WHO would win in a fight: a HIGH DHT Male or a HIGH T Male?

[Gabriel Dell]

We need @haidut here

 

[Gabriel Dell]

What matters more testosterone or dht for size and strength
@JamesGatz
Found this guy who does funny videos who pretends to be a janitor , bad trainer or a gym newbie at a gym and talks kind of like borat and lifts these extreme amount of weights that the swol gym rats cant or can barely lift.

View: https://youtu.be/kEQHu-mCun8


View: https://youtu.be/XOqK2wgsJGA


View: https://youtu.be/KwZGE6wSqEM


I thought it might be fake weights but this is video of him lifting with Larry wheeler

View: https://youtu.be/Kd9CorRKoZ0

At the age of 14, he got access to the internet and began watching videos of American bodybuilders and bloggers.

According to Vladimir, he dreamed of becoming a blogger so that he can motivate people and become famous.

However, he did not have access to a gym in his village, so he created his own.

He called it “Golds Gym Krishtopovka” and he used old parts from Soviet-era tractors, wood, and bricks to build the necessary equipment.

At 15 years old, Vladmir’s diet consists of 7 meals per day—one meal every 2 hours—consisting of cottage cheese and eggs.

He also brought containers of oatmeal to school where he got laughed at by his classmates and teachers.

In the morning and afternoon, he would do a lot of farm work like feeding cows and managing a garden while he worked out in the evening.

He is 5’11 170 pounds no idea if he is natty

I think he is taking something like Halotestin/Dbol/Hemogenin for Strenght

 

[area51puy]

We need @haidut here

Good idea. We can have ray peat forum ultimate fighting tournament and then send are toe clippings to haidut to analyze for dht and test levels and finally settle this debate

 

[Jonk]

Good idea. We can have ray peat forum ultimate fighting tournament and then send are toe clippings to haidut to analyze for dht and test levels and finally settle this debate

It has to be done.

 

[Risingfire]

*Yawn* You're so boring man

Thats the best you got man?

You're nobody man, no one knows who you are or cares about who you are and when you walk down the street, people don't even know you're there

I am innocent man, that's what having a healthy metabolism is about - being a genuine human being (which comes across as innocent), its the opposite of being a piece of trash human being (you), its funny that you read so much books and studies on metabolic stuff yet your metabolism is horrendously bad and you're not a good person to be around.

You're projecting again kid, you say I'm a broken record yet the only thing you're fixated on is my IQ or whatever, you literally say nothing else.

You're like those nerds I went to high school with who have no success in ANY aspect of their life except for reading and studying, you're not charismatic or good with people and you can't talk to girls either.

But the way you cope with it is like "Oh, but at least I'm smart", yea it doesn't matter man, no man (or woman) will ever respect you, any girlfriend or wife you have in the future will have 0 respect for you and use you as her bank account (rightfully so) and behind your back? She'll reserve genuine love and affection for a genuine dude who is the complete opposite of you

Na I didn't cry - I was just wondering why someone would tell another dude to cut his balls off as a joke when he's asking for help. you actually aren't strong enough to make me cry man, you're on Level 1, you're just a hater kid, you're fixated on me, I'm not fixated on you

I do cry sometimes, over people that are important to me in my life and real-life situations, but you aren't important... at all, not to me or to anyone so I don't care to think about you like that.

Yea you prefer my responses to be public because you know I would ABSOLUTELY DESTROY YOU and ABSOLUTELY pummel your existence into the dust mite you are if we were to talk privately, Luckily for you my desire to not get banned is a lot stronger than literally any insult you can cook up (your insults aren't that great man).

You didn't get any payback man - you're just a hater that won't hop off me that I needed to check - you really think you're somebody to me and I really don't care about you and I really don't think about you... at all

Yea you're not bullying me kid, keep dreaming. You're a kid half my size, thats throwing me his best shots in the ring but it's not fazing me at all and if I used probably 10% of my brain power to cook up a real insult for you, you would be flattened like a pancake. I literally don't care about you because you're like an ant or a fly that keeps buzzing near my ear, I don't care enough to dedicate enough energy to destroy you publicly and risk getting banned, but if you want to speak to me privately, I would make you cry, and I would make you feel probably some of the worst emotional pain you've ever went through.

