animalcule
Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2019
- Messages
- 361
Recently, a very sincere 25 year old woman posted a personal ad on this forum. While many people were respectful and encouraging, a number of men made some rude/vulgar responses that are pretty typical in many alt forums, stating/implying things like: 25 year olds are too old to be attractive mates; women are too promiscuous in their youth and only want to settle down when they're 'used up' and no one wants them anymore, etc. These posters reek of arrogance, cynicism and disappointment (or sometimes, just foolishness) -- and they're happy to spread it around, with 'the truth hurts!' as the defense. I've frequented alt-type forums for over a decade, so this vein of thinking is not new to me, it's common (not shock posting as I think some ppl imagine it is), and there are obvious elements of truths behind it. Yes, our culture encourages women to be sexually 'liberated' and have many partners; people are encouraged to be at worst neutral about promiscuity; Women are most attractive/fertile in their early twenties, but are discouraged from getting married and having kids young; Women are encouraged to prioritize career and 'finding themselves' before settling down; Many women seem to 'wait too long' and never find anyone, or struggle with infertility if they get married in their 30s; By discouraging early, long term monogamy/marriage, our culture has created a dating game where men at the top can reap the benefit of commitment-free sex with many women, while men at the bottom get little to nothing. This is true. But this constant refrain that if a woman doesn't get married or have kids within the optimal window, this must be because she was a promiscuous/career woman who didn't prioritize finding a husband and settling down ... The older I get, and the more I experience in my own life and friends' lives, the more this rings untrue. I wonder if this refrain is just an echo of a previous era, when this might have been true of most unmarried, childless women, but a refrain that does not describe today's unmarried, childless women accurately at all - or at least not a large segment of them.
Many women I know hardly date at all. They have jobs/careers not because they're particularly ambitious, but because they're on their own and need them to survive. If anything, being ambitious and negotiating in the way you need to in order to rise in many careers is very difficult for many women. Jobs are stressful, crying is common, as is feeling lonely and isolated (even pre pandemic). They're the opposite of promiscuous. In some cases they've suffered a wounding or traumatic relationship/breakup in their early twenties, and it takes them years before they feel recovered from it and ready to date again. So 24 becomes 30, and those prime relationship building years of their lives are lost to them. Often the men they date have no interest in marriage -- maybe they should date more strategically, or aggressively, and vet potential dates for marriage immediately. Some women can do that. But many women just ... don't. Especially if they don't have a good network of people encouraging them in this way. I think there are a lot of atomized women out there, desperate for someone to which to attach themselves. So maybe they hang on to a bad boyfriend for 7 years, hoping it will turn into something better, but it never does. "That's her fault!" some may say. I say maybe it's just evidence of the instability of individualism. Or evidence of the necessity of good rituals and conventions. Promiscuity (as encouraged by hookup culture) does not come naturally to many women, but even a desire for long term monogamy is not enough if the culture does not encourage and support it and produce people capable of taking part in it.
As an example, there's a woman named Beatrice Caruso who has a YouTube channel that centers on her weight loss journey, but also dips into her day to day life, relationships, etc. She's 30 years old, but has been single for (I think) something like 4 years or so. IIRC, her last boyfriend dumped her and maybe also cheated on her, it was a bad breakup and evidently she's been unable to really recover from it and find someone new. She's kind hearted, sensitive, funny, and creative. She has a damaged relationship with her father, some problems with social anxiety and binge eating, and recently diagnosed ADHD (and possibly 'autism'). She had a stable job for years as a graphic designer, but recently quit due to feeling under appreciated and taken advantage of at work and being unable to negotiate for a deserved raise (among other things). You can tell she wants to be a good person, and she hates when her awkwardness sends people the wrong message. She is overweight, but I think she's beautiful. She is not promiscuous and 'used up.' She's a sweet, responsible woman who has worked to avoid the financial instability of her parents. She is not an ambitious career woman who has put career success over relationships. But she is single, and struggling to find someone, and, imo, much more representative of the average woman than the flashy, seductive, careerist woman trope we see on tv/movies/social media, the same trope that is still being dragged out to explain why so many women are unmarried, childless, and unhappy.
