4-6 Hours Max - Why?

[DBCoast]

Eating more solids and experimenting with no caffeine is worth a try

Yes, I’m going to work on getting the caffeine down.

 

[DBCoast]

Hi DBCoast, you have my sympathies and I hope you get over this soon.
A couple of things you could try are:
- giving up coffee (and any other stimulants like tea, chocolate) completely. They say caffeine has a half life of 6 hours, so if you have 2 x 14 oz mugs at let's say 9am, that's like drinking 1 x 14 oz mug at 3pm, or 1/2 a 14 oz mug at 9pm. And that's not taking into account individual differences where some people have slower liver detox capabilities. Plus there are the extra stimulants in coffee such as theobromine. It doesn't mean you'd have to give up coffee for the rest of your life, hopefully you could re-introduce it when you are stronger again. You might feel like you have flu, body aches, headaches for a while on giving up. Sleep benefits can be fast even while going through detox. Though some people find their sleep quality goes up and down during caffeine detox. All this to say - giving up caffeine might help you if you are one of those people sensitive to it.
- having some starches that suit you at each of your 3 meals, like maybe oats, potato or rice. Starches could be helpful for slower digestion and steadier blood sugar vs having sugars.
You could also look into giving up any supplements you might be taking. Vitamin D for example can disturb sleep even if taken in the morning. Same goes for K.
And of course bright light first thing, and daily gentle exercise like walking really help too.

Thanks, @Bluebell. I appreciate your support. Caffeine helps me in the mornings when I’m crushed from bad sleep, but overall I don’t think it’s good for my situation since I lived off of stress hormones for so long. I need to quit.

I’ll incorporate some oats. I do well with them. Been doing a lot of fruit lately.

No supps for me except DHEA which I started recently. I feel like it gives me energy.

Yes, I do a morning walk daily. Absolutely love it.

 

[bornamachine]

@DBCoast Try quitting coffee for a bit and see if your sleep improves just my .02¢

 

[DBCoast]

@DBCoast Try quitting coffee for a bit and see if your sleep improves just my .02¢

I believe that’s my next step.

 

[DBCoast]

I forgot to mention that around 75% of the time I wake up with headaches in the back of my head. The headaches hurt a little more upon moving my head. They go away once I drink some coffee have been up for an hour or two.

Could this be apnea? I did a sleep study home test a few years ago because insurance wouldn’t cover the full test. The results came back borderline and the practitioner said the home tests aren’t very accurate. So there’s that.

I bought the apnea machine but never saw much benefit, but honestly I get aggravated with it and stop using it. I sleep on my side/stomach and the mask leaks in that position. It’s a real pain in the ****. Plus there’s the recall on apnea machines, but not sure if mine is one.

Wife says I snore when falling asleep on couch on my back. But lately I’ve woken myself up snoring even while sleeping on my side. When going to bed I feel like I’m not getting enough air while sleeping on my side, so I use Breathe Rite strips.

Maybe I should try the machine again.

I’m 5’9” 190, not fat and out of shape, but have some extra weight to lose on abdomen.

 

[Bluebell]

I forgot to mention that around 75% of the time I wake up with headaches in the back of my head. The headaches hurt a little more upon moving my head. They go away once I drink some coffee have been up for an hour or two.

Could easily be caffeine withdrawal symptoms.

 

[frannybananny]

@DBCoast, this isn’t the exact quote I was referring to, but it’s essentially the same:

“I have known people who woke up every hour or two during the night with nightmares. When they set an alarm clock to wake them a few minutes before the expected nightmare, to eat a small snack, after just a few days the nightmares stopped, and they were able to sleep through the night, apparently because they had replenished the glycogen stores of their liver, muscles, and brain, preventing hypoglycemia.” -Ray Peat

I wonder what kind of snack would be appropriate at that time? Anything with sugar or honey just speeds me up.

 

[frannybananny]

Thanks, @Bluebell. I appreciate your support. Caffeine helps me in the mornings when I’m crushed from bad sleep, but overall I don’t think it’s good for my situation since I lived off of stress hormones for so long. I need to quit.

I’ll incorporate some oats. I do well with them. Been doing a lot of fruit lately.

No supps for me except DHEA which I started recently. I feel like it gives me energy.

Yes, I do a morning walk daily. Absolutely love it.

You said you have 2 cups of coffee in the morning....why not try just one? I do love my one cup when I first get up and it suits me fine. I do go to bed late, like midnight or one and get my solid 8 hours of sleep.

 

[Jennifer]

I forgot to mention that around 75% of the time I wake up with headaches in the back of my head. The headaches hurt a little more upon moving my head. They go away once I drink some coffee have been up for an hour or two.

Could this be apnea? I did a sleep study home test a few years ago because insurance wouldn’t cover the full test. The results came back borderline and the practitioner said the home tests aren’t very accurate. So there’s that.

I bought the apnea machine but never saw much benefit, but honestly I get aggravated with it and stop using it. I sleep on my side/stomach and the mask leaks in that position. It’s a real pain in the ****. Plus there’s the recall on apnea machines, but not sure if mine is one.

Wife says I snore when falling asleep on couch on my back. But lately I’ve woken myself up snoring even while sleeping on my side. When going to bed I feel like I’m not getting enough air while sleeping on my side, so I use Breathe Rite strips.

Maybe I should try the machine again.

I’m 5’9” 190, not fat and out of shape, but have some extra weight to lose on abdomen.

