Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

[jb116]

Biotin can be of help with the ammonia

 

[Demyze]

I've been doing the Caffeine (not 1000 mg but just extra coffee), K2-MK4 (30-45mg), Glycine (8 mg), and Tuarine (can't figure out dosage) for about a week now. I gotta say this is probably the biggest change i've ever experienced from anything since I started following Dr. Peat's advice. Coffee no longer causes me to start sweating like crazy and get jittery and my residual acne has cleared up. Just way less stressed in general. Also my teeth look way better (prob just the K2 tho). I suspect K2 to be the superstar, its just too bad Thorne's stuff is so expensive (its great tho). I feel that my estrogen levels are down (improved liver metabolism) but I can't fit a blood test in to confirm right now.

I'm having issues figuring out the Tuarine. I can tell that it calms me down but it also seems to bother my stomach or make me feel spaced out. I'm using "purebulk"'s Tuarine.

Haidut, I know you mentioned using about 15g Tuarine in the past. Do you recommend dissolving it? I've read a lot of studies on the computers at my college about the positive effects of the other three(Caff, k2, Gly, and Mg) but I can't figure out how Taurine is working.

Also I've been mixing my Glycine into the Carbonated Mag water (the 3 Tbsp Mg(OH)2 per L recipe) but I saw that you said Glycine and Mag had a negative effect if not chemically bonded. Would dissolving it be sufficient to bond the Mg and Glycine?

 

[Fletcher]

That was more than a year ago, and I was taking 400mg caffeine and 15mg - 30mg K2 (MK-4). Within a week I was able to pound 1,000mg+ daily and that "tolerance" never disappeared afterwards. Within 2 weeks I was able to skip meals without getting stress reaction symptoms, which means glycogen storage improved a lot.

Hi Haidut, how long did you keep up the 1,000mg of caffeine daily? If you were advising a liver cleanse protocol now, how high a dose of caffeine would you recommend and for how long?

 

[haidut]

post 101717 I've been doing the Caffeine (not 1000 mg but just extra coffee), K2-MK4 (30-45mg), Glycine (8 mg), and Tuarine (can't figure out dosage) for about a week now. I gotta say this is probably the biggest change i've ever experienced from anything since I started following Dr. Peat's advice. Coffee no longer causes me to start sweating like crazy and get jittery and my residual acne has cleared up. Just way less stressed in general. Also my teeth look way better (prob just the K2 tho). I suspect K2 to be the superstar, its just too bad Thorne's stuff is so expensive (its great tho). I feel that my estrogen levels are down (improved liver metabolism) but I can't fit a blood test in to confirm right now.

I'm having issues figuring out the Tuarine. I can tell that it calms me down but it also seems to bother my stomach or make me feel spaced out. I'm using "purebulk"'s Tuarine.

Haidut, I know you mentioned using about 15g Tuarine in the past. Do you recommend dissolving it? I've read a lot of studies on the computers at my college about the positive effects of the other three(Caff, k2, Gly, and Mg) but I can't figure out how Taurine is working.

Also I've been mixing my Glycine into the Carbonated Mag water (the 3 Tbsp Mg(OH)2 per L recipe) but I saw that you said Glycine and Mag had a negative effect if not chemically bonded. Would dissolving it be sufficient to bond the Mg and Glycine?

Taking 15g of taurine is lot and it was done as an experiment. Most studies found no significant short term benefit of taurine over 1.5g daily except high doses reduced blood pressure. So, dissolving 1.5g should not be a problem. I use capsules since taurine has unpleasant taste.

 

[haidut]

post 103439

That was more than a year ago, and I was taking 400mg caffeine and 15mg - 30mg K2 (MK-4). Within a week I was able to pound 1,000mg+ daily and that "tolerance" never disappeared afterwards. Within 2 weeks I was able to skip meals without getting stress reaction symptoms, which means glycogen storage improved a lot.

Hi Haidut, how long did you keep up the 1,000mg of caffeine daily? If you were advising a liver cleanse protocol now, how high a dose of caffeine would you recommend and for how long?

