Building Muscle

[Nstocks]

I had my TSH checked 1 years ago which was 1.1 mU/L (0.35 – 4.94) (bracket is the range). This was all I could get out of my Doctor on the NHS. Of courseI've looked at private testing, but with travel costs it will be at least £200. Reflecting on my state of well-being one year ago, i definitely don't feel like I'm a declining old man and I think that I have made some progress. (adding carbs helped a LOT at the beginning, since I was 2.5 years Paleo on less than 80g per day)

I did supplement with raw thyroid last year, but I also continued to under-eat so it was pointless. I also measure my pulse and temp for a few weeks last year:

Temp Pulse
25/09/13 36.2 78
26/09/13 36.4 63
27/09/13 36.2 70
28/09/13 36.5 73
29/09/13 missed missed
30/09/13 35.6 70
01/10/13 36.6 74
02/10/13 missed missed
03.10/13 36.8 67
04/10/13 36.8 75
05/10/13 36.8 70
08/10/13 36.6 71

I've just taken my temp (before eating) and it's 36.5C. Still low and my feet are on this occasion very cold. (I also get cold feet after eating rice krispies which is very odd).

I use to add sugar to my milk but for me it ruins the taste (raw milk is delicious as it it). I eat a few tablespoons of honey a day when I have watermelon or coffee. Yesterday I actually ate 3,000 calories! A lot of that was from candy and cereal, Macros where: 127g fat (too much), 320g carbohydrates and 105g protein. I ate beef and tuna yesterday which is why the protein is higher than normal.

I think making shepherd's pie will work for me, I seem to digest it well after using a slow cooker (crock pot) and that really warms me up!

 

[aquaman]

I think somewhere in-between could increase muscle but not so much that I just gain fat too quickly. I know it's going to be a long and slow journey but for me, consistency is crucial and I don't have the money right now to eat that many calories. (even if 1500 are from cheap junk food like candy) I've found raw organic goat milk 80pence cheaper per pint though, which I'm really happy about!

Yeah work your way up, obviously . Jumping from 2000 to 3500 will not work.

Can you post a link to the raw goat milk in UK pls?

 

[aquaman]

How many calories someone needs depends on many things, most notably their metabolic rate, so do not let the rules bind you. Appetite will tell you if you eat too little, preventing muscle growth, or eat too much, stimulating fat gain. There are bodybuilders, even successful ones, that eat much more than their appetite tells them they should, and although muscle growth is faster this way, bulking usually causes fat gain. If your spontaneous caloric intake is low, then get your thyroid checked.

If he's 23 and 160 pound at 6 foot 3, he's clearly eating too little and needs to up it massively.

Eating excess calories will likely help his metabolism recover.

GIven he's spent his adult life eating too little, I think aiming to get to 3500 calories over the next month or two is a really useful goal. His appetite would have suppressed to match previous intake, so not a good indicator of how much he should be eating. At 6 foot 3 he needs probably to put on 20-25 pounds to look the right size.

Your arbitrary quote of "successful bodbuilders getting fat" is exactly that .. very arbitrary. Who are you referring to whose diet and training you have seen? And what relevance does a fat bodybuilder have anyway? :) they're probably eating 6000 calories+

 

[Nstocks]

How many calories someone needs depends on many things, most notably their metabolic rate, so do not let the rules bind you. Appetite will tell you if you eat too little, preventing muscle growth, or eat too much, stimulating fat gain. There are bodybuilders, even successful ones, that eat much more than their appetite tells them they should, and although muscle growth is faster this way, bulking usually causes fat gain. If your spontaneous caloric intake is low, then get your thyroid checked.

If he's 23 and 160 pound at 6 foot 3, he's clearly eating too little and needs to up it massively.

Eating excess calories will likely help his metabolism recover.

GIven he's spent his adult life eating too little, I think aiming to get to 3500 calories over the next month or two is a really useful goal. His appetite would have suppressed to match previous intake, so not a good indicator of how much he should be eating. At 6 foot 3 he needs probably to put on 20-25 pounds to look the right size.

Your arbitrary quote of "successful bodbuilders getting fat" is exactly that .. very arbitrary. Who are you referring to whose diet and training you have seen? And what relevance does a fat bodybuilder have anyway? :) they're probably eating 6000 calories+

The RAW goat milk can be purchased from these websites:

http://www.chucklinggoat.co.uk

http://www.highwealddairy.co.uk/index.p ... &cID=12205

I recently ordered from highwealddairy (Ellie's dairy supplies the milk - google it to see her blog). They ran out of this particular milk so they sent me some organic raw goat milk. Long story short, they have a tiny supply of organic goat milk which is why they don't sell it on their website but when I received my order I contacted the company who's email was on the bottles. It turns out buying directly from this particular organic farm means milk is quite a lot cheaper than the other farms. Plus it's certified organic which neither of the other farms are, though they both adhere to strict quality and well-being for their goat. (chuckling goat, charge an insane amount for delivery). PM me for more details and their email address.

