cyclops
Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2017
- Messages
- 1,636
15 mg picolinate, I honestly feel it’s improved my cognition too.
That's whats up. I'm going to try this too. I can't stomach these nasty canned oysters from polluted waters anymore.
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15 mg picolinate, I honestly feel it’s improved my cognition too.
All I know is I supplement with vitamins A,B,D,E & K. C always feels left out and wants to join the party. I'm stern though; I say no evil vitamin you are not welcome here!
I didn't say that. I said that after a certain point it should stop affecting trace minerals in a negative way.Why do you suppose the more you take the less it would effect someone?
Can you be a model and reply these then?Even though you completely ignored my comment (not unusual on this forum full of men)
You reach very high intakes of vit C from those foods before having enough antinutrients from them. Same for Camu-Camu.Why people that produce or sell fresh acerolas don't eat more of them to reach at least 3g? There's no excuse because they're practically devoid of other known nutrients in relation to vit C.
No comment on this as well, why he would stop at 1g most of the time?As far as I know Albert Szent-Györgyi used bell peppers some times to extract vit C. He ingested 1g, not 3g or more, of vit C a day and 8-9g only when sick. I believe this information was taken from his biography by Ralph Moss written with his conszent, not sure. There are reports of him taking 4-5g later on, but I suppose it was when he was getting sicker.
Why do you think Max Gerson gave most patients only 400mg of vit C a day (in spread doses of 100mg!)? So why not 8g since it was supplemental anyway?
Do you think it's possible that there are vit C supplements on the market providing part of their product as dummy rounds and therefore needing higher dosages to reach the desired effect?
I wonder if supercentenarians all have superior detoxification and and antioxidant defense systems (i.e. no polymorphisms that reduce detox enzyme activity). This would significantly reduce their needed for antioxidants like vitamin C.How many supercentenarians consume at least 3g? You can't reach that age living suboptimally.
Their Mito.. chondria runs with more efficiency, right?I wonder if supercentenarians all have superior detoxification and and antioxidant defense systems (i.e. no polymorphisms that reduce detox enzyme activity). This would significantly reduce their needed for antioxidants like vitamin C.
ascorbic acid functions primarily, I think, in the cell as an oxidant maintaining cell structure and regulating synthetic processes, largely by its oxidative form, dehydroascorbic acid. And we don’t want an excess of the reduced form.
everything you can do to lower the stress hormones, aspirin, for example, is a good anti-inflammatory anti-stress agent, vitamin E is another protective, ascorbic acid in ordinary foods provides abundant amounts of ascorbic acid, so I don't recommend that as a supplement in general.
ANDREW MURRAY: This is why you’re so big on orange juice.
RAY PEAT: Yeah. And meat, eggs, milk, everything. Vegetables of all sorts contain ascorbic acid, but meat contains it in the dehydroascorbate form where people measuring the reduced form overlook it.
In 1953, when I worked in the woods the word went around that you could cure poison oak with ascorbic acid. And I tried it myself. And in just two or three days, I completely recovered from a horrible case of poison oak and never caught it again. At that time, it was very expensive to make. And the pills on sale were only 50 mg. Several years later they developed new ways of manufacturing it. One of the processes Linus Pauling described as the lead room for making sulfuric acid which is then – the sulfuric acid is slightly contaminated with lead and other heavy metals. Then the cornstarch is processed, oxidized with this industrial sulfuric acid and ends up as ascorbic acid containing quite a bit of heavy metal. And with these new methods, I found that when people were taking 500 or 1,000 mg, they would often develop cold symptoms when they took it rather than when they didn't take it. And it apparently is irritating enough to the intestines that it causes endotoxin absorption and inflammation of the nose and throat and chest membrane. And citric acid is manufactured by very similar methods to ascorbic acid. And they really shouldn't be considered to have anything to do with the natural ascorbic acid or citric acid. The person who can get very sick on 2 mg of synthetic ascorbic acid can eat 4,000 mg of natural ascorbic acid with no reaction at all.