Millenials are not having a lot of sex. Gen Z is having even less. In this article, Gen Z-ers seem to have wised up to the fact that most casual sex is just being used: Gen Z Are “Puriteens,” But Not For The Reasons You Think
But does this mean that Gen Z will return to monogamy and early marriage? Maybe, but probably not. Given their rates of mental illness and sense of alienation I imagine they will tend towards celibacy over marriage. (If anyone has any info on this, that would appreciated, interested to see how this plays out) More and more people seem to be taking up the label of "autistic" due to symptoms that seem to reflect an inability to connect with others and function in the way modern life demands. I'm not a social person by any means, and it is really unnerving to think that my state of mind may become the norm soon. I'd rather be an outsider in a society of sane and stable social people, than a relative insider in a society of unhinged, disconnected, dysfunctional people (though the pandemic may have illuminated that that's already the case, hah...).
Women are less and less childless/unmarried as the result of promiscuity/career pursuits. I think it is a dying trope, and a scapegoat that will eventually crumble. Yes, some women follow this path. But more and more are leading lives that are the result of alienation, trauma, atomization, decaying mating rituals, and resulting celibacy. Similar things seem to be happening to men.
Many women I know hardly date at all. They have jobs/careers not because they're particularly ambitious, but because they're on their own and need them to survive. If anything, being ambitious and negotiating in the way you need to in order to rise in many careers is very difficult for many women. Jobs are stressful, crying is common, as is feeling lonely and isolated (even pre pandemic). They're the opposite of promiscuous. In some cases they've suffered a wounding or traumatic relationship/breakup in their early twenties, and it takes them years before they feel recovered from it and ready to date again. So 24 becomes 30, and those prime relationship building years of their lives are lost to them. Often the men they date have no interest in marriage -- maybe they should date more strategically, or aggressively, and vet potential dates for marriage immediately. Some women can do that. But many women just ... don't. Especially if they don't have a good network of people encouraging them in this way. I think there are a lot of atomized women out there, desperate for someone to which to attach themselves. So maybe they hang on to a bad boyfriend for 7 years, hoping it will turn into something better, but it never does. "That's her fault!" some may say. I say maybe it's just evidence of the instability of individualism. Or evidence of the necessity of good rituals and conventions. Promiscuity (as encouraged by hookup culture) does not come naturally to many women, but even a desire for long term monogamy is not enough if the culture does not encourage and support it and produce people capable of taking part in it.
As an example, there's a woman named Beatrice Caruso who has a YouTube channel that centers on her weight loss journey, but also dips into her day to day life, relationships, etc. She's 30 years old, but has been single for (I think) something like 4 years or so. IIRC, her last boyfriend dumped her and maybe also cheated on her, it was a bad breakup and evidently she's been unable to really recover from it and find someone new. She's kind hearted, sensitive, funny, and creative. She has a damaged relationship with her father, some problems with social anxiety and binge eating, and recently diagnosed ADHD (and possibly 'autism'). She had a stable job for years as a graphic designer, but recently quit due to feeling under appreciated and taken advantage of at work and being unable to negotiate for a deserved raise (among other things). You can tell she wants to be a good person, and she hates when her awkwardness sends people the wrong message. She is overweight, but I think she's beautiful. She is not promiscuous and 'used up.' She's a sweet, responsible woman who has worked to avoid the financial instability of her parents. She is not an ambitious career woman who has put career success over relationships. But she is single, and struggling to find someone, and, imo, much more representative of the average woman than the flashy, seductive, careerist woman trope we see on tv/movies/social media, the same trope that is still being dragged out to explain why so many women are unmarried, childless, and unhappy.
Millenials are not having a lot of sex. Gen Z is having even less. In this article, Gen Z-ers seem to have wised up to the fact that most casual sex is just being used: Gen Z Are “Puriteens,” But Not For The Reasons You Think
But does this mean that Gen Z will return to monogamy and early marriage? Maybe, but probably not. Given their rates of mental illness and sense of alienation I imagine they will tend towards celibacy over marriage. (If anyone has any info on this, that would appreciated, interested to see how this plays out) More and more people seem to be taking up the label of "autistic" due to symptoms that seem to reflect an inability to connect with others and function in the way modern life demands. I'm not a social person by any means, and it is really unnerving to think that my state of mind may become the norm soon. I'd rather be an outsider in a society of sane and stable social people, than a relative insider in a society of unhinged, disconnected, dysfunctional people (though the pandemic may have illuminated that that's already the case, hah...).
Women are less and less childless/unmarried as the result of promiscuity/career pursuits. I think it is a dying trope, and a scapegoat that will eventually crumble. Yes, some women follow this path. But more and more are leading lives that are the result of alienation, trauma, atomization, decaying mating rituals, and resulting celibacy. Similar things seem to be happening to men.
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