I'm 6'2" and now weigh 169lbs. I would agree that I've been under eating since at least the age of 18. Although my overall build isn't "too skinny", my upper body needs the most bulk so I don't look as thin overall. (But I know I can't selective chose where the gains will be)

P.S I had a Mcdonalds yesterday - first one in over 7 years! (first fast food in over 7 years too, no joke). It's not something I would do often (my Brother was going so I asked him to get me something too,) but it's better than underrating when I'm short on other foods. Plus it's very cheap.

 

[tara]

I did supplement with raw thyroid last year, but I also continued to under-eat so it was pointless. I also measure my pulse and temp for a few weeks last year:

Temp Pulse
25/09/13 36.2 78
26/09/13 36.4 63
27/09/13 36.2 70
28/09/13 36.5 73
29/09/13 missed missed
30/09/13 35.6 70
01/10/13 36.6 74
02/10/13 missed missed
03.10/13 36.8 67
04/10/13 36.8 75
05/10/13 36.8 70
08/10/13 36.6 71

I'm no expert on reading this, but to me it looks slightly low but not extreme. Was this while you were supplementing?

I've just taken my temp (before eating) and it's 36.5C. Still low and my feet are on this occasion very cold. (I also get cold feet after eating rice krispies which is very odd).

I get cold feet easily too. If it happpens a lot, I think it's a clear hypothyroid sign.

Yesterday I actually ate 3,000 calories! A lot of that was from candy and cereal, Macros where: 127g fat (too much), 320g carbohydrates and 105g protein. I ate beef and tuna yesterday which is why the protein is higher than normal.

Congratulations! Did you enjoy it? Feel more energetic? Imagine continuing in that vein? 127g fat doesn't look terrible in this context. It's only about 1/3 of your 3000 calories, and it may well be more important to get enough food than to always keep the fat low.

I think making shepherd's pie will work for me, I seem to digest it well after using a slow cooker (crock pot) and that really warms me up!

Yum.

 

[Nstocks]

I'm no expert on reading this, but to me it looks slightly low but not extreme. Was this while you were supplementing?

I think I had just stopped taking raw thyroid, which I don't think did anything at all.

I get cold feet easily too. If it happpens a lot, I think it's a clear hypothyroid sign.?

Indeed. This was my first sign of hypothyroidism and for the past few months (even during winter) my feet were hardly ever cold. It's only this past week that they started getting cold again . (and I'm eating more! I think it has something to do with the little starch I'm eating)

Congratulations! Did you enjoy it? Feel more energetic? Imagine continuing in that vein? 127g fat doesn't look terrible in this context. It's only about 1/3 of your 3000 calories, and it may well be more important to get enough food than to always keep the fat low.

I did! I've not done it again and I'm still getting less than 2,400 most days which bring me to my next question: The ol' protein bars. I'm tempted to buy some (when I find one with minimal offending ingredients) to boost my calories and protein. Problem is, most are full of nuts, soy or cow dairy which I want none of. I know that milk and other things are a better source, but considering how calorie dense they are in relation to volume, these may help me. My digestion is strange: some days I have 3 BM's and other it's none. Some days what comes out is 'perfect poop', others not so much. (small, hard stools)

 

[jaywills]

Hi all,

How many of you incorporate starch (in the form of white potatoes, white rice) into your muscle buidling nutrition regimes? I am trying to gain muscle at the moment and am curious into the msucle building benefits of purely fructose consumption as my carb source (which i am doing currently)? With the insulin surge starch can give, wouldnt starch be an optimal post-workout carbohydrate in combination with fructose? Also an ideal way to bump up calories to the required high ends to enact growth?

 

[Nstocks]

Another update!

For the past week or so I've been quite constipated (great start, I know). I took cascara sagrada which helps a little, but sometimes I find that coffee helps too. I have been eating a little more starch (due to lack of other food to be honest) which may be the issue. I've also had a few items from McDonalds to keep protein/calories up too. Not the best choice but sometimes these things just happen now and then. I also think that chicken is becoming a complete pain in the digestion, not sure why, I usually fry it with coconut oil and herbs.

