What To Do For Allergies When Nothing Else Is Working?

[Blossom]

I hate to butt in but please consider b6 before using evening primrose oil. It is as close to pure gama-linoleic acid as you can get. It down regulates the metabolism so it may seem to be helping but it's really not. Other forum members have found relief with b6. I just wanted to mention that because I used to take it and I wish someone had warned me about it.

 

[Kray]

Blossom,

Thanks for your rescue! I canceled my order, too chicken! I have been taking B6, but in the form of P-5-P. Does it matter which form, and do you know what maximum dose is ok? I've been taking about 50mg a day of the P5P for about a week but still no relief from the dry skin rash. I wonder how long before I'll get some relief?

 

[Blossom]

I believe the regular b6 is safer as far as toxicity goes. Apparently p-5-p can build up in the system to toxic levels easier than just ordinary b6. I do think dosage varies like with most other supplements so you probably will have to experiment unfortunately. Sorry I don't have a real easy answer. Maybe you can start a new topic and ask forum members who have used b6 for dermatitis to tell what dosage works for them? I'm so happy you cancelled the EPO order, that made my day! Good luck classicallady!

 

[HDD]

Aaaaa! My daughter's midwife is having her supplement epo for the last weeks of her pregnancy and also take it vaginally. I used to take it for MS when I was following an MS diet book 25 years ago.

 

[Kray]

I believe the regular b6 is safer as far as toxicity goes. Apparently p-5-p can build up in the system to toxic levels easier than just ordinary b6. I do think dosage varies like with most other supplements so you probably will have to experiment unfortunately. Sorry I don't have a real easy answer. Maybe you can start a new topic and ask forum members who have used b6 for dermatitis to tell what dosage works for them? I'm so happy you cancelled the EPO order, that made my day! Good luck classicallady!

Blossom,

Thanks for your input, don't worry, we are sharing here!

I tried to find something about the P5P you mentioned-- if you can link me to a source I'd appreciate it. Another thing, whether that form or the B6-- I just read that B6 enhances serotonin production. Unless I'm missing something, isn't serotonin something we want to inhibit? Taking more B6 would only increase it.

 

[Blossom]

I do think the I can find some links for you after work today. The p-5-p is just more readily absorbed and that is why it has a higher potential of building up to a toxic level. That's not that I think it will necessary happen to you but if you take b6 your body normally uses what it needs and doesn't convert the rest. With p-5-p a conversion step has already happened before you even swallow the supplement so it is more likely to build up as compared to b6. I wasn't aware at all about it supposedly increasing serotonin. I think serotonin is highly misunderstood. Did what you read say it enhanced reuptake by chance?

 

[Kray]

Here is a link to a description of a B6 product:

http://www.iherb.com/Thompson-B6-100-mg ... =null&ic=9

Also, whichever form is used, the Bs are excreted, aren't they?

 

[Blossom]

Yes. I didn't mean to fearmonger about b6 at all! I'm sure it takes several hundred milligrams daily long term to even have the potential for an issue and we are all so different anyway. If you have p-5-p then you should definitely take it if it works for you! I know that regular b6 is more affordable but if that's not an issue that's great! Here is what I found from Danny Roddy regarding b6 from a Ray Peat email response:
Ray wrote:
"10mg per day is a big dose. It's effects are usually visible immediately or within a few days if it's going to be helpful. It's best to get the b vitamins from regular foods, occasionally with liver because supplements usually contain contaminants that can cause allergic reactions when they are used for a long time. Other b vitamins that are usually safe for occasional use are b1, niacinamide and pantothenic acid."
Sorry that's all I have for the moment since I'm not at a computer. I do encourage you to start a post to dialogue with forum members who have used b6 for similar issues!
I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression about p-5-p. I doubt in a 50 mg dose of either form of b6 you would have a toxicity issue. I have been using 10 mg myself to help aid in lowering prolactin.
Boy I sure got myself in deep with this classicallady, I just didn't want you to go on EPO and I knew forum members had used b6 for dermatitis with success! I will try to find more info after work.

 

[Kray]

Blossom,

No worries. I have to think for myself, and I have access to computer as well. I'll consider the B6 post. I also will heed Peat's words about supplements. I do try to keep mine as pure as possible when I do supplement, but there can also be a problem with the purity of the active ingredient, which is often overlooked when we find that one without any excipients!

Thanks for your help and concerns, as always. :)

 

[Blossom]

Blossom,

No worries. I have to think for myself, and I have access to computer as well. I'll consider the B6 post. I also will heed Peat's words about supplements. I do try to keep mine as pure as possible when I do supplement, but there can also be a problem with the purity of the active ingredient, which is often overlooked when we find that one without any excipients!

