Why isn't this thread about Cocoa a bigger deal?

[charlie]

Whole blood Zinc or storage Zinc was very high, out of range.
I didn't touch zinc supplement since

That's a good move.

 

[Bozidar]

That's a good move.

Can I ask you something else.
I find your stances on certain things very controversial as compared to what most people think.

I wonder what do you think about very high content of K2 mk7 on my blood test?
It was also way above upper range. I did supplement it a lot in the past.

Also what made me even more concerned, manganese on the blood test was way above upper reference range. I never supplemented that one.
I know there is a known toxicity with it, but I don't know how did I get there and is it actually affecting me.

Thanks

 

[charlie]

I wonder what do you think about very high content of K2 mk7 on my blood test?
It was also way above upper range. I did supplement it a lot in the past.

Also what made me even more concerned, manganese on the blood test was way above upper reference range. I never supplemented that one.
I know there is a known toxicity with it, but I don't know how did I get there and is it actually affecting me.

This makes me think the liver is compromised and is not clearing things like it should. Which then leads me to believe "vitamin A" toxicity and likely copper toxicity are involved.

 

[youngsinatra]

High Mn can be a sign of a sluggish liver, as Mn is excreted primarily through the bile.

 

[Bozidar]

High Mn can be a sign of a sluggish liver, as Mn is excreted primarily through the bile.

What do you think why would someone have a sluggish liver?
Two months ago, I have done ultrasound, doctor said everything looks great. Liver, gallbladder, gallbladder ducts. Perfect.

 

[youngsinatra]

What do you think why would someone have a sluggish liver?
Two months ago, I have done ultrasound, doctor said everything looks great. Liver, gallbladder, gallbladder ducts. Perfect.

My ultrasound also showed perfectly healthy liver, gallbladder, bile ducts. But my gallbladder was very full. Even after 2 cups of black coffee that morning. I also had elevated bilirubin for as long as I can remember. At least since 5 years on all the labs that measured it. Also developed elevated ALT/AST plus liver pains, digestive issues, fat malabsorption, lightly colored stools…

I think I had biliary dyskinesia. It when the gallbladder does not secrete/empty itself out very well. It’s a functional disorder, not a direct pathological issue like gallstones.

 

[Bozidar]

My ultrasound also showed perfectly healthy liver, gallbladder, bile ducts. But my gallbladder was very full. Even after 2 cups of black coffee that morning. I also had elevated bilirubin for as long as I can remember. At least since 5 years on all the labs that measured it. Also developed elevated ALT/AST plus liver pains, digestive issues, fat malabsorption, lightly colored stools…

I think I had biliary dyskinesia. It when the gallbladder does not secrete/empty itself out very well. It’s a functional disorder, not a direct pathological issue like gallstones.

I myself also had elevated bilirubin since ever, but only direct or conjugated.
By doctors estimate I have Wilson's disease if I recall well. I would agree its the most likely thing.
But I never had any other enzymes elevated.
High direct bilirubin also showed up normal sometimes. I find that strange. Mostly high, but sometimes normal.

On the end, did you do something about it and did it work? Is it better now?

 

[youngsinatra]

I myself also had elevated bilirubin since ever, but only direct or conjugated.
By doctors estimate I have Wilson's disease if I recall well. I would agree its the most likely thing.
But I never had any other enzymes elevated.
High direct bilirubin also showed up normal sometimes. I find that strange. Mostly high, but sometimes normal.

On the end, did you do something about it and did it work? Is it better now?

Interesting. Have you gotten liver biopsy and/or genetic testing for Wilson‘s?

 

[Bozidar]

Interesting. Have you gotten liver biopsy and/or genetic testing for Wilson‘s?

No, that would be a bit to much for me to bother with. I have researched all possibilities known to medicine today and I rulled out everything, even Wilson's. I don't remember now why exactly. It thing because it said that Wilson's has also elevated complete bilirubin together with direct. But not indirect.
I could be wrong about that...I forgot my thought process from few months ago.

Then the liver doctor assured me that this is most likely Wilson's and it doesn't have to show complete bilirubin high because the only reason why complete bilirubin is high is because of very high direct bilirubin, and most people have mild case of it so direct bilirubin does not "spill over" onto complete bilirubin on test numbers.
I don't know if you understand what I mean?
Indirect stays always low, but direct is not high enough to raise complete bilirubin over upper reference range.

Its kind of hazy in my head what did we speak about.
I quit searching further. Its Wilson's. Haha

 

[FitnessMike]

lightly colored stools…

when my thyroid hormones runs low, stool turns pale with visible undigested food too.

 

[youngsinatra]

when my thyroid hormones runs low, stool turns pale with visible undigested food too.

Yes low thyroid can also impair bile flow significantly. (it can cause cholestasis)

 

[Philomath]

Cocoa will put you on the fast track to copper toxicity hell. If you crave chocolate then that is a sign you are copper toxic.

Maybe the copper “toxicity” is a problem of estrogen overload…

“…Another example of the role of estrogenic substances in catalytic oxidation is their effect upon plasma copper transport and ceruloplasmin. In both normal volunteers and in certain cancer patients, it has been found that the ceruloplasmin level increases two to eight times ahove normal following stilbestrol administration (55).”

Redirecting

 

[charlie]

Maybe the copper “toxicity” is a problem of estrogen overload…

Yes, copper is estrogenic.

 

[Philomath]

Yes, copper is estrogenic.

Thats the preverbal “which came first, the chicken or the egg” question. Does excess estrogen cause cooper overload/toxicity, or is too much copper estrogenic? If your estrogen is low, or appropriate, can you even get overloaded with copper (without massive supplementation)?
The way I interpreted the study is that too much estrogen causes overload and toxicity.

 

[Peater]

Thats the preverbal “which came first, the chicken or the egg” question. Does excess estrogen cause cooper overload/toxicity, or is too much copper estrogenic? If your estrogen is low, or appropriate, can you even get overloaded with copper (without massive supplementation)?
The way I interpreted the study is that too much estrogen causes overload and toxicity.

Yes - And...a liver burdened with excess retinol possibly won't remove estrogen effectively!