Today I feel huge. I'm 12st 4 lbs so I"m gaining around 1 lb per 10 days or so and of course that seems to be as fat. I know building muscle is slow and most of what I'm feeling is probably fear that I'll end up like most of my family (obese on different diets each year - bad genes I guess!)

Hmmmmm. Not sure what I'm asking here; I just wanted to write it in here and share myfitnesspal diary if anyone is interested. I don't log the 30 minutes of intense exercise I do per week. Some days are missing, but I did eat on those days! It'd be interesting and quite helpful to read what anyone has to say
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/N_stocks

 

[dukez07]

RP recommends starch free potato juice as protein source to vegetarians.
RP has mentioned that potato juice is equivalent to milk in terms of protein
that is about 32 grams of protein per quart. Keto Acid in potato juice has
very special beneficial effects. Potato is full of vitamins and minerals.
There is a thread on how to make starch free potato juice here.
I have noticed significant muscle gain only after i make sure i
was getting around 100 grams of protein daily, mainly from dairy
and some meat. I gained all that muscle without any kind of
exercise. RP recommends concentric exercise only,
eccentric exercise builds weak muscle.

Over the last 7 months, I've noticed huge gains from milk. But then, that really is a good thing according to Peat? I've got this skinny waist and these big bulging, hulk like shoulders. I get more attention from females when I wear tight t-shirts, but, it also works the opposite way too. For instance, people seem to judge me because of how I look ('muscle freak' or 'vein air head'). I've even had someone ask me if I am on steroids. I don't work out at all, and haven't lifted any weights for years. I've always had big arm muscles, but milk has pushed it to another level. Whether that is natural or not, I don't know. I've had this much growth from 7 months of use, it kind of makes me wonder what I will look like in seven years.

 

[Nstocks]

My upper body is the only part I'm actually interested in building! It's this part of the body that overall, makes one look "built". I know what you mean - I actually think like that about some people who go around wearing a tshirt 4 sizes too small just to show off their muscles. (is there their entire self-worth?!) I'm not trying to build muscle for quite that effect. I just want to look 'normal' and healthy, not so damn scrawny.

I've never had a muscular build but since ditching low carb, I can no longer grasp my entire bicep with a hand - I have 11" arms though which is sad and along with my body composition, makes me look quite weak. I'm keeping the milk intake high - 2-3 pints raw goat milk per day. How much are you drinking? What's your protein intake/sources?

 

[jyb]

I don't work out at all, and haven't lifted any weights for years. I've always had big arm muscles, but milk has pushed it to another level

Haha, very similar situation though it doesn't look bad. And always love to explain that the only weights I do is lifting up ice cream n milk. My guess is that the body re-build its muscles when it finally has access to a healthy amount of protein, calcium etc. I also guess that it might have been pushed re-build it slightly more than it would have due to prior gym-like exercise. I used to exercise before, so the arms might have had it in memory.

 

[Nstocks]

I'm exercising once a week for around 30 minutes which seems enough stress for my body right now. I did look at getting one of these but perhaps I should wait a few months and just keep eating! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HENCHGRIPZ-CR ... 41736d9870

 

[tca300]

You have no energy because your protein is too low plus not enough calories. To build muscle optimally you will need to get around .82 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Get most of your calories from sugar/starch, eat low fat and you wont gain fat. You should be working each muscle 2-3 times per week with a resistance that doesn't allow you to do more than 12 reps. Shoot for about 25-50 total reps for each exercise. Don't waste your time with isolation exercises. Stay active and off your butt for most of the day and you wont have to worry about fat gain, unless your destroying the fat calories. I've been lifting for 13 years, I know the low protein thing doesn't work. You can get your protein from meat as well, just consume gelatin, coffee and sugar along with it. The phosphorus in meat wont likely be a problem as long as your getting enough calcium from other sources and plenty of fructose from fruit/sugar.

Sample program 3 days per week Full Body
Monday- Squats/Overhead presses/ pullups
Wednesday- Deadlifts/pushups/ rows
Friday - Sprints/ dips/ barbell rows

do 3-5 sets per exercise. you can also do it two days per week as well.

 

[j.]

Get most of your calories from sugar/starch, eat low fat and you wont gain fat.

Insane advice.

 

[Nstocks]

You have no energy because your protein is too low plus not enough calories. To build muscle optimally you will need to get around .82 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Get most of your calories from sugar/starch, eat low fat and you wont gain fat. You should be working each muscle 2-3 times per week with a resistance that doesn't allow you to do more than 12 reps. Shoot for about 25-50 total reps for each exercise. Don't waste your time with isolation exercises. Stay active and off your butt for most of the day and you wont have to worry about fat gain, unless your destroying the fat calories. I've been lifting for 13 years, I know the low protein thing doesn't work. You can get your protein from meat as well, just consume gelatin, coffee and sugar along with it. The phosphorus in meat wont likely be a problem as long as your getting enough calcium from other sources and plenty of fructose from fruit/sugar.

Sample program 3 days per week Full Body
Monday- Squats/Overhead presses/ pullups
Wednesday- Deadlifts/pushups/ rows
Friday - Sprints/ dips/ barbell rows

do 3-5 sets per exercise. you can also do it two days per week as well.

I appreciate the (general) advice, but it's not really relevant for my situation.

Startch seems to be the worse form of calories for me, and to honest, they always have been.

Whilst it's an ideal to stay active, like most people, my job requires me to be stationary 80% of the time, at a computer. This might be hindering my muscle gains, but I have no interest OR money to join a gym. It's true that I can joint a gym for £20 a month, I'd rather spend that on RAW goat milk and do bodyweight exercises at home.

Remember that I've literally never done any weightlifting exercise, the most exercise I did was from 11 - 15 years old, playing badminton for 20 hours a week (for our county). I currently do pushups, dips, leg raises, squats and occasionally mountain climbs.

Based on my weight of 174lbs (6' 2", 23 years old male) what would you suggest my calories and protein is? I'm aiming for 2600 calories and at least 100g protein. The only way to get more protein is to increase fat intake by eating more meat. I ono 2600 isn't enough, it's more consistent than what I've been doing for a few years and it's something I can manage right now.

 

[Ben]

Nothing indicates caloric requirement better than appetite. Don't try to create a one-size-fits-all routine. You may have a low metabolic rate if you eat little calories without gaining weight. In this case, get your thyroid tested. But even so, this doesn't impact the amount of muscle you can gain. If you workout, you'll spontaneously eat more. Tune into your appetite and eat a little more than you think you need to stay safe, but don't stuff yourself.

 

[tca300]

"Insane advice" my and my clients physiques speak for themselves. If you don't look and perform like me, shut up.
You don't need to lift weights at all. Keep doing your body weight exercises. The issue is people who exclusively use body weight exercises will get to the point of doing 100's of push ups etc at a time. You wont build much muscle at all with high reps like that. I would suggest looking up progressively harder variations of body weight exercises so you can keep the reps between 12 or below, I would work on pull ups or body weight rows too, your doing too many upper push movements in comparison to upper pull movements, which will create internally rotated shoulders and jack up your posture. Your sedentary at work, ok... so... don't be sedentary when you get home, stand, workout, walk around etc.. and being sedentary at work wont affect your gains. I said SUCROSE ( fruit ) and or starch. I don't recommend starch, I just know most cant afford to get most of there calories from fruit. Can you not get lean meats? The raw goat milk is good, but if you are pretty sedentary most of the time, the fat from it will likely get stored. For your current body weight, even if you are working out hard, your system wont use more than about 140 grams, so 100-140 grams of quality animal protein per day would be optimal. Calories are important, but like Ben said, that should be based on appetite, and how you feel. 2600 per day would most likely allow you to build muscle at a slow pace while losing fat, but there's too many variables. For instance I weigh 180lbs and I get heart palpitations and cant sleep well if I eat under 2800 calories per day. I've seen people cut calories to lose weight and it just makes them fat. The body is very smart and if it knows your cutting the food intake back, it will really start to store fat so it has energy for later. People getting fat from "overeating" are getting fat because they are eating too much fat, Not carbs.

 

[Nstocks]

"I would work on pull ups or body weight rows too, your doing too many upper push movements in comparison to upper pull movements, which will create internally rotated shoulders and jack up your posture.

I definitely agree about this, I need to do some pull movements, even though right now my posture is excellent. (I had severe back pain, but I learnt how to sit, stand and walk correctly - Esther Gokhale)

Would something like this be worthwhile? https://www.trxtraining.com/products/trx-home

I think someone mentioned this earlier in this post... these are much cheaper though: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUSPENSION-TR ... 35d700efd8

 

[tca300]

Gymnastic rings are much better, and last longer.. and cheaper
https://christiansfitnessfactory.com/cf ... traps.html
Make sure for every push up or dip you do, to do at least the same repetitions of body weight horizontal rows, with a strait back ( slightly arching backwards and while flexing the muscles along the spine). Back bridge holds are fantastic for strengthening all the muscles along the spine, which should help with back pain.

 

[Filip1993]

@Tca300 What's a good amount of fat in your opinion? Let say I eat around 3000 calories, is 50 grams of fat ok?