Make you proud? I'm YOUR DAD man, I fathered you and you've brought me nothing but disappointment and I'm glad I exited your life to buy milk when you were 6 years old.

I'm above you kid, in every way possible and that's the sad truth. The fact of the matter is, in Nature and in the real world there is definitely such thing as superior genetic/epi-genetic quality and you don't have it so you cope with it by reading books/studies all day.

I'm YOUR DAD

I was at the hospital when the nurses delivered you and I decided what vaccines you got as a baby.

I still love your Mother and I hope she's doing well.

You are my child and you have brought disgrace upon yourself.

Take the conversation private or you're not a real man,

I'm YOUR DAD, Don't ever forget that

This is really strange...

 

[porkrindpirate]

This is really strange...

This entire thread is just JamesGatz trolling. I don't believe he's being authentic in his OP, and I think he's either taking a lot of stimulants (too much coffee, or abusing adderall, maybe both) or extremely dedicated to his bit. The whole concept of hormones dictating one's fighting style and ability is a laughable shitpost. Of course, most people on RPF will take it seriously because this forum is their singular source of discourse and the associations they make on it are their identity. The fact that people took his bait as intensely as they did is just icing on his cake.

I see this kind of very focused, effectively scripted type of response on 4chan/2ch a lot. You get this thing where the OP is a prolific poster, gets addicted to the (You)'s and makes up arguments specifically for attention. The benefit of doing it on anonymous forums is it's harder to get banned, the disadvantage is it's harder to curate the responses and total portfolio of shitposts. To put a genuine spin on this original question, the answer is 'whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike'. There's no rule for who is a better fighter from a hormonal perspective. Trying to assign hormone value to something as abstract as fighting ability is such a hilarious Peat forum stretch. The more time I spend browsing this site the more I find psychosis, especially among the most prolific posters.

ACKSHUALLY KHABIB ATE MORE BEAR FAT AND LESS FISH AS A CHILD THUS HIS LIFELONG SAMBO + WRESTLING BACKGROUND IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE HE IS HIGH T LOW DHT BLAH BLAH BLAH like get a ******* grip dude he's dominant because that's who he is by way of his entire life revolving around combat sports. Not specifically because of his diet and hormone profile. How do you compare Daniel Cormier's hormones to GSP's? Does it matter? No. Their backgrounds and training and personality types have a greater impact on their fighting ability than their hormones. This thread sucks and I am contributing to the problem by posting a comment, but oh well!

 

[Jonk]

This entire thread is just JamesGatz trolling. I don't believe he's being authentic in his OP, and I think he's either taking a lot of stimulants (too much coffee, or abusing adderall, maybe both) or extremely dedicated to his bit. The whole concept of hormones dictating one's fighting style and ability is a laughable shitpost. Of course, most people on RPF will take it seriously because this forum is their singular source of discourse and the associations they make on it are their identity. The fact that people took his bait as intensely as they did is just icing on his cake.

I see this kind of very focused, effectively scripted type of response on 4chan/2ch a lot. You get this thing where the OP is a prolific poster, gets addicted to the (You)'s and makes up arguments specifically for attention. The benefit of doing it on anonymous forums is it's harder to get banned, the disadvantage is it's harder to curate the responses and total portfolio of shitposts. To put a genuine spin on this original question, the answer is 'whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike'. There's no rule for who is a better fighter from a hormonal perspective. Trying to assign hormone value to something as abstract as fighting ability is such a hilarious Peat forum stretch. The more time I spend browsing this site the more I find psychosis, especially among the most prolific posters.

ACKSHUALLY KHABIB ATE MORE BEAR FAT AND LESS FISH AS A CHILD THUS HIS LIFELONG SAMBO + WRESTLING BACKGROUND IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE HE IS HIGH T LOW DHT BLAH BLAH BLAH like get a ******* grip dude he's dominant because that's who he is by way of his entire life revolving around combat sports. Not specifically because of his diet and hormone profile. How do you compare Daniel Cormier's hormones to GSP's? Does it matter? No. Their backgrounds and training and personality types have a greater impact on their fighting ability than their hormones. This thread sucks and I am contributing to the problem by posting a comment, but oh well!

Even though it may be an oversimplified question, we know that hormones are closely related to how we live - how we train, eat and recover, and so on. I don't get why it would be that absurd to think there can be different hormonal profiles - e.g. extreme exercise without enough recovery, leading to high aromatase expression. We know for a fact training regimens and recovery between western and eastern cultures are different. Khabib Nurmagomedov slept between every training session for example.

To put a genuine spin on this original question, the answer is 'whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike'.

These are important aspects of fighting but they are exceedingly less likely a deciding factor in the absolute elite.

No. Their backgrounds and training and personality types have a greater impact on their fighting ability than their hormones. This thread sucks and I am contributing to the problem by posting a comment, but oh well!

You don't think their backgrounds, training and personality types have a direct involvement in their hormonal profile, and vice versa?

 

[Risingfire]

This entire thread is just JamesGatz trolling. I don't believe he's being authentic in his OP, and I think he's either taking a lot of stimulants (too much coffee, or abusing adderall, maybe both) or extremely dedicated to his bit. The whole concept of hormones dictating one's fighting style and ability is a laughable shitpost. Of course, most people on RPF will take it seriously because this forum is their singular source of discourse and the associations they make on it are their identity. The fact that people took his bait as intensely as they did is just icing on his cake.

I see this kind of very focused, effectively scripted type of response on 4chan/2ch a lot. You get this thing where the OP is a prolific poster, gets addicted to the (You)'s and makes up arguments specifically for attention. The benefit of doing it on anonymous forums is it's harder to get banned, the disadvantage is it's harder to curate the responses and total portfolio of shitposts. To put a genuine spin on this original question, the answer is 'whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike'. There's no rule for who is a better fighter from a hormonal perspective. Trying to assign hormone value to something as abstract as fighting ability is such a hilarious Peat forum stretch. The more time I spend browsing this site the more I find psychosis, especially among the most prolific posters.

ACKSHUALLY KHABIB ATE MORE BEAR FAT AND LESS FISH AS A CHILD THUS HIS LIFELONG SAMBO + WRESTLING BACKGROUND IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE HE IS HIGH T LOW DHT BLAH BLAH BLAH like get a ******* grip dude he's dominant because that's who he is by way of his entire life revolving around combat sports. Not specifically because of his diet and hormone profile. How do you compare Daniel Cormier's hormones to GSP's? Does it matter? No. Their backgrounds and training and personality types have a greater impact on their fighting ability than their hormones. This thread sucks and I am contributing to the problem by posting a comment, but oh well!

You def have a point but I believe he posted this to make himself feel better about being fat. Probably fantasizes about being a fighter or something along those lines.

 

[porkrindpirate]

Even though it may be an oversimplified question, we know that hormones are closely related to how we live - how we train, eat and recover, and so on. I don't get why it would be that absurd to think there can be different hormonal profiles - e.g. extreme exercise without enough recovery, leading to high aromatase expression. We know for a fact training regimens and recovery between western and eastern cultures are different. Khabib Nurmagomedov slept between every training session for example.


These are important aspects of fighting but they are exceedingly less likely a deciding factor in the absolute elite.


You don't think their backgrounds, training and personality types have a direct involvement in their hormonal profile, and vice versa?

My point is that the hormone profile is not the determining factor - the hormone profile is a result of lifestyle, diet, and training choices as much as genetic disposition. Diet, lifestyle, and training choices are decidedly not directly influenced by hormone levels. There are people with whom I train BJJ who have very poor diets, genetics, likely compromised hormone ratios etc who can wipe the floor with me because they've chosen to train more in their life and apply fundamentals in a more effective way than I can. Same with shooting sports. Some of the better shooters I know in sport shooting are physically/hormonally compromised, but can still execute fundamentals on command based on their training regimens. This whole 'hormones define behavior defines hormones defines competency' cyclical supposition is flawed. The OP is a poorly posed question by a schizophrenic.

Also, I strongly disagree that "whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike" are less important than hormone ratios. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't believe that you would hold that opinion if you trained to fight or compete in some physical sport yourself, especially one not measured by absolutes. 100m sprint is more defined by hormones and genes than 'time spent training to run 100m' certainly. Fighting is not running.

 

[porkrindpirate]

You def have a point but I believe he posted this to make himself feel better about being fat. Probably fantasizes about being a fighter or something along those lines.

