Great post. Couldn't agree more.
+1, great insight
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Great post. Couldn't agree more.
+1I work as a male nurse. My supervisor, boss and bosses boss are females. My co-workers are females. My HR is all females and one gay guy. Most of the females are overweight, stressed out, and easily agitated. They exhibit the same behavoir that the OP mentioned and has been discussed. Whats interesting is that this is a female dominated environment yet the same charicteristic behavoirs are at play. To combat their behavoiur I make jokes and when theyre getting agitated I make slight fun of thier agitation such that if they get upset they have given into the joke and then they have lost in an ego sense. Works everytime, keeps everyone happy and allows them to realize that theyre just stressed out. I would say they react the way they do because of thier hormonal state more than some social pressure to be honest. They are overworked, have poor emotional intelligence and self awareness, have poor emotional regulation, have general low self esteem, low self regard, they eat terribly or not at all, they have children and families that they have to take care when they go home and theyre interpersonal relationships are somewhat toxic. I think they all have the possibility to be counter to everything above but they dont have the info, time, support, or energy to turn themselves around so they act out of their situation and vent thier pent up cumulative stress on the people around them. The thing is, atleast for me, once I understood this I was able to get along with them nicely and give them an ear to listen what they had to say or make the jokes that subtly put them in thier place when they began to display innapropriate behavoir by commonly accepted standards (the jokes are never mean though, only a slight push back to the behavoiur indicating a crossing of a boundary). The thing is I think most people are functioning under these same conditions. Its not just the women (I often see people pointing out specific groups). I think its all people. Everyone is under a squeeze by bills, laws, work, family obligations, health problems etc. And the only outlet for the pressure is sideways to other people when the real problems are from above and below. This coupled with the progressive fracturing of families and hence childrens upbringings and emotional development is only snowballing through the generations. I understand the initial reaction to outrageous behavour though, we all get the hair raised on the back of our necks when someone is being illogical and its directly effecting you.... The only thing you can do is manipulate your surroundings and people by controlling yourself (emotions and all) to effect the desired outcome (i’m still working on this, helps to think of it like a challenge, a puzzle to solve, as opposed to a barrier or obstacle).
Its not just the women (I often see people pointing out specific groups). I think its all people. Everyone is under a squeeze by bills, laws, work, family obligations, health problems etc. And the only outlet for the pressure is sideways to other people when the real problems are from above and below. This coupled with the progressive fracturing of families and hence childrens upbringings and emotional development is only snowballing through the generations.
Hello,
I've come across information on the forum about when young androgenic men clash with mature women with elevated estrogen and or on SSRI drugs and I experience this in my personal life and I think it would help if we could discuss this issue and seek some clarity as to what is going on in order for people to foresee and prevent altercations in communication in family and in work environments.
My personal experience is that these women are expressing a personality of authority, dominance, control, manipulative, patronising, condescending, passive aggressiveness, stubbornness, lack of empathy and compassion, inability to admit fault, inability to apologise, inability to express gratitude.
If this behaviour is expressed towards me I react strongly with aggressiveness and full adrenaline reaction as if I am under great threat and has occurred even if I am using progesterone and taking aspirin. I tend to get 'gas lighted' for my behaviour. This does not happen to me with men of all ages or young women healthy women.
I think it would be beneficial if we can speak about what is happening on a biological level and how to communicate with these kinds of women for the peace and harmony of humanity. I think it has to do with young androgenic men being dominant themselves and not wanting to submit and these women getting used to less androgenic men in society.
Perhaps people with greater knowledge and or experience could chime in.
WOW! I don't know where to start.
It could be what you said, or it just could be that you are a **** and every woman you get near can see it.
I wish more women would chime in, as these types of threads tend to turn into seemingly bitter men complaining about women. Sorry men if I am hurting your feelings.
Haven't you noticed? Fewer and fewer women participate in this forum and other RP groups because of blatant misogyny such as that expressed in this thread. Many of us have to form our own groups so that we can discuss Peat without being body shamed or condescended to or insulted or called crazy / hysterical / psycho or whatever the current term is that sexists use to silence women. It gets a little old seeing people cherry pick Peat's stuff and throw around isolated terms he uses to reinforce their divisive beliefs.
It's pretty ironic seeing how Peat dedicated much of his work to helping women and their physiology, and he has commented extensively on cultural factors that marginalize women.
You joined 2.5 years after I did. I don't know overall numbers but I can assure you that a lot of the women who were around in the earlier years have left. I don't contribute in the groups (not just this one) as much as I used to and I know many women who feel the same way.I notice more and more women here... Where's the evidence that they all left - perhaps the forum admins can share some stats?
