Why isn't this thread about Cocoa a bigger deal?

[Mauritio]

I bought cacao extract only because I couldn't find pure theobromine so I suppose cacao extract is going to have a lot of it.
It probably has other compounds increased by concentration as opposed to just plain cacao, but I bought it because of theobromine.
Yes, theobromine is xanthine.
If I drink just coffee, it gives me a terrible come down few hours later, but if I take cacao extract with it, comedown does not happen.

I have also bought Theacrine and Dynamine which are all similar. I am yet to try them out.
Found out about all of that from cortex labs guy on youtube.

Which brand is your cacao extract from?
Cacao also contains a lot of C3G so that might be what helps you as well.

Btw iherb carries a theobromine supplemebt by Nutricost.

 

[High_Prob]

I bought cacao extract only because I couldn't find pure theobromine so I suppose cacao extract is going to have a lot of it.
It probably has other compounds increased by concentration as opposed to just plain cacao, but I bought it because of theobromine.
Yes, theobromine is xanthine.
If I drink just coffee, it gives me a terrible come down few hours later, but if I take cacao extract with it, comedown does not happen.

I have also bought Theacrine and Dynamine which are all similar. I am yet to try them out.
Found out about all of that from cortex labs guy on youtube.

Ha ha…Ryan Michael Ballow from Cortex Labs is awwwwwesome.

 

[Dave Clark]

Why did he not recommend it, when he spoke positively about it?

My question too. But, I have seen Peat prevaricate quite frequently about different things. Peat definitely would throw the baby out with the bath water on different foods/compounds. Just let something have a modicum of PUFA, or estrogen, and you can forget about thousands of years of evidence showing that it was helpful, or studies showing scientific evidence that subjects were healthier.
And, there are some people here that think that when large amounts of something are bad, so are small amounts. Sometimes they are, but then that theory can't be superimposed on everything, because it just is not the case in many cases. Suffice to say, a 'reasonable' consumption of cacao is going to have more benefits than 'no' consumption, the science shows that., copper or no copper.

 

[LucyL]

Why did he not recommend it, when he spoke positively about it?

Maybe he was concerned about it's contamination? Cocoa is heavily contaminated and Peat often worried about contamination in supplements and foods.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6550414/

Cocoa Powders Found To Contain A Toxic Metal

www.prevention.com

 

[Mauritio]

I noticed that many centenarians were heavy chocolate consumers.

 

[LucyL]

Both. A low toxin and low "vitamin A" diet should be red meat centered. And from what Dr. Garrett Smith is seeing we need supplemental zinc picolinate on top of it. However, some people need to go slow on both read meat and zinc in the beginning due to being so copper toxic. You just need to see how you get along with them. There were times I could not even handle the zinc in beef as it would push on copper so hard and make me uncomfortable.

Zinc supplementation, even very low dose, makes me nauseous. Could that be because of high copper?

 

[charlie]

Zinc supplementation, even very low dose, makes me nauseous. Could that be because of high copper?

Yes it would be highly suspect. What kind of zinc are you using? Some people cannot even handle 1mg of zinc because they are so copper toxic.

 

[Bozidar]

Which brand is your cacao extract from?
Cacao also contains a lot of C3G so that might be what helps you as well.

Btw iherb carries a theobromine supplemebt by Nutricost.

I bought it from Mind Nutrition Ltd. England based company.
I actually have seen theobromine from Nutricost, but it was a new thing and still not available and it also has fillers.
These guys from Mind Nutrition are top notch. You can design your own supplement. Either in pills or powder. No fillers.

Ha ha…Ryan Michael Ballow from Cortex Labs is awwwwwesome.

+1 :)

 

[Mauritio]

"The present study demonstrated that theobromine improved NAFLD by inhibiting lipogenesis and fatty acid uptake and promoting fatty acid oxidation in the liver and hepatocytes, which might be associated with its suppression of mTOR signaling pathway. Novelty: Theobromine protects against high-fat diet - induced NAFLD. Theobromine inhibits lipogenesis and fatty acid uptake and promotes fatty acid oxidation in the liver and hepatocytes via inhibiting mTOR signaling pathway."

Theobromine ameliorates nonalcoholic fatty liver disease by regulating hepatic lipid metabolism via mTOR signaling pathway in vivo and in vitro - PubMed

Theobromine, a methylxanthine present in cocoa, has been shown to possess many beneficial pharmacological properties such as anti-oxidative stress, anti-inflammatory property, and anti-microbial activity. In this study, we investigated the effects of theobromine on nonalcoholic fatty liver...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Bozidar]

Yes it would be highly suspect. What kind of zinc are you using? Some people cannot even handle 1mg of zinc because they are so copper toxic.

I was taking Zinc orotate 100mg every single day for about a year. I had no nausea.
On the other hand when I supplemented with 2mg Copper first 3 times I felt awesome and every next time gave me a bit nausea.

 

[charlie]

I was taking Zinc orotate 100mg every single day for about a year. I had no nausea.
On the other hand when I supplemented with 2mg Copper first 3 times I felt awesome and every next time gave me a bit nausea.

Zinc picolinate is the way. All other forms of zinc has pretty much shown to be worthless in clinical practice.

 

[LucyL]

Yes it would be highly suspect. What kind of zinc are you using? Some people cannot even handle 1mg of zinc because they are so copper toxic.