I wake with a headache when I’ve had something that irritated my intestines—usually too much fruit or fiber. It can get so bad that I end up with a migraine and spend the day vomiting. Red light also gives me headaches, which I thought was odd but I came across one of Ray’s quotes this week where he mentioned getting headaches using red light before bed and recommended incandescent light instead. Anyhow, about the snoring—are your sinuses blocked when you go to bed? If so, that could be causing you to snore. I relate apnea to the adrenals, which goes back to thyroid function. My mum had it so bad that she would wake up in the middle of the night gasping for air. I was on heightened alert and if she made one off sound, I was running to her and getting her breathing again. It hadn’t occurred to me until now that after we got her on thyroid, she never had one of those episodes again.

 

[Jennifer]

I wonder what kind of snack would be appropriate at that time? Anything with sugar or honey just speeds me up.

By sugar, do you mean white sugar or carbs in general? If you mean carbs in general, maybe some cheese?

 

[frannybananny]

By sugar, do you mean white sugar or carbs in general? If you mean carbs in general, maybe some cheese?

I was referring to some people saying if they wake up they drink milk with sugar or honey in it. Plain cheese is very constipating to me. If I wake up I usually just go tinkle, drink some water with Baking soda in it and go back to sleep.

 

[DBCoast]

I wake with a headache when I’ve had something that irritated my intestines—usually too much fruit or fiber. It can get so bad that I end up with a migraine and spend the day vomiting. Red light also gives me headaches, which I thought was odd but I came across one of Ray’s quotes this week where he mentioned getting headaches using red light before bed and recommended incandescent light instead. Anyhow, about the snoring—are your sinuses blocked when you go to bed? If so, that could be causing you to snore. I relate apnea to the adrenals, which goes back to thyroid function. My mum had it so bad that she would wake up in the middle of the night gasping for air. I was on heightened alert and if she made one off sound, I was running to her and getting her breathing again. It hadn’t occurred to me until now that after we got her on thyroid, she never had one of those episodes again.

No real sinus issues. I just feel like I need more air through my nose, so I use the strips. I really don’t want to get dependent on the machine.

 

[Limon9]

It has been suggested that some cases of sleep apnea are a result of functional thiamine deficiency, which begets an intermittent hypoxia. Hypertension would be a co-indication of this, as a result of chronic sympathetic activation. This would also peturb the production of carbon dioxide, making honey milk advice little more than honey words. Hence the (successful) use of acetazolamide for apnea. I see you've discussed dietary histamine and choline in other threads, and perhaps your requirement for the latter to alleviate Weston's Liver-Wasting is greater than believed.

 

[DBCoast]

Wide awake from 12:30-4:00am. Now destroyed yet again. How much more can one take? It’s never ending. I can’t describe the degree of pain. This is daily and constant. Every day. Not every now and then. Every single day.

 

[LadyRae]

Wide awake from 12:30-4:00am. Now destroyed yet again. How much more can one take? It’s never ending. I can’t describe the degree of pain. This is daily and constant. Every day. Not every now and then. Every single day.

Hugs!

 

[Bluebell]

I really feel for you DBCoast. Hang in there.
It's kind of a bandaid but there is cyproheptadine. If it works for you, it might help you through times like this while you search for the root cause of your insomnia. If you take the absolute minimum dose possible that still helps sleep, you can minimise the next day effects of feeling foggy. I find the tiny dose of 0.3mg helps with sleep.

 

[Jennifer]

Wide awake from 12:30-4:00am. Now destroyed yet again. How much more can one take? It’s never ending. I can’t describe the degree of pain. This is daily and constant. Every day. Not every now and then. Every single day.

I’m bummed the alarm hack didn’t work for you. Are your temps still low? If so, maybe consider supplementing some thyroid or maybe even some Progest-E? @SonOfEurope has experience with using Progest-E as a man.

 

[LadyRae]

I feel like we are all playing pin the tail in the donkey, hoping something sticks. I guess even if a lot of these suggestions don't ring true for you, at least you know we are all thinking about you!

About a week ago I started tanning in a tanning salon to prepare for my trip to Hawaii. Within a couple days I noticed that my sleep drastically improved. I'm sleeping 8 or 9 hours straight without even one pee break....last night- 10 hours!

We live in four seasons here, which I love by the way. I lived in Hawaii for a while and after about 6 months I honestly got bored with the weather being sunny and perfect every single day. That said, when the weather gets warmer here and the sun shines brightly, usually March and april, I will start laying out in the sun and I notice improved sleep then as well. There just isn't anything that can substitute for real sun, except maybe a UVB fake tanning bulb haha

Anyhow, maybe worth a try...

 

[DBCoast]

Sorry, y’all, I meant to post this on my log! Didn’t want to complain here.

But yes, it was brutal. I feel absolutely crushed by it and my face looks horrible - dark circles and bags. Very difficult.

 

[redsun]

I feel like we are all playing pin the tail in the donkey, hoping something sticks. I guess even if a lot of these suggestions don't ring true for you, at least you know we are all thinking about you!

About a week ago I started tanning in a tanning salon to prepare for my trip to Hawaii. Within a couple days I noticed that my sleep drastically improved. I'm sleeping 8 or 9 hours straight without even one pee break....last night- 10 hours!

We live in four seasons here, which I love by the way. I lived in Hawaii for a while and after about 6 months I honestly got bored with the weather being sunny and perfect every single day. That said, when the weather gets warmer here and the sun shines brightly, usually March and april, I will start laying out in the sun and I notice improved sleep then as well. There just isn't anything that can substitute for real sun, except maybe a UVB fake tanning bulb haha

Anyhow, maybe worth a try...

Yeh unfortunately for problems like this, some kind of testing needs to be done to get an idea of what is actually going on.