I think @BenjaminBullock meant that older women are under a great influence from estrogen even though they technically have lower overall estrogen, this effect being due to a significantly lower progesterone level. Since progesterone isn't there to mitigate the action of estrogen then estrogen goes unopposed. This is what I tend to think people are talking about when they say older women have higher estrogen (sort of short hand for higher estrogen to progesterone ratio). Also tissue estrogen may be higher in older women since progesterone is what knocks it out of the tissue into the blood. Since progesterone is low, the estrogen stays active in the tissue yet shows up low in the bloodstream.
This is how I understand it so far from reading Ray's stuff, though my understanding of things keeps evolving as I learn more.
Really interesting topic. What I've come to think is that women are much more aimed towards fairness in everything. Fairness or equality depending on how you want to read it. What I see is that, when they are exerting an authoritarian stance, it is usually to enforce some sort of fairness as they perceive it. I don't think this is a bad trait at all. I think it can be quite excellent in an appropriate situation. It's great for bringing up children in which you want a fair playing field as much as possible to make sure each kid can develop well and to their potential or beyond. But there are certain extreme and obvious circumstance where you absolutely don't want fairness to be an issue, such as military endeavors or other things were competency matters to the point of meaning life or death (or success or failure in a business scenario). Of course, sometimes you just get mean people of any gender.
I not that long ago left working for a very large company with a very large, female-dominated HR department because it was getting impossible to get anything done without perfect circumstances. If I was on a project where no one wanted to be a problem, things went fine. But more often than not, there's always that person (or several) who is/are just there to get by and draw a paycheck, or even be a pain because they got some sick pleasure out of it and knew they could get away with it. On these project situations, you were screwed because you could not remove the person, you were forced 'involve' them and 'make things work for them' and you would be sent to training to 'learn' how to 'make them interested'. But it would never fix anything. That person would have to be treated 'fairly' at the expense of the whole project; they could not be held accountable. It would literally stop all progress while you wait on that person to be 'inspired' or 'engaged' to finally carry their part or whatever, which also never really happened. I saw projects run years behind and millions over budget due to this. It would have been better to remove the person and hire a consultant to fill their place. Most often, the situation was resolved by some of the (male) managers secretly setting up something to run around the problem person and get it done as side project that 'just so happened' so solve the problem in the other project that was the hold up and to keep HR happy.
I moved to a much smaller company with no HR department and a very masculine, semi-locker-room culture. ***t. Gets. Done. Competency is what rules and the environment is of can-do and make-it-happen, no excuses. Plus, all the guys, no matter what position/level are constantly busting on each other, not really mean-spiritedly, but as a way to keep things in line. There is no restriction on speech. It's like a way of subtly checking on each other, saying "hey, are you okay? You know I'm paying attention. I know you got this, and I'll get your back where I can, but if you don't, it's going to get done one way or another" but in crude terms to hide the fact that is what you are doing. It keeps everyone honest somehow. Despite lots of foul language, it's in an odd way the most professional environment I've worked in because everyone is basically held accountable. People that aren't doing anything or are bullshitters are quickly found out and fired. I quite like it. And, yeah, leaders naturally emerge as the people who can check on others, make sure they're getting the help they need, being honest, not taking too much crap, strengthening the team, and responding in a measured way to problems that arise, while also being competent themselves.
Yes. Having a hard time to function at work due to exactly this. Im curious, has it always been that way for you?
Good for you for trying to better yourself. I know so many men much older than me who have ruined their lives and careers because of their violence and hubris. Learning from other people's mistakes is good too.It happens once every few years, I just read Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg and The Art of seduction by Robert Greene, I have clearer understanding of this now and how to communicate more effectively to prevent these kind of situations from happening.
Taking the bait...I notice more and more women here... Where's the evidence that they all left - perhaps the forum admins can share some stats?
Adrenals...I talked to a guy at a health food store with a kid who had asthma and took adrenaline to manage it(the inhaler one). Kid was young, before puberty, already had body hair growth...They figured out why a lioness grew a mane, usually only domain of male lions (reason sounds Peaty, them stress hormones): "It turns out, despite veterinarians' expectations, Bridget's testosterone levels were perfectly normal, nearly identical to her sister Tia's. The source of the mane, D'Agostino said Tuesday, stemmed instead from significantly elevated levels of two other hormones: cortisol and androstenedione." https://www.ajc.com/news/zoo-figures-out-why-lioness-mysteriously-grew-mane/0gZVCuan4fSYfC1lOIbP6O/