Where to go off-grid in Europe

[FrankMa]

I also was about to say Slovenia.

Off-grid, Ukraine comes to mind as well. (Sorry couldn’t resist, since Perry is in this thread. Might be bad taste.)

Why Slovenia in your opinion?

 

[MasterjohnFAN]

I don`t have children but moren and more would like to have offspring.
Very good point; in Germany you are obliged to go to school until the age of 16.
If you don`t police is knocking on your door.
Same in Sweden?

yes you cant live freeley

 

[António Marceli]

Hey,

I am planing to go off-grid, building a tiny house.
I know that you can do it without many restrictions in Poland and Sweden, as long as you stay below around 35m2.

But I prefer to go south.
Any ideas where I can do it without much regulatory restrictions?

Hey.
I am from Portugal.
So i can give you an idea.
Generally speaking,all is possible here.
Last two years i lived in alentejo and the algarve down south.
There are lots of expats doing diferent things from tropical food forests, goat keeping,ecobuildings,communities,etc.
Alentejo near Odemira should be a place,lots of small communities, the sea is very close.
Land prices are skyrocketing though.
In the algarve near Messines i met a french couple who bought something like 2000square meters for 250000euros and they instaled their van there,put some solars and they are fine. The land since is classified as rural and not allowed for building you can always install up to 50sqm a kind of shelter for farming stuff.
So technically you have a tiny house.
Municipalities don t do inspections but normally they know and don t care because the mindset in rural areas are diferent.
You can get lucky in rural algarve,wich is 30kn from the sea,like 20min.
Barão de sao joao was and still is a kind of hiipie village. Sao Marcos da Serra can have lands to sell. Monchique mountain has thermal waters and is 30km from the sea.
The north from Porto up doesn t have much expats, so is a virgin land.
But the north rains more and cold.
But the land should be cheaper.
The south is starting to have lack of water due to droughts.
Since the south has more expats and context that should be a option.
Portuguese are frindly but they are like hobbits they mind their own business and depending one can feel an alien evenmore being foreigner like you,they dont engage much,too conservative.
For context.definetly.south.
But hey nothing better than travel.
Maybe doing woofing because then you should have alternative views and networks of people. There are groups in telegram for alentejo region where you can ask advice and so.
Facebook groups also.
The advantage portugal has in my view is since we are in the tail of europe nothing ever extreme goes here,i talk about wars and stuff,covid was kind of a breeze here, no fuss. That has being the story around here for sometime,maybe the conservative advantage eheh
I say.conservative not in political sense but in not being progressive or adventurous experimenting new ideas.
And the sun bro.
I lived in nerherlands and i really missed the sun. So for.longevity and Peat principles should be fine.

 

[Jayvee]

You can buy cheap houses with lots of land in Sardinia. Some at reasonably high altitude (but comes with a harsh winter) a side from that the climate their is good and culturally they seem to be kind of autonomous and semi independent from Italy. Enough remote places there to be away from too much crazy stuff like lockdowns anyway

 

[Jayvee]

Also I have been looking at places in Europe and Portugal keeps seeming to come out the best. Especially some of their islands.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Hey.
I am from Portugal.
So i can give you an idea.
Generally speaking,all is possible here.
Last two years i lived in alentejo and the algarve down south.
There are lots of expats doing diferent things from tropical food forests, goat keeping,ecobuildings,communities,etc.
Alentejo near Odemira should be a place,lots of small communities, the sea is very close.
Land prices are skyrocketing though.
In the algarve near Messines i met a french couple who bought something like 2000square meters for 250000euros and they instaled their van there,put some solars and they are fine. The land since is classified as rural and not allowed for building you can always install up to 50sqm a kind of shelter for farming stuff.
So technically you have a tiny house.
Municipalities don t do inspections but normally they know and don t care because the mindset in rural areas are diferent.
You can get lucky in rural algarve,wich is 30kn from the sea,like 20min.
Barão de sao joao was and still is a kind of hiipie village. Sao Marcos da Serra can have lands to sell. Monchique mountain has thermal waters and is 30km from the sea.
The north from Porto up doesn t have much expats, so is a virgin land.
But the north rains more and cold.
But the land should be cheaper.
The south is starting to have lack of water due to droughts.
Since the south has more expats and context that should be a option.
Portuguese are frindly but they are like hobbits they mind their own business and depending one can feel an alien evenmore being foreigner like you,they dont engage much,too conservative.
For context.definetly.south.
But hey nothing better than travel.
Maybe doing woofing because then you should have alternative views and networks of people. There are groups in telegram for alentejo region where you can ask advice and so.
Facebook groups also.
The advantage portugal has in my view is since we are in the tail of europe nothing ever extreme goes here,i talk about wars and stuff,covid was kind of a breeze here, no fuss. That has being the story around here for sometime,maybe the conservative advantage eheh
I say.conservative not in political sense but in not being progressive or adventurous experimenting new ideas.
And the sun bro.
I lived in nerherlands and i really missed the sun. So for.longevity and Peat principles should be fine.

