High Glutamate

I was tested once for amino acids and found to have really high glutamine or glutamate, I don't remember which one. I read that dairy makes that worse, that glutamine mixed in with calcium, is very bad. So does that mean that I shouldn't be doing dairy??? They said that casein causes high glutamate. What do you all know about this amino acid, what causes high excitotoxcity and how to prevent/lower it???? and are there any at-home tests to regularly test your amino acid levels???

Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter. I don't know the exact glutamate metabolism. It's a result of systemic dysfunction with more things involved.

Avoiding glutamine completely makes no sense the body makes it too. Meassuring isn't something I would do either. Then you can measure everything and I can assure you, in dysfunction >1000 things are aberrant. Keep the money and invest it in things that matter, for example proper foods.

Avoid L-glutamine powder, protein powders and E-625. Excess glutamine will be partly converted to to glutamate. E-625 is mono-sodium glutamate itself. And protein powders naturally have L-glutamine, but during the manufacturing process a part (or most??) is converted into glutamate.

Calcium is involved, however the body keeps calcium in a tight range. Avoiding calcium is not advised, PTH will harm you and will keep the calcium up, but at the expense of your bones!!

Find a balance that works for you. Excess glutamate will increase calcium influx resulting in neuropathy. As long as your dairy doesn't cause neuropathy you'll be fine. You can use thyroid supplements, or other Peaty things, to favor the nerve function and general metabolism which on itself does affect the glutamate metabolism.

Suikerbuik said:

As long as your dairy doesn't cause neuropathy you'll be fine.

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Seems like a pointless warning, or maybe it's sarcasm.

So I should continue on with my calcium (milk ,greek yogurt, cheese) at my leisure without worring about perhaps having too much glutamate?? Also, with the Great lakes gelatin, it also has glutamate, should I worry about not doing too much of that??? I appreciate you helping me out. And what is neuropathy??? I can't use thyroid right now, but what other peaty things help most with excess glutamate. And yes, glutamine is in all protein, so it's impossible to avoid. Are there any cheap, but effective ways to measure my glutamate without having to have a doc's order?

and yes, neuropathy is kind of scary. I"m a hypochondriac, so don't give me symptoms or all of a sudden I'll have them.

Although glutamate can cause excitotoxcity, that can be felt as pain, hence what I said. You shouldn't be scary of it. I agree it's not something funny though, as it can hinder your daily life. But nerves can regenerate (to some extent).

The point was, many people find out they have high glutamate after having neuropathic pains. They go to the internet and read milk is high in glutamine, so it's best to be avoided. And if you're luckily you'll also read that milk is for babies and shouldn't ever be taken nor by some healthy human....

Only if dairy is causing you to have nerve pains (burning nerves), you could try to avoid it for a while and see what it does, but that wasn't my recommendation. Luckily, you seem to have no nerve pains, so avoiding dairy is not necessarily.

Take it easy on the gelatin powder as well. See if you can feel some different patterns when consuming much and when consuming not so much. Although this may be really difficult I admit.

so where do I get protein from then?? Because all protein is high in glutamate, and I thought gelatin would hep counteract my other issues/ too much meat, and such. I don't feel any pain patterns or nerves, just was told once that my glutamate level was skyrocket high compared to my other amino acid levels. Now I'm more confused.

Now you've got me thinking. There are some nights (before bed now I have my milk/gelatin with sugar/salt) that I wake up with nerve pain (like a pinched nerve), where I have to wake up and take an ibuprofen or aspirin to calm the pain, but I've also had this before peat, milk/gelatin, and I've always assumed it's from sleeping wrong and pinching a nerve in my neck. Because I never get this in the day. And I have milk/gelatin in the day too, it's just something I get at night, some times 2-3 times a week, sometimes I go for weeks without it. Does that sound like what you're telling me to watch for?? OR do you agree, that I would also get it in the daytime, if it was related to the foods that I'm eating???

mamaherrera said:

so where do I get protein from then?? Because all protein is high in glutamate, and I thought gelatin would hep counteract my other issues/ too much meat, and such. I don't feel any pain patterns or nerves, just was told once that my glutamate level was skyrocket high compared to my other amino acid levels. Now I'm more confused.