The animal studies showed reversal of NAFLD in 3 weeks, and used a relatively low dose (human dose of about 200mg). For liver fibrosis it will probably have to be longer - maybe 8-10 weeks and much higher doses (studies used 1g+ daily). I still take the high dose caffeine but more for its dopaminergic qualities and not every day.

 

[Fletcher]

The animal studies showed reversal of NAFLD in 3 weeks, and used a relatively low dose (human dose of about 200mg). For liver fibrosis it will probably have to be longer - maybe 8-10 weeks and much higher doses (studies used 1g+ daily). I still take the high dose caffeine but more for its dopaminergic qualities and not every day.

Thanks for your answer

 

[NathanK]

I've been working on my liver off and on (with other thing) for 6 months. I've finally turned the confounding corner with caffeine and can handle 600+mg with an extra strength coffee/day. It's strange, but I think my biggest turn around for everything happened about a month ago when I first started on cypro. Since then everything seems easier.

Today after popping 400mg of caffeine I passed out and took the longest and falling nap (no cypro). I no longer feel much "euphoria" and my feet dont get cold. So a lot of this does seem to be coming around. I think a big issue was I was just taking too much before I could handle it, which then led me to swearing off on supplemental caffeine for a month or two each time.

Prior to trying cypro I had done most of the usual substances like K2 (I still take daily), taurine (massive help in a lot of areas), BCAA+NALT/Phenyl, MB, B vitamins, etc with some success.

Ill see where this goes and do labs in a few months. This week I started to take around 2-3mg of biotin, ~100mg B6 (not p5p), 1500mg nicinamide, and starting today ~6g Aspirin along with my other B vitamins in order to lower homocysteine and increase glycogen storage (I hope I'm not overdoing it...)

My successes this year have been pretty outstanding all in all so I feel I'm on the right path. I've had an increase in energy, my free and total testosterone has more than doubled, my total cholesterol has dropped from close to 300 to 238, LDL down from ~170 to 120, and I've lost 10lbs. Now I just want to lower more bf% and bring down my triglycerides. It's been a long hard journey, but this board has so many real actionable nuggets of gold information that it's astounding. Many thanks!

 

[Peata]

post 103500 I've been working on my liver off and on (with other thing) for 6 months. I've finally turned the confounding corner with caffeine and can handle 600+mg with an extra strength coffee/day. It's strange, but I think my biggest turn around for everything happened about a month ago when I first started on cypro. Since then everything seems easier.

Today after popping 400mg of caffeine I passed out and took the longest and falling nap (no cypro). I no longer feel much "euphoria" and my feet dont get cold. So a lot of this does seem to be coming around. I think a big issue was I was just taking too much before I could handle it, which then led me to swearing off on supplemental caffeine for a month or two each time.

Prior to trying cypro I had done most of the usual substances like K2 (I still take daily), taurine (massive help in a lot of areas), BCAA+NALT/Phenyl, MB, B vitamins, etc with some success.

Ill see where this goes and do labs in a few months. This week I started to take around 2-3mg of biotin, ~100mg B6 (not p5p), 1500mg nicinamide, and starting today ~6g Aspirin along with my other B vitamins in order to lower homocysteine and increase glycogen storage (I hope I'm not overdoing it...)

My successes this year have been pretty outstanding all in all so I feel I'm on the right path. I've had an increase in energy, my free and total testosterone has more than doubled, my total cholesterol has dropped from close to 300 to 238, LDL down from ~170 to 120, and I've lost 10lbs. Now I just want to lower more bf% and bring down my triglycerides. It's been a long hard journey, but this board has so many real actionable nuggets of gold information that it's astounding. Many thanks!

Congrats, glad you're seeing successes.

I too have been working on my liver. I also take 600+ mg caffeine daily between supplements, coffee, cola, etc. And yes, cyp does make the caffeine effect less harsh. For the last couple weeks, I was taking 1/2 mg. cypro a couple times per day when I had caffeine (and sugar/food). I got the energized effect from the caffeine without jitters. And like you, I started too much caffeine before I could handle it (this was back in the winter/early spring). I still think I have some work to do on my liver, and hope my new supplement regimen can help me toward that and with more weight loss, energy, focus, etc. Wish you continued improvement too.

 

[NathanK]

Congrats, glad you're seeing successes.

I too have been working on my liver. I also take 600+ mg caffeine daily between supplements, coffee, cola, etc. And yes, cyp does make the caffeine effect less harsh. For the last couple weeks, I was taking 1/2 mg. cypro a couple times per day when I had caffeine (and sugar/food). I got the energized effect from the caffeine without jitters. And like you, I started too much caffeine before I could handle it (this was back in the winter/early spring). I still think I have some work to do on my liver, and hope my new supplement regimen can help me toward that and with more weight loss, energy, focus, etc. Wish you continued improvement too.

Thanks Peata, same to you!

Unfortunately, I had a problem with caffeine again. I think it slowly takes it's toll on me after so many days. I thought I'd turned that corner, but apparently not as I had a night where I couldn't sleep. I also noticed that it caused me to gain weight. I think I hit a point where it increased cortisol and instead of "shedding the fat" actually causes me to retain it. I'll start again at lower doses after I try a few other things.

I'm not sure if some of this had to do with me trying 6g of aspirin for the first time as well. It felt like I poisoned my mitochondria (technically it kinda is) and I was dealing with a low grade cold with little energy in the days that followed. It made me remember what those low energy days were like again, which scared me. It's funny how when you are feeling good again, you so easily forget what feeling bad felt like.

I noticed some nausea and was mildly hypoxic the day I took the aspirin too. It's taken almost a week to feel normal again. I'll be wary of trying high dose aspirin in the future. I think focusing on the B vitamins route is the best idea for increasing glycogen storage. Caffeine will take patience. I may try the famotadine as well since I sampled it once or twice and felt pretty inert.

 

[Nighteyes]

I'm not sure if some of this had to do with me trying 6g of aspirin for the first time as well. It felt like I poisoned my mitochondria (technically it kinda is)

Hi there. Would you mind elaborating on how Aspirin / Salicylic Acid poisons the mitochondria? I too have had some bad symptoms with aspirin and recently caught a cold and felt slightly nausious (symptoms of reye's?).. although Ray describes in his article on Aspirin how he does not think there is evidence pointing towards a connection between apirin and reye's...

Edit: Cannot seem to make it say: "NathanK wrote" when I quote.. How to do this? (noob I know)

 

[NathanK]

post 104231

I'm not sure if some of this had to do with me trying 6g of aspirin for the first time as well. It felt like I poisoned my mitochondria (technically it kinda is)

Hi there. Would you mind elaborating on how Aspirin / Salicylic Acid poisons the mitochondria? I too have had some bad symptoms with aspirin and recently caught a cold and felt slightly nausious (symptoms of reye's?).. although Ray describes in his article on Aspirin how he does not think there is evidence pointing towards a connection between apirin and reye's...

Sorry, I didn't mean poisoning literally. I was referring to uncoupling. I wouldn't worry about Reye's. I don't know how much you were taking, but I was took 6 grams or roughly 18 pills that day. I'm not sure what made me feel bad, but it most likely was the ungodly amount of supplements I foolishly took in one day.

 

[SQu]

Just for the record,( and maybe this should go into a relevant thread?) I felt similar to Nathan on high dose aspirin.Culminated in migraine. Definitely felt like liver was taking strain and became coffee averse briefly too. I'd love to understand what happened there.

 

[haidut]

post 104432 Just for the record,( and maybe this should go into a relevant thread?) I felt similar to Nathan on high dose aspirin.Culminated in migraine. Definitely felt like liver was taking strain and became coffee averse briefly too. I'd love to understand what happened there.

Aspirin in high doses inhibits beta oxidