourage people to try whole food C vitamins derived from food to experience the difference. Don't buy C complex formulas, they're a scam and are still fractionated. Things like acerola cherry and camu have loads of whole food C.
That's a fair way of putting it, and it puts into context the condition/situation of the person. You can see that no one's ever saying that vitamin C found in whole foods is harmful, but you have natural purists airing their opinions regarding synthetic C being unhelpful, and even harmful. Yet, when you ask for more validation to their stance, they get irritated and end the conversation.They say this is one of the highest debated vitamins. When I am on the fence about a substance, I often try to find the positive uses for both sides of the argument. With vitamin C, right now I use whole food C for my maintenance doses (daily), and if I have a need for high gram doses for say constipation or a histamine reaction that I want to quell, I use a C ascorbate powder. I think both have their place, just like high dose IV C has miraculous benefits for someone fighting an extreme health issue. Here is what I use daily: Unripe Green Acerola Cherry Powder- Organic Freeze Dried Unripe Acerola
About a gram of natural whole food C per teaspoon. I also blend that with rose hips, camu, and amla, which I get from Z Natural.
I think both forms of vitamin C have their place, and don't need to be so hotly debated.
Influence of ascorbic acid supplementation on copper status in young adult men
"High dietary levels of ascorbic acid are antagonistic to the metabolism and function of the trace element copper in chicks (1, 2), rabbits (3, 4), rats (5), guinea pigs (6, 7), and monkeys (8). Some aspects of the chick and rabbit studies involved an exaggeration of severe dietary copper deficiency by ascorbic acid supplementation as evidenced by defects in aortic elastin and bone. There is, however, ample evidence that ascorbic acid supplementation is antagonistic to copper even when dietary copper levels are adequate. Significant reductions in growth, Hb, and hematocrit have been reported in both chicks (1) and guinea pigs (6, 7) fed diets adequate in copper and supplemented with ascorbic acid. In guinea pigs ascorbic acid supplementation also resulted in significant reductions in serum copper concentration, serum ceruloplasmin, and liver copper. Serum copper and serum ceruloplasmin were also reduced in ascorbic acid supplemented monkeys consuming a diet marginal in copper (8)."
"The results of this study show that copper status of adult men can be negatively influenced by ascorbic acid supplementation as evidenced by serum copper and serum centloplasmin determinations. Furthermore the decline in these parameters was reversed 20 days after the supplement was withdrawn."
"Although adverse health effects of reduced copper status in men as a result of ascorbic acid supplementation cannot be defined by the present study, it does provide knowledge that the potential for adverse effects exists. In the present study it was possible to demonstrate reduced copper status of men supplemented with ascorbic acid typical of intakes easily obtained from a variety of commercially available preparations [3x 500 mg/d]. The potential for an ascorbic acid antagonism of copper in man would therefore appear to be greatest for persons with a long history of elevated ascorbic acid supplementation coupled with a marginal intake of dietary copper."
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: nononoCamu-camu composition according to the following publication:
- Characterization of the Fruit Pulp of Camu-Camu (Myrciaria dubia) of Seven Different Genotypes and Their Rankings Using Statistical Methods PCA and HCA
Vitamin C: 2 g/g (or 1-6 g/g reported elsewhere)
Cupre: 3.5 mcg/g at most
You've mentioned taking 1 g of vit C somewhere on the foro from powdered camu-camu. How is that even impacting your copper levels?