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I'm not discounting the validity of your lab work showing high glutamate but do want to say (suikerbuik alluded to this) that with labs we have to remember they are just one moment in time. Our bodies and therefore our labs fluctuate. If you are generally feeling better with your current eating then high glutamate may no longer be an issue. I've had plenty of labs in the past that were abnormal or concerning that when rechecked ended up being perfectly fine. I spent time worried over nothing. If you are really concerned you could have the lab redrawn since you have made so many positive changes. The glutamate test sounds pretty obscure to me, like one of those alternative medicine tests designed to fearmonger and sell worthless supplements. I could be wrong though. I just don't think getting caught up in worry about glutamate being high once and altering your diet based on that test is going to be productive. If you were taking any supplements that contained glutamine or had eaten MSG that could lead to the abnormal lab result as well. I just wanted to throw that out there.

It's more like burning nerves, often in the legs. This leads to restless legs, especially at night. However 'the pain' or burning sensation can also occur during day time and doesn't have to be only limited to the legs. Just personal and matter of severity.

Sorry if my expression wasn't clear, my apologies. Wasn't meant to confuse you, on the contrary.

Like blossom says you can question labs, although most labs nowadays will give reliable results (depending of the assay). Besides that it's more important to recognize that blood are taken at one point in time only, like Blossom said as well. Especially neurotransmitters can be influenced by your circadian rhythm profoundly.

But more important, what is the goal you want to reach? You only want to lower lower glutamate because they have measured too high? Well then luckily you haven't drawn more labs, because likely hundreds of things won't be in range, especially if you have issues like you mentioned. Anyway I will try not to confuse you more. So here a summary of what I tried to say:

Avoid: L-glutamine powder, MSG (E-625), and protein powders especially those derived from milk.

Gelatin is something that may cause issues, but doesn't have to do so. If you are really not sure, avoid it till you're stable and intermittenly add it back to your diet and see what it does. If it doesn't do anything, and instead it does benefit you, then don't avoid it just because there may be glutamate in it..

Avoid: reading on the internet :P (this will indeed limit your food choices and may possible make you see more lions.)

Keep eating: dairy, meat and other proteins.

Eventually balance these, so you don't take all protein from dairy. Especially taking all your protein from cheese when having glutamate issues can be problematic. Anyway there's no recommendation about this.. Just follow your body, you will recognize issues soon enough when things don't fit you at this point in time - as things can change over time.

Improve your metabolism: thyroid, progesterone, niacinamide, etc. This will reduce the incidence of possible nerve damage and may eventually bring back your glutamate metabolism to 'normal', although more is involved in the pathology like said above.

Thanks, maybe I will continue on with gelatin then and try to balance out proteins from everywhere. Thanks for summary . . . . and yes my circadian rhythm is out of whack for sure, because I always go to sleep between 2-3 am and wake up between 10 and 11 am. Very hard thing to change for me. I get restless legs at times at night, but then again, it doesn't mean it's what you said, it could be lack of magnesium or whatever. No and Blossom made a very good point, it was a lab that was given to me "FREE" from an alternative lab place (I qualified for free testing/saliva) and then they went on to sell me a product to reduce glutamate from my body (guess what it was, tryptophan I believe or serotonic spray). I never did really feel any symptoms, but I have no reason to have high glutamate, especially now if I'm eating way less processed food. But gelatin is definitely considered a very good kind of protein right?? I"ve been trying to balance it out with meat. Thanks for all points made, they are all good ones. And the restless leg thing, I've had it before Peat diet, so it's not gotten worse or better, it's just one of those "once in a while" things that I've always had.

Although now reflecting, I think I might have symptoms of high glutamate, because I often have my mind racing at night, and restless legs once in a while, and pinched nerve pain every so often. But what are the main things (I don't want to do thyroid med right now) I should focus on or avoid to get my glutamate lower??? It seems like it's in all foods, meat, cheese, everything that is protein.

And I wonder a lot why I only get these symptoms at night. Does that mean it's even HIGHER at night??

mamaherrera said:

Although now reflecting, I think I might have symptoms of high glutamate, because I often have my mind racing at night, and restless legs once in a while, and pinched nerve pain every so often. But what are the main things (I don't want to do thyroid med right now) I should focus on or avoid to get my glutamate lower??? It seems like it's in all foods, meat, cheese, everything that is protein.

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I was curious to know if your diet was low carb when you had this glutamate testing?

thanks for responding Blossom, I get scared right away!! And start worrying, one of my big problems? I don't remember how I was eating at the time, I had no specific diet, just ate, I did eat a lot more processed foods that is for sure, potato chips, etc. But are there other causes for restless leg syndrome and racing minds at night, that don't always mean high glutamate?? cuz now I'm scared to up my milk and gelatin!

and they say that hydrolyzed gelatin is very high in free glutamate, so what to do ?? Is great lakes not as great as it sounds?

mamaherrera said:

thanks for responding Blossom, I get scared right away!! And start worrying, one of my big problems? I don't remember how I was eating at the time, I had no specific diet, just ate, I did eat a lot more processed foods that is for sure, potato chips, etc. But are there other causes for restless leg syndrome and racing minds at night, that don't always mean high glutamate?? cuz now I'm scared to up my milk and gelatin!