Most recently I tried zinc glycinate at 25 mg. Takes about 3 days for the nausea to set in. I've also tried zinc picolinate (30mg), same story.

 

[Kimster]

For what it's worth, Dr. David Jockers a Functional Medicine Chiropractor has these links to Zinc testing levels at home, etc.

You searched for zinc - DrJockers.com

drjockers.com

and Morley Robinson wrote a whole book on Copper his website: Morley Robbins - The Root Cause Protocol
Morley reads scientific papers non-stop and has a photographic memory like Haidut.

 

[Elie]

Complex 4 can't be a protection mechanism unless what we learn in biochemistry is false, that it is the most productive ATP generation site in the mitochondria.
If complex 4 and its component cytochrome C doesn't require copper for its activity then we need to see evidence to that effect.

 

[youngsinatra]

I was taking Zinc orotate 100mg every single day for about a year. I had no nausea.
On the other hand when I supplemented with 2mg Copper first 3 times I felt awesome and every next time gave me a bit nausea.

Have you measured your serum/plasma zinc, serum copper and ceruloplasmin then and ever since?

I supplemented 25-50mg of zinc bisglycinate for 5-6 months on top of a red-meat-heavy diet and that caused a serious copper deficiency for me. I had symptoms that I thought was a serious neurological disease like MS + had extremely high blood pressure, extreme peripheral neuropathy, vision problems, vertigo etc. Also had hyperzincemia in the blood, hypocupremia, low ceruloplasmin.

Took me close to 2 years on a zinc-restricted diet alongside thyroid, B vitamins, electrolytes to normalize both serum zinc and copper. Now no symptoms of those anymore, perfect blood pressure etc.

I still cannot tolerate red meat unfortunately, because symptoms come back quickly and my blood work gets messed up again in a week or two. Never had any issue with red meat before I supplemented zinc. In fact I ate 600-800g of lean beef each day for 2-3 years straight before that.

Never again will touch that supplement. Just like vitamin A. Never.

PS: I do not encourage to eat Cu-rich foods or to take Cu supplements.

 

[charlie]

Complex 4 can't be a protection mechanism unless what we learn in biochemistry is false, that it is the most productive ATP generation site in the mitochondria.
If complex 4 and its component cytochrome C doesn't require copper for its activity then we need to see evidence to that effect.

I have seen plenty of evidence that lowering copper intake makes life better. Dr. Garrett Smith who has clinical practice is also seeing the same.

I supplemented 25-50mg of zinc bisglycinate for 5-6 months on top of a red-meat-heavy diet and that caused a serious copper deficiency for me. I had symptoms that I thought was a serious neurological disease like MS + had extremely high blood pressure, extreme peripheral neuropathy, vision problems, vertigo etc. Also had hyperzincemia in the blood, hypocupremia, low ceruloplasmin.

Sounds like possible copper toxicity on top of zinc toxicity. I got the same symptoms from copper toxicity except the vertigo. Dr. Smith has said he has never seen one real case of copper deficiency in all his years of clinical practice. He has seen plenty of cases of zinc toxicity.

 

[charlie]

The linked post below is very relevant to this thread:

Low Toxin Lifestyle - Fibromyalgia & Rheumatoid Arthritis is Copper Toxicity, It is Not Caused by Estrogen

Dr. Purser found in his practice that Fibromyalgia is simply copper toxicity. He also found the way to test for copper toxicity which you can learn in the video below. The standard blood test will not show copper toxicity very well. When I have more time I will watch it again and post the three...

raypeatforum.com

 

[RealNeat]

As mentioned earlier most cacao is contaminated with lead and cadmium unfortunately.

good contaminant free options Chocolate Chips, Cocoa Powder, Brownie, & Cake Mix -- Safest Products Guide

Theobromine has also been shown to be beneficial to teeth remineralization especially in tandem with something like natural MCHA. Could chocolate replace toothpaste? - British Dental Journal.

 

[charlie]

Have you measured your serum/plasma zinc, serum copper and ceruloplasmin then and ever since?

I supplemented 25-50mg of zinc bisglycinate for 5-6 months on top of a red-meat-heavy diet and that caused a serious copper deficiency for me. I had symptoms that I thought was a serious neurological disease like MS + had extremely high blood pressure, extreme peripheral neuropathy, vision problems, vertigo etc. Also had hyperzincemia in the blood, hypocupremia, low ceruloplasmin.

Took me close to 2 years on a zinc-restricted diet alongside thyroid, B vitamins, electrolytes to normalize both serum zinc and copper. Now no symptoms of those anymore, perfect blood pressure etc.

I still cannot tolerate red meat unfortunately, because symptoms come back quickly and my blood work gets messed up again in a week or two. Never had any issue with red meat before I supplemented zinc. In fact I ate 600-800g of lean beef each day for 2-3 years straight before that.

Never again will touch that supplement. Just like vitamin A. Never.

PS: I do not encourage to eat Cu-rich foods or to take Cu supplements.

There are quite a few people in the low toxin groups that simply cannot handle beef because they are so copper toxic. I myself use to have issues with beef, now that I have depleted my copper to a certain extent, I do not have issues with it anymore.

 

[Bozidar]

Zinc picolinate is the way. All other forms of zinc has pretty much shown to be worthless in clinical practice.

@youngsinatra
I did test Zinc exactly one year ago.
Whole blood Zinc or storage Zinc was very high, out of range.
I didn't touch zinc supplement since