Thanks for your help and concerns, as always. :)

I think a lot of people, myself included find certain supplements necessary after a lifetime of inadequate nutrition etc. I'm looking forward to the day when I don't need as much but right now I have to live in the reality of where I'm at. So keeping in mind that context is everything you may end up deciding you need certain supplements in your healing process. There's the ideal world and the real world. I believe mittir posted that Ray was able to help people cure their allergies by stopping all supplements and I had read that before myself. I would get as much feed back as you can from other forum members so you can get a wide variety of ideas. I just wonder if you haven't stimulated your metabolism to the point where you require more nutrition. I believe it was Charlie that had success with b6 for his dermatitis. I love the forum and owe my life to Ray Peat but I'm not a scientist just an ordinary women who is no longer sick. I have read so much by Peat but I'm not so good with going out and navigating the mainstream misinformation machine floating around out there. Probably I will get to that point one day but for now I just see so much that is wrong that I pretty much choose to ignore most of it. I saw what you were talking about on b6 and serotonin though. I just think it's not real simple and sort of like everything else where we do need some b6 and there are some undesirable aspects but we need it nonetheless. Sort of like we need protein but we need to balance that so that there are minimal negative consequences. I'm still going to review what I have at home and see if I can come up with anything that might help further.

 

[Kray]

Blossom,

Understood, agreed, and thankful for your points. :)

C-Lady

 

[Peata]

Saw this in another thread:

Vinero wrote:It seems that a thiamine deficiency, also known as vitamin B1, can have some undesirable consequences such as:
-Increased histamine levels: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01997372
-Low body temperature: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2090843

Haidut already posted studies about how thiamine can cure Crohn's/IBS, MS fatigue, and Alzheimers in massive doses ranging from 500mg-1500mg every 4 hours. The sufferers in the studies weren't deficient in thiamine according to bloodtests, yet benefited from supplementation.
The standards for adequate thiamine are simply too low; or the body has trouble getting thiamine into the cells despite normal blood levels.
So, if your still having low temperatures, stomach problems, and excess histamine despite doing everything right, you might have a mild thiamine deficiency going on. Especially if you are eating a lot of white sugar, caffeine, aspirin, etc which stimulate metabolism deepening the thiamine deficiency.

 

[Blossom]

Blossom,

Understood, agreed, and thankful for your points. :)

C-Lady

Gosh, I sure hope I didn't sound rude! It's just hard to say for certain since there are no real clear cut guidelines on a lot of the supplements. It's not one size fits all in the least! I think Peat is very non authoritarian which is good and wants to see us figure things out because we grow in the process and are empowered. That's why I thought having some input with other ' dermatitis' people might help the most. There's also the context issue. :)

 

[Kray]

Hi Blossom,

Here's something I found about B6 (and P5P). In the article, below, under "Supplemental B6", there is a comment toward the end of the paragraph about the downside of P5P, as well as mention about too-high supplemental doses of B6 pyridoxine. Perhaps these factors are what you had concerns about.

http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-an ... ed-vitamin
:)
Classicallady

 

[charlie]

From link above:

Supplementation with doses above the upper tolerable intake level of 100 mg per day can lead to nerve damage in the arms and legs and possibly the spinal cord, usually reversible when supplementation is stopped.9 In addition, there is research suggesting that high doses of B6 can generate toxic photo-products as a result of UV irradiation.38

 

[Kray]

From link above:

Supplementation with doses above the upper tolerable intake level of 100 mg per day can lead to nerve damage in the arms and legs and possibly the spinal cord, usually reversible when supplementation is stopped.9 In addition, there is research suggesting that high doses of B6 can generate toxic photo-products as a result of UV irradiation.38

Thanks. Doesn't sound like a too-pleasant side effect.

 

[charlie]

Exactly. Thats why I suggest no one to do this. It comes with possible bad effects if toxicity issues come into play. I plan on taking a break from it a couple days, to see if the dermatitis comes back.

 

[Kray]

Exactly. Thats why I suggest no one to do this. It comes with possible bad effects if toxicity issues come into play. I plan on taking a break from it a couple days, to see if the dermatitis comes back.

Good idea to break on both counts. And if it does come back during the break, that will be a confirmation. I have wondered how long on the extra B to make a big difference, especially for something as chronic as dermatitis. You said yours was a matter of days at the higher doses? Just looking ahead. :)

 

[charlie]

Noticed immediate difference the next day.

 

[Kray]

Noticed immediate difference the next day.

Charlie,

Has the dermatitis kept you from certain foods, like you've had problems with aspirin? Which ones, if I may ask?