He's absolutely projecting something, I don't think it's a serious LARP as a fighter. Going through his extensive history of posting inflammatory, often irrelevant responses to any number of threads on this forum, he's just found another concept he can troll and farm responses from.

 

[area51puy]

My point is that the hormone profile is not the determining factor - the hormone profile is a result of lifestyle, diet, and training choices as much as genetic disposition. Diet, lifestyle, and training choices are decidedly not directly influenced by hormone levels. There are people with whom I train BJJ who have very poor diets, genetics, likely compromised hormone ratios etc who can wipe the floor with me because they've chosen to train more in their life and apply fundamentals in a more effective way than I can. Same with shooting sports. Some of the better shooters I know in sport shooting are physically/hormonally compromised, but can still execute fundamentals on command based on their training regimens. This whole 'hormones define behavior defines hormones defines competency' cyclical supposition is flawed. The OP is a poorly posed question by a schizophrenic.

Also, I strongly disagree that "whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike" are less important than hormone ratios. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't believe that you would hold that opinion if you trained to fight or compete in some physical sport yourself, especially one not measured by absolutes. 100m sprint is more defined by hormones and genes than 'time spent training to run 100m' certainly. Fighting is not running.

If the question was all other things being equal. Someone with high dht and mid test levels vs someone with high test and mid dht.

One of the most important factors is size and that why fighting sports and broke up in weight classes jon Jones partying and doing cocaine with hooker would wipe the floor vs khabib who was training his **** off for months.

 

[porkrindpirate]

If the question was all other things being equal. Someone with high dht and mid test levels vs someone with high test and mid dht.

One of the most important factors is size and that why fighting sports and broke up in weight classes jon Jones partying and doing cocaine with hooker would wipe the floor vs khabib who was training his **** off for months.

OK but surely you can understand how pointless the question is, because people do not punch eachother simultaneously with the same arm from the same distance away with the same body weight with the same number of minutes, hours, years spent training etc. It's not a useful question. It's not productive. If you pose it in a non-stupid way, like 'which of two identical twins, controlling for every other conceivable and reasonably controllable factor of daily life, might live longer if they are opposites in DHT and Testosterone profiles'. There are far too many complex, uncontrollable components to the 'which would win a fight' to make it a useful indicator of overall health.

This absolutism is part of the reason that Peatisms will continue becoming mainstream and continue losing credibility. When you have dorks make absolute statements of 'carrot salad thyroid mexican coke' for every conceivable deficiency and malady, you lose any meaning. Too much static, too many sweeping generalizations. 'High test vs high DHT who wins????'..... stupid.

 

[Veritas IV]

Good idea. We can have ray peat forum ultimate fighting tournament and then send are toe clippings to haidut to analyze for dht and test levels and finally settle this debate

We may be underestimating the power of serotogenic rage along with estrogenic shock and awe, and the role that excess cortisol can play in both.

 

[JamesGatz]

He's absolutely projecting something, I don't think it's a serious LARP as a fighter. Going through his extensive history of posting inflammatory, often irrelevant responses to any number of threads on this forum, he's just found another concept he can troll and farm responses from.

What am I projecting man ? Please tell me

Everything to know about me is in the public domain - I LITERALLY have nothing to hide except for a few health secrets that I'll never reveal to the forum but PLEASE TELL ME what am I projecting, You got extensive analyzations on me man - not accurate but I do enjoy it

 

[JamesGatz]

You def have a point but I believe he posted this to make himself feel better about being fat. Probably fantasizes about being a fighter or something along those lines.

I don't fantasize about being a fighter man, I AM a fighter man, Anytime, anywhere, anyone, Anyone that looks at me FUNNY could GET IT, Let's go!

 

[JamesGatz]

This entire thread is just JamesGatz trolling. I don't believe he's being authentic in his OP, and I think he's either taking a lot of stimulants (too much coffee, or abusing adderall, maybe both) or extremely dedicated to his bit. The whole concept of hormones dictating one's fighting style and ability is a laughable shitpost. Of course, most people on RPF will take it seriously because this forum is their singular source of discourse and the associations they make on it are their identity. The fact that people took his bait as intensely as they did is just icing on his cake.

