Why T3 Have No Effect?

[gilson dantas]

I have used t3 [Tyronene], topical use, and I observe that the temperature does not change;
Even repeating the dose [1 drop = 8 mcg T3] 2 hours later nothing changes;
Repeating again and nothing changes; I am afraid of to increase the dose and surpass the physiological dose. Any suggestion about it? Any explanation of what might be happening?

 

[tara]

Transdermal or oral?

 

[gilson dantas]

Transdermal or oral?

Sorry: transdermal.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Mine doesn't change either. But I feel better with it. It's subtle.

 

[Queequeg]

Are you using T4 as well? I just listened to an RP interview were he said T3 alone can cause issues and actually turn of your thyroid

 

[DaveFoster]

Mine doesn't change either. But I feel better with it. It's subtle.

That's great to know, hamster. Thanks for sharing! I have good temps and pulse, but I still have dysthymia (slow, very minor-grade depression), so I'm thinking about adding in a low dose of thyroid.

Are you still using T3-only; if so what's your dose?

 

[Pointless]

I was using 150 mcg T3 for a while to get an effect. It was split into two doses. But then that stopped working too.

Now I use 3 grains of NDT in the morning. My temps have been going up considerably and range from 97.0 to 98.0. I'm going to increase the dose.

I think there's too much emphasis on increasing thyroid dose slowly and using small doses. If I use 1/4 - 1/2 grain of NDT without increasing the dose after 2-3 days, I will get COLDER.

I could be wrong about that, though, and as far as I know, Ray doesn't say that you can't increase your NDT dose by a grain at a time once or twice a week. From what I understand, we should be experimenting with different doses (within reason) and doing whatever improves our hypo symptoms. I've definitely made a lot of headway with my health since I stopped worrying about having an rT3 crisis.

 

[Wagner83]

I don't think you should use it topically on a regular basis, orally 8 mcg is way too much.

 

[Waynish]

I feel warmth all over my body within seconds of 1/4th drop of tyronene. Then the body temp seems lower than normal after about 30m.

 

[DaveFoster]

I was using 150 mcg T3 for a while to get an effect. It was split into two doses. But then that stopped working too.

Now I use 3 grains of NDT in the morning. My temps have been going up considerably and range from 97.0 to 98.0. I'm going to increase the dose.

I think there's too much emphasis on increasing thyroid dose slowly and using small doses. If I use 1/4 - 1/2 grain of NDT without increasing the dose after 2-3 days, I will get COLDER.

I could be wrong about that, though, and as far as I know, Ray doesn't say that you can't increase your NDT dose by a grain at a time once or twice a week. From what I understand, we should be experimenting with different doses (within reason) and doing whatever improves our hypo symptoms. I've definitely made a lot of headway with my health since I stopped worrying about having an rT3 crisis.

You obviously haven't experienced thyrotoxicosis. The fact that few people even follow the minimum 2-week delay in a T4 dose increase should raise some concern.

 

[schultz]

@gilson dantas I would take that orally instead of transdermally.

I don't think you should use it topically on a regular basis, orally 8 mcg is way too much.

If taken with food this dose it okay.

Dr. Ray Peat: "Well, sometimes if you're just in a temporary stress state, sometimes 10 micrograms will break the whole stress but if you're not that lucky and are going to need it for a longer time, then the body normally ideally should make four to five micrograms per hour of T3. And if you take all at once very much more than 10 micrograms, your liver activates enzymes for destroying it or excreting it, and so it goes away quickly as when you skip taking it. I experimented on myself taking 25 micrograms at a time and after two or three weeks of doing that, 12 hours later if I didn't take another dose I would go into a very intense hypothyroid state with my heart stopping every six seconds or so. And that would – 30 seconds after I took more T3 that would get regular again. But if you take your 10 micrograms with a meal, the food is going to delay its absorption so you get maybe two or 3 micrograms each hour and so 10 with each meal is pretty smooth way to take it. If a person…"

 

[schultz]

Are you using T4 as well? I just listened to an RP interview were he said T3 alone can cause issues and actually turn of your thyroid

Would you happen to remember which podcast that was? I am under the impression he thinks small doses throughout the day of T3 is okay.

 

[Wagner83]

@gilson dantas I would take that orally instead of transdermally.

If taken with food this dose it okay.

Dr. Ray Peat: "Well, sometimes if you're just in a temporary stress state, sometimes 10 micrograms will break the whole stress but if you're not that lucky and are going to need it for a longer time, then the body normally ideally should make four to five micrograms per hour of T3. And if you take all at once very much more than 10 micrograms, your liver activates enzymes for destroying it or excreting it, and so it goes away quickly as when you skip taking it. I experimented on myself taking 25 micrograms at a time and after two or three weeks of doing that, 12 hours later if I didn't take another dose I would go into a very intense hypothyroid state with my heart stopping every six seconds or so. And that would – 30 seconds after I took more T3 that would get regular again. But if you take your 10 micrograms with a meal, the food is going to delay its absorption so you get maybe two or 3 micrograms each hour and so 10 with each meal is pretty smooth way to take it. If a person…"

Ok thanks for the quote, I did not know food could play such a part.

Would you happen to remember which podcast that was? I am under the impression he thinks small doses throughout the day of T3 is okay.

I thought I heard him suggest t3 during the day and t3/t4 at night . I'm not sure what kind of meal he talks about though, would 50 cl of milk with some orange juice have the same effect as a kg of potatoes?

 

[Queequeg]

Would you happen to remember which podcast that was? I am under the impression he thinks small doses throughout the day of T3 is okay.

It was a Josh Rubin interview (East West Healing) but cant find it now. IIRC Ray was saying that if you just take T3, at night you will end up burning through your T3 because the half life is too short. You need T4 to allow the liver to help stabilize the amount of T3 in the body. I think he also said that T3 only may also shut down your thyroid but I'm a bit foggy on that part.

 

[gilson dantas]

Are you using T4 as well?

Yes. I use 3 drops of Tyromix [T4-T3 6:3] bedtime. Anyway I feel my thyroid is worse. My temperature rarely goes above 36 o.
And Tyronene [T3= 8 mcg] is just like water, doesn ´t change temperature. I don´t know what to do.

 

[ecstatichamster]

i found the Steve Richfield reset very useful

Temperature Reset à La Steve Richfield

I think some of us have fatty livers and lots of stored PUFAs and we need to warm ourselves up through other means than just thyroid.

 

[Queequeg]

Yes. I use 3 drops of Tyromix [T4-T3 6:3] bedtime. Anyway I feel my thyroid is worse. My temperature rarely goes above 36 o.
And Tyronene [T3= 8 mcg] is just like water, doesn ´t change temperature. I don´t know what to do.

That's good. I wonder though if that ratio is still too low. 3 drops of tyromix is 18 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3 plus say 2 drops tyronene 16 mcg or 18:25 or .72:1 ratio

I know thyroid supplementation is very individual and everyone has there own sweet spot but if that ratio is not working maybe try something new. I would start again from scratch with just tyromix alone and slowly move up to higher dosages. I think haidut recommend 12 drops as a good baseline.

 

[Mito]

Yes. I use 3 drops of Tyromix [T4-T3 6:3] bedtime. Anyway I feel my thyroid is worse. My temperature rarely goes above 36 o.
And Tyronene [T3= 8 mcg] is just like water, doesn ´t change temperature. I don´t know what to do.

Have you measured reverse T3? Reverse T3 interferes with active T3 suppressing thyroid function.

 

[LukeL]

You obviously haven't experienced thyrotoxicosis. The fact that few people even follow the minimum 2-week delay in a T4 dose increase should raise some concern.

"The fact that few people even follow the minimum 2-week delay in a T4 dose increase should raise some concern" - can you elaborate on this I haven't heard Ray talk about it

 

[docall18]

I have used t3 [Tyronene], topical use, and I observe that the temperature does not change;
Even repeating the dose [1 drop = 8 mcg T3] 2 hours later nothing changes;
Repeating again and nothing changes; I am afraid of to increase the dose and surpass the physiological dose. Any suggestion about it? Any explanation of what might be happening?

I have had the exact same issues with T3, T4, & NDT. I couldnt figure out why they didnt raise temps or only did it some days.

I finally figured out it was all related to endotoxin and intestinal issues.


As Ray said:
''Bacterial endotoxin is usually the basic problem causing hormone imbalance, by being a chronic burden for the liver, keeping it from storing enough sugar to process thyroid and the other hormones effectively.''


Try a diet of zero starch, zero pectins , zero latex containing fruit, zero OJ, few fruit (only dates initially if you can handle), low coffee intake for a few days, and monitor your temps and pulse.

I found this out when away on holidays. Due to limited options I was only eating shrimp, coke, cheese, honey, Hagen Daz ice-cream and raw carrots with coconut oil. I got a thyrotoxicosis for two day - couldnt sleep, very high temps & pulse.

Since then I can keep temps, pulse & energy high by watching my diet and using a reduced dose of NDT. If i take starch, OJ, many fruits, or poor quality milk my temps & pulse drop reliably.


Try starting off with just coke, sugar, honey, cheese, fresh milk, Hagen Daz ice cream, 1-2 cups of coffee, shrimp (no sauce) and dates for a couple of days to see if your temps increase. Also chew raw carrots with coconut oil daily(avoid vinegar), and try activated carbon every few days. Then slowly add in other foods monitoring their effect on temps.


Foods that increase endotoxin will cause liver issues, increased estrogen and cortisol and will lower temperatures.