But why would it stop effecting trace minerals after a while? And like I said before sometimes removal of minerals is necessary. I got a HTMA a couple yrs ago and all my toxic heavy metals were very low. That most likely means very poor eliminator. Also my calcium and mag were high. Slow oxidizer. Maybe those supercentenarians have no issue with elimination of toxic metals. Maybe they were able to fast. Like that Gbolduev guy said vit C will absolutely help a slow oxidizer but fasting would be faster.I didn't say that. I said that after a certain point it should stop affecting trace minerals in a negative way.
It can still make the bowels move if you're at the imminence of intolerance.
Can you be a model and reply these then?
You reach very high intakes of vit C from those foods before having enough antinutrients from them. Same for Camu-Camu.
No comment on this as well, why he would stop at 1g most of the time?
If you give supplemental vit C to a congested person, a little excess worsens the person's congestion. If supplemental vit C always comes without negatives, how would you explain this characteristic worsening of stasis? Things should move on the right direction right away, no?
And just to recapitulate, I'm not against higher doses of vit C for therapeutic reasons, but not everyone needs those. I'm talking about unnecessary supplementation. I'm guessing most people need around 500-1000mg. Assuming that everyone needs at least 3g a day based on monkeys is delirium for the simple fact that it's not obtainable through foods, so the first thought that comes to mind is: some adaptation must have occurred along the way that allowed ourselves to deal with the inability to make our own. It's only in sickness that we probably fall short of it.
How many supercentenarians consume at least 3g? You can't reach that age living suboptimally. Examples of people living long supplementing vit C don't prove that everyone needs more of it since there are plenty of examples of people that never touched a C supplement living way more.
If supplements are likely contaminated and most people can get enough through foods, why bother supplementing if you were to maintain health?
Frank mentioned his reasons: to reduce costs and probably convenience. But if fruits were cheap and available, what he would choose?
And he uses food-based in reasonable amounts.
Calcirol - Liquid Supplement With Vitamin D3
By the way, that's the exact article that I left as comment in Nathan's article.
That refutes Peat's claim that oral ascorbate increases endotoxin absorption. I sometimes wonder if Peat is suffering from paranoia. I can relate. But I'm not that way anymore. I do things that resonate with me, no matter what any expert says.Also anyone here would be interested in this study http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.629.6095&rep=rep1&type=pdf where they conclude that in sepsis oral ascorbate decreases endotoxin translocation from the gut to the blood.
And how many of them will be asking for a lab analysis of their supplement? If it can deplete minerals and introduce contaminants, it can poison the person despite not having any immediate effect.How many people out there are truly healthy? Even in this group at such young ages with serious life altering issues.
I have no idea how much I get, it's probably around 1.5g. But I don't use myself as reference for what other should be taking.Are you the healthy type? Maybe that is why you are gung ho about debating the C requirement.
It's a way of conserving it, it doesn't mean that you don't need it anymore. It's just a way to decrease our needs.That recycling of vit C why did that not happen with sailors? Plus Peat says meat has a form that's better the DHA form, I'm sure the sailors were eating meat. Such a terrible death prevented by some lemon juice!I really believe I had subclinical scurvy despite pasteurized OJ, milk, meat, some fruit. I had bleeding gums, fatigue, shortness of breath, coated tongue, emotional disturbance, etc.
What do you think should be used to determine this?@Travisord - In your opinion, what is a reasonable range of intake for healthy gurus?
Do you know Dr Garrett Smith? He has been doing HTMA for yrs now, he says on good days he gets 8-10 grams ascorbic acid a day. he recommends it for a lot of people. If he saw minerals going down because of it for sure he'd change it up. He's big on reducing iron too. But he also thinks Peat's high sugar diet is ridiculous.Because in excess it can be a localized oxidant before absorption, and so it would be difficult to measure it based on blood markers. Removal of minerals is good as long as you can replenish them, but it's much easier to find good sources of vit C than it's to find for trace minerals, even more so if you need specific ones. Also the body has more control over water-soluble vitamins than minerals: if you take one of them to the point of affecting minerals it can't be good. It's also easy to supplement an excess of needs without realizing because it's very convenient.
Most places import decent fruits, but if you really don't have access to them, a food-based supplement might be safer.
And how many of them will be asking for a lab analysis of their supplement? If it can deplete minerals and introduce contaminants, it can poison the person despite not having any immediate effect.
Many people here struggle in getting enough zinc, copper, molybdenum, selenium, etc.
I have no idea how much I get, it's probably around 1.5g. But I don't use myself as reference for what other should be taking.
It's a way of conserving it, it doesn't mean that you don't need it anymore. It's just a way to decrease our needs.
I think Rayzord is hypersensitive and we should always be paying attention to hypersensitives have to say, EMF is a good example.
Also I'm sure the body will adapt to unusual intakes if you insist on doing it. If I'm not wrong, Abram Hoffer used to supplement 600mcg of selenium a day.
Some of the questions remain unanswered.
But anyway, what do you consider to be the minimum required for good health?
I'm pretty sure if it affects iron, it affects all other minerals, including the hard-to-get ones, indirectly or not.Do you have any proof ascorbic acid messes with minerals?
I've never seen anywhere that says it affects all minerals. I know it helps absorb non heme iron. But the more iron in the system the more antioxidant support you need. Some say it lowers ceruloplasmin but some say that is a good thing. Like I said I want to see proof that it would affect any mineral negatively. I think the top things that most negatively effects minerals is caffeine and refined sugar. And those are widely promoted here. (I still consume plenty of sugar but try to do more meals instead of sugary milk and OJ, if I do juice it's always with cheese)I'm pretty sure if it affects iron, it affects all other minerals, including the hard-to-get ones, indirectly or not.
I thought about searching for the vit C intakes if people had an abundant bouqueI mean, buffet available as an experiment, but the majority would select foods based on habits. The reason why I always use farmers as examples is because they're a group of people that usually have ample access to a variety of foods since birth (family business). From knowing quite a few of them and their family, I would guess they consume around 500-1000mg, sometimes a bit more or less. And they have acerolas, guavas, camu-camu, available in insane amounts if they wanted to. They usually eat a moderate amount of fruit and the majority of calories come from starch.
Urinary organic acid tests measure asorbic acid and use it to indicate nutritional status of Vitamin C. Do you think this test is a meaningful measure of Vitamin C status considering the urine is collected after an overnight fast? I average 1 to 2 grams of vitamin c (according to MyFitnessPal) most days. But my urinary asorbic acid was flagged low. Low means more than two standard deviations below the median (of all males over age 13 that have ever taken the test).If a person continues to destroy most dietary vitamin C with heat, then taking two grams should suffice for near‐maximum collagen synthesis; this would certainly help to prevent cardiovascular disease, broken bones, and cataracts.
Lets say that they miss typed in certificate of analyses: mercury pmm, and meant ppm, because idk what pmm is. Correct me if someone knows what is pmm.Here is the COA I received with my first batch of vitamin C. Katie, the lady who gets it from China will not sell anything she won't give her children. She did get sick from I believe it was bulk supplements? Can't remember, but now I don't trust any other C.
I agree they need to figure out the number and not just give a range.Lets say that they miss typed in certificate of analyses: mercury pmm, and meant ppm, because idk what pmm is. Correct me if someone knows what is pmm.
Mercury < 2 ppm is broad to say the least.
Something more adequate would be if analysis stated mercury < 0.10 ppm (which is about how it is in smaller tuna, you wouldn't eat as much ascorbic acid as you could tuna though)
Lets take worse case scenario:
1.9 ppm * 1 gramm (vitamin C dose) = 1.9 micrograms of mercury
I wonder why the assey for mecrury is not at least up to one tenth... is it that they dont have the appropriate equipment or they have and it’s 1.99 ppm
I would take tree/fruit filtration system over chinese analyses any day!
Now that is interesting.Urinary organic acid tests measure asorbic acid and use it to indicate nutritional status of Vitamin C. Do you think this test is a meaningful measure of Vitamin C status considering the urine is collected after an overnight fast? I average 1 to 2 grams of vitamin c (according to MyFitnessPal) most days. But my urinary asorbic acid was flagged low. Low means more than two standard deviations below the median (of all males over age 13 that have ever taken the test).