I see this kind of very focused, effectively scripted type of response on 4chan/2ch a lot. You get this thing where the OP is a prolific poster, gets addicted to the (You)'s and makes up arguments specifically for attention. The benefit of doing it on anonymous forums is it's harder to get banned, the disadvantage is it's harder to curate the responses and total portfolio of shitposts. To put a genuine spin on this original question, the answer is 'whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike'. There's no rule for who is a better fighter from a hormonal perspective. Trying to assign hormone value to something as abstract as fighting ability is such a hilarious Peat forum stretch. The more time I spend browsing this site the more I find psychosis, especially among the most prolific posters.

ACKSHUALLY KHABIB ATE MORE BEAR FAT AND LESS FISH AS A CHILD THUS HIS LIFELONG SAMBO + WRESTLING BACKGROUND IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE HE IS HIGH T LOW DHT BLAH BLAH BLAH like get a ******* grip dude he's dominant because that's who he is by way of his entire life revolving around combat sports. Not specifically because of his diet and hormone profile. How do you compare Daniel Cormier's hormones to GSP's? Does it matter? No. Their backgrounds and training and personality types have a greater impact on their fighting ability than their hormones. This thread sucks and I am contributing to the problem by posting a comment, but oh well!

Who is 4chan? I NEVER HEARD of this guy, BING BONG

You sound like you take life too serious man... LIGHTEN UP man, its ok to Laugh sometimes man

 

[Jonk]

There are far too many complex, uncontrollable components to the 'which would win a fight' to make it a useful indicator of overall health.

This absolutism is part of the reason that Peatisms will continue becoming mainstream and continue losing credibility. When you have dorks make absolute statements of 'carrot salad thyroid mexican coke' for every conceivable deficiency and malady, you lose any meaning. Too much static, too many sweeping generalizations. 'High test vs high DHT who wins????'..... stupid.

Sure I tend to agree with the sentiment we shouldn't oversimplify everything, but sometimes it can give interesting insights, or just be a funny thought experiment. A different example, sugar vs fat as energy substrate. We can have a discussion about which one is a better substrate but everyone should also know there's layers and layers and layers to the topic. Some people are going to parrot things like randle cycle, or ketone production, or whatever, without having a somewhat broad knowledge about it, but that doesn't discredit generalizations.

Also, I strongly disagree that "whomever has trained more, has a bigger gas tank, and whomever lands the first meaningful strike" are less important than hormone ratios.

I didn't claim that they are less important than hormone ratios, I said they are exceedingly less a deciding factor in the absolute elite. It's just that when you look at title fights in the UFC for example, in modern time, everyone is expected to go five rounds no problem, everyone trains super hard and lands hard shots. In the end what's the deciding factor is harder and harder to predict, why hormones might be an interesting avenue to think about. I do think however that even that avenue gets lost somewhat when there's PED's involved, like EPO for endurance.

 

[Jonk]

I don't fantasize about being a fighter man, I AM a fighter man, Anytime, anywhere, anyone, Anyone that looks at me FUNNY could GET IT, Let's go!

View: https://youtu.be/nTb6eJl1yRU?t=58

 

[maxpower]

I had trouble sleeping last night so I went for a walk at 3AM and as I'm walking back to my house, I spot a dude getting JUMPED by like 5 other guys right across the street from where I'm walking,

It was crazy to see and I felt bad for the dude, but I didn't have my phone on me so I couldn't call the cops and I was like 20 minutes away from my house - I couldn't do anything so I just kept walking

The dude was High Testosterone and I was High DHT, thats the difference between T and DHT guys - High Testosterone guys get JUMPED and High DHT guys WATCH GUYS get jumped, so I will continue shooting up DHT

How you shooting your DHT up, can you share your best new ways thanks

 

[feedandseed]

I'VE TAKEN BOTH MAN -

BRO no joke I am TOP 3 - HIGHEST DHT, LOW-STRESS males on this forum I PROMISE YOU THAT

I KNOW WHAT HIGH DHT FEELS LIKE

A LOT OF GUYS ON THIS FORUM DONT HAVE A CLUE WHAT HIGH DHT FEELS LIKE

Frankly, I'd like to see bloodwork, because to me you read as high E2. (Aggressive, illogical, argumentative)