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Well the processed foods could have definitely contributed to the high reading simply because they often contain MSG. I know from personal experience and working around sick people that a lot of us have increased stress at night. After reading Peat's work it makes perfect sense. I never understood it before but noticed the pattern nonetheless. I would suspect you are just experiencing symptoms from what Peat calls ' the stress of darkness'. My symptoms have greatly improved over a 9 month period. You could still recheck the glutamate again if your concerned of course.

the darn problem is how to recheck it with out a doc's order. I'll have to see if they have self-pay urine tests for such things. I don't know. But yes, I would think that if the milk and gelatin were making it worse, I would also have the nerve pains/restless legs/racing mind at night, which I don't. The worrying and stress yes, but not the nerve pain. I hope it is just what you're describing, but what do you think about hydrolyzed gelatin having free glutamate, supposedly 10% by weight and milk having it too?? I mean, I ask you as yourself drinking lots of milk and gelatin, does it bother you at all, or what are your thoughts on those two food items that for Peat diet, are so staple.

mamaherrera said:

the darn problem is how to recheck it with out a doc's order. I'll have to see if they have self-pay urine tests for such things. I don't know. But yes, I would think that if the milk and gelatin were making it worse, I would also have the nerve pains/restless legs/racing mind at night, which I don't. The worrying and stress yes, but not the nerve pain. I hope it is just what you're describing, but what do you think about hydrolyzed gelatin having free glutamate, supposedly 10% by weight and milk having it too?? I mean, I ask you as yourself drinking lots of milk and gelatin, does it bother you at all, or what are your thoughts on those two food items that for Peat diet, are so staple.

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I think that the calcium in milk is so protective that it outweighs any minor imperfections. Having adequate protein is very important too and milk and gelatin are great sources and much better options than plain muscle meats. I can tell Peat spent a lot of time researching all of this so we could benefit from his knowledge. I still have some muscle meat but I balance it with gelatin and try to make dairy my main protein source and that is working out well for me. If you had had high glutamate on a Peat Inspired approach it would be more concerning but since it was high on a more processed food diet I do really think that was definitely a contributing factor in that test. My best advice would be to continue with dairy and gelatin if they don't bother you because they have many beneficial healing qualities and we need adequate protein. I've never had any experience with medical lab testing related to glutamate so I tend to think it is probably an obscure test designed to play on peoples fears and sell supplements but I'm not an authority! If you feel you have a high glutamate issue you should retest by all means!

so you're saying you've never had glutamate testing, or you mean you've never had it come up as high?? Yeah I don't know. It's just I hear things and think everything pertains to me. Before and during Peat, I have nights where I have to take an aspirin because of pinched nerve pain, but my husband says it could just be a bad sleeping position that causes that once in a while. Thanks for talking to me about this.

mamaherrera said:

so you're saying you've never had glutamate testing, or you mean you've never had it come up as high?? Yeah I don't know. It's just I hear things and think everything pertains to me. Before and during Peat, I have nights where I have to take an aspirin because of pinched nerve pain, but my husband says it could just be a bad sleeping position that causes that once in a while. Thanks for talking to me about this.

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No problem. I've never had the testing and I've never known anyone who has had that type of test in conventional medicine. That doesn't mean it's definitively a worthless or irrelevant test at all but I'm pretty certain it is an alternative medicine type test. It's obviously a test that is done in some settings because you had it and therefore the person who did it should have probably given you clear information about the meaning of the high reading. I hate to see people have tests and not get the explanation to go along with it to feel at ease that proper measures are being taken to correct the supposed problem. I guess the issues are: Is this really an issue on your current diet? Was this ever an issue or was it possible you had just eaten processed food with MSG before the test? If it were me I would continue with gelatin and milk because they are great sources of protein and other nutrients you need. I would probably investigate further to reduce my fears though. I'm sorry your going through this stress. That's unfortunately the limit to my personal experience. There may be some forum members with experience in alternative types of medicine that can give additional input. I'm going to have to go to bed now so I can get up for work. I hope you are able to find some information to ease your mind.