Thanks for that, reads very interesting.

 

[FrankMa]

Hey.
I am from Portugal.
So i can give you an idea.
Generally speaking,all is possible here.
Last two years i lived in alentejo and the algarve down south.
There are lots of expats doing diferent things from tropical food forests, goat keeping,ecobuildings,communities,etc.
Alentejo near Odemira should be a place,lots of small communities, the sea is very close.
Land prices are skyrocketing though.
In the algarve near Messines i met a french couple who bought something like 2000square meters for 250000euros and they instaled their van there,put some solars and they are fine. The land since is classified as rural and not allowed for building you can always install up to 50sqm a kind of shelter for farming stuff.
So technically you have a tiny house.
Municipalities don t do inspections but normally they know and don t care because the mindset in rural areas are diferent.
You can get lucky in rural algarve,wich is 30kn from the sea,like 20min.
Barão de sao joao was and still is a kind of hiipie village. Sao Marcos da Serra can have lands to sell. Monchique mountain has thermal waters and is 30km from the sea.
The north from Porto up doesn t have much expats, so is a virgin land.
But the north rains more and cold.
But the land should be cheaper.
The south is starting to have lack of water due to droughts.
Since the south has more expats and context that should be a option.
Portuguese are frindly but they are like hobbits they mind their own business and depending one can feel an alien evenmore being foreigner like you,they dont engage much,too conservative.
For context.definetly.south.
But hey nothing better than travel.
Maybe doing woofing because then you should have alternative views and networks of people. There are groups in telegram for alentejo region where you can ask advice and so.
Facebook groups also.
The advantage portugal has in my view is since we are in the tail of europe nothing ever extreme goes here,i talk about wars and stuff,covid was kind of a breeze here, no fuss. That has being the story around here for sometime,maybe the conservative advantage eheh
I say.conservative not in political sense but in not being progressive or adventurous experimenting new ideas.
And the sun bro.
I lived in nerherlands and i really missed the sun. So for.longevity and Peat principles should be fine.

Hey Antonio,

I can`t thank you enough for your post; that is exactly the information I was looking for.
I read somewhere that houses in Alentejo are traditionally build of clay.
I would love to build such a house myself even though I have different building ideas in mind.
I was traveling a lot and don`t want to stop that at all but I need a place which I can call home,
my own land, nice cilmate, the sea, no stress, home grown food, trees....

I was thinking about going to Portugal by car within the next weeks in order to explore parts of the country which I
don`t know yet; I have been to Lisbon, Porto and Faro but only stayed withing those towns.
I could go by plan but I prefer to go car in order to explore the country more easily.
It is aroung 2600km but there is much to discover on the way.
If you like we could have a drink together....

 

[António Marceli]

Hey Antonio,

I can`t thank you enough for your post; that is exactly the information I was looking for.
I read somewhere that houses in Alentejo are traditionally build of clay.
I would love to build such a house myself even though I have different building ideas in mind.
I was traveling a lot and don`t want to stop that at all but I need a place which I can call home,
my own land, nice cilmate, the sea, no stress, home grown food, trees....

I was thinking about going to Portugal by car within the next weeks in order to explore parts of the country which I
don`t know yet; I have been to Lisbon, Porto and Faro but only stayed withing those towns.
I could go by plan but I prefer to go car in order to explore the country more easily.
It is aroung 2600km but there is much to discover on the way.
If you like we could have a drink together....

Hey!
Yes,in alentejo they were built with taipa technique, and it is the only solution that fits the climate, summer is so hot nature kind of hibernate. Expats are building tiny houses with other techniques but they don t fit the place for summer.
But as far as i know taipa is being lost, not many people do it,it is labor intensive.
By car seems a good idea.
But then i think you need context.
Doing woofing should be a good idea.
Portugal is peaceful,as i say, its hobbit laand, eventhough like aany other country, have its own paranoias.
You have to explore small villages and rural areas,they pretty much stop in time.
There is also the center in portugal knowned also for expaats coming since the 70 or 80. But is far from the sea.
This area covers Lousã, Arganil, Góis, Benfeita. In Gois a friend bought an half an hectar of land for 9thousand euros. The problem is eucalyptus land and we have problems with fire,every year there is fire.
I insist,do woofing, lots of expats have organic farms down south and so you can have a better picture.
I am in Porto right now, and also in a small tiny village up north in national park. 30 people village. Very harsh area,only 3months window for agriculture. In allentejo i met a guy who did 2 crops of potatos and all evvery year,so the pootential to grow food is awsome...if you have water. But with permaculture and food forests everyrhing is possible.
I would love to have a drink,maybe take you to my village,you re verry welcome.
[email protected]
Drop an email, just warn me in time, because my house in the village, i am doing tourism,but you can stay there for free.
Take caare!

 

[FrankMa]

Hey!
Yes,in alentejo they were built with taipa technique, and it is the only solution that fits the climate, summer is so hot nature kind of hibernate. Expats are building tiny houses with other techniques but they don t fit the place for summer.
But as far as i know taipa is being lost, not many people do it,it is labor intensive.
By car seems a good idea.
But then i think you need context.
Doing woofing should be a good idea.
Portugal is peaceful,as i say, its hobbit laand, eventhough like aany other country, have its own paranoias.
You have to explore small villages and rural areas,they pretty much stop in time.
There is also the center in portugal knowned also for expaats coming since the 70 or 80. But is far from the sea.
This area covers Lousã, Arganil, Góis, Benfeita. In Gois a friend bought an half an hectar of land for 9thousand euros. The problem is eucalyptus land and we have problems with fire,every year there is fire.
I insist,do woofing, lots of expats have organic farms down south and so you can have a better picture.
I am in Porto right now, and also in a small tiny village up north in national park. 30 people village. Very harsh area,only 3months window for agriculture. In allentejo i met a guy who did 2 crops of potatos and all evvery year,so the pootential to grow food is awsome...if you have water. But with permaculture and food forests everyrhing is possible.
I would love to have a drink,maybe take you to my village,you re verry welcome.
[email protected]
Drop an email, just warn me in time, because my house in the village, i am doing tourism,but you can stay there for free.
Take caare!

Hey,

I find it interesting that in Alentejo modern tiny houses can`t compete with traditional houses.
I did not know that the technique to build so a traditional house is called Taipa; good to know; now I can research further
how to build such a house; I don`t mind that it is labor intensive; maybe quite the opposite.

Yes, I am going to go by car; sleeping in my car brings so much flexibility and saves money.
My back windows are darkened, I have build a nice and comfortable bed, so basically I can stealth
"camp" wherever I want; nobody knows that someone is sleeping in that car; at least if I move daily or
stay just a short period of time at the same place.

I didn`t know woofing before you mentioned it; looked it up in between on the internet, found some nice places to woof;
I am sure I am going to work at same of these projects.
I have been to Spain by car, even lived there as student for about a year; I discovered many small villages in rural areas
which left the impression that time has stood still; I am pretty keen on experiencing the same in Portugal;
Portugal always has striked me as very peaceful but sure every country has its paranoias, we in Germany. obvioulsy too.

Wow, 9000 Euros for half an acre of land is quite a bargain; even though I prefere to live by the sea I can image living in the Portugese mountains, I have seen some very nice, green areas on pictures on the internet. Besides that I prefer Alentejos climate, I like it hot; live is so much easier if you don` t have to heat your home; you need less clothing, just some cold water for showering, your clothes dry quickly, etc. and I like sweating.

Thank you for inviting me to your village; very kind of you.You are going to be first Peat inspired human being I meat in real life.
Will be a pleasure to get to know you.

I contact you in time before I start my journey to Portugal. I think it will be sometime mid March.

Frank

 

[Herbie]

I was living in England and now living in Australia in middle of summer, I would never go back to Europe winters, this contrast made be realise how important the sun is for health. I've made my lifestyle around the sun.

I live in my car as well. Its OK but having a shower and using the bathroom in the morning is something I really miss. I swim in the ocean every day and go to moutains and waterfalls on the weekend to swim.

 

[FrankMa]

I was living in England and now living in Australia in middle of summer, I would never go back to Europe winters, this contrast made be realise how important the sun is for health. I've made my lifestyle around the sun.

I live in my car as well. Its OK but having a shower and using the bathroom in the morning is something I really miss. I swim in the ocean every day and go to moutains and waterfalls on the weekend to swim.

Hey Herbie,

I totally understand how you feel.
I came backt to Germany in Oktober; before have been to Turkey and Cyprus which have nice, warm weather.
I soon will leave again, heading south, need the sun again-
Using the bathroom is nice, absolutely, nevertheless I would not trade the convenience of a bathroom any more for warm weather.
May I ask how you make a living?

 

[Logan-]

Hey,

I find it interesting that in Alentejo modern tiny houses can`t compete with traditional houses.
I did not know that the technique to build so a traditional house is called Taipa; good to know; now I can research further
how to build such a house; I don`t mind that it is labor intensive; maybe quite the opposite.

Yes, I am going to go by car; sleeping in my car brings so much flexibility and saves money.
My back windows are darkened, I have build a nice and comfortable bed, so basically I can stealth
"camp" wherever I want; nobody knows that someone is sleeping in that car; at least if I move daily or
stay just a short period of time at the same place.

I didn`t know woofing before you mentioned it; looked it up in between on the internet, found some nice places to woof;
I am sure I am going to work at same of these projects.
I have been to Spain by car, even lived there as student for about a year; I discovered many small villages in rural areas
which left the impression that time has stood still; I am pretty keen on experiencing the same in Portugal;
Portugal always has striked me as very peaceful but sure every country has its paranoias, we in Germany. obvioulsy too.

Wow, 9000 Euros for half an acre of land is quite a bargain; even though I prefere to live by the sea I can image living in the Portugese mountains, I have seen some very nice, green areas on pictures on the internet. Besides that I prefer Alentejos climate, I like it hot; live is so much easier if you don` t have to heat your home; you need less clothing, just some cold water for showering, your clothes dry quickly, etc. and I like sweating.

Thank you for inviting me to your village; very kind of you.You are going to be first Peat inspired human being I meat in real life.
Will be a pleasure to get to know you.

I contact you in time before I start my journey to Portugal. I think it will be sometime mid March.

Frank

Do you have a station wagon?

 

[FrankMa]

Do you have a station wagon?

No, I had one before; it was better than my current car which is a Seat Leon but nevertheless my sleeping setup
in the back is quite cozy; I am not very tall, with 178cm a Seat Leon is fine.

 

[Logan-]

No, I had one before; it was better than my current car which is a Seat Leon but nevertheless my sleeping setup
in the back is quite cozy; I am not very tall, with 178cm a Seat Leon is fine.

How did you build a nice and comfortable bed on the back of a hatchback car?

 

[Herbie]

Hey Herbie,

I totally understand how you feel.
I came backt to Germany in Oktober; before have been to Turkey and Cyprus which have nice, warm weather.
I soon will leave again, heading south, need the sun again-
Using the bathroom is nice, absolutely, nevertheless I would not trade the convenience of a bathroom any more for warm weather.
May I ask how you make a living?

Huge contrast to head north at the end of summer.

Car mechanic.

 

[youngsinatra]

How is italy?

I am currently learning italian and I personally could imagine moving there in the future. I like the culture, climate and landscape. I also want to escape the horrible german weather. But I also have concerns about the new world agenda and I suspect that the EU will collectively bow to it.

 

[FrankMa]

How is italy?

I am currently learning italian and I personally could imagine moving there in the future. I like the culture, climate and landscape. I also want to escape the horrible german weather. But I also have concerns about the new world agenda and I suspect that the EU will collectively bow to it.

Hey,

I have been to Umbria, Toscani and Sicily.
Very nice over there but one hast to speak Italian, in some regions barely anyone spoke English.
Besides that Italy is know for its exuberant bureaucracy, as far as I know it is very hard to obtain building permit for
something special like a tiny house; I personally would prefer something more international like the south of Portugal.

 

[FrankMa]

How did you build a nice and comfortable bed on the back of a hatchback car?

Acutally it is quite simply.
First I removed the back seats, then I build a framework out of squared wood to have an even level;
on that I put plywood boards, on that my matress.
The framework is expandle to the front.
In the evenings I arrest the front seats forward as far as possible, exand the framework
- this way the framework is around 180cm long -
and attach a black curtain behind the front seats.
Unter the framework I have storing capacity.
On the back windows I have wind deflectors; this way I can open them a few centimeters without anoyone noticing
that the windows are not fully closed.
I have a little camping gas stove, a cooking pot, some clothing,
if I want to shower I attach a camping shower which sucks water from a little transportable pond on the outside of my car;
I wash with backing soda, I just drive to a quite place in the night, have a quick shower.

The only problem I wasn`t able to solve is steahlt heating / cooling.
I thing the only viable option is via a big battery but such devices are expensive and you still have to
charge them on a grid, solar charging would be an option.

 

[FrankMa]

Also I have been looking at places in Europe and Portugal keeps seeming to come out the best. Especially some of their islands.

Yes, the island like Madeira are very beautiful but I haven`t figured out how to take my car there.

 

[FrankMa]

You can buy cheap houses with lots of land in Sardinia. Some at reasonably high altitude (but comes with a harsh winter) a side from that the climate their is good and culturally they seem to be kind of autonomous and semi independent from Italy. Enough remote places there to be away from too much crazy stuff like lockdowns anyway

I have been to Sardinia in summer. It was beautiful but very hot and not much vegetation, much was burned, there were many remote places where you most likely can live quietly.
There are many regions in Italy where you can buy a house for 1 Euro if you stay there and renovate the property withing 2 or 3 years or so. That comes with a cost but that would not be a problem if you find a nice place.
Italy is beautiful but I really don`t like Italys bureaucracy ( not that I have ever experiened it but heard / read quite enough about it ).
Portugal is in some parts way more international and more modern, less bureaucracy but then you don` t have the Mediterranean Sea but the Atlantic which is more harsh and colder.
You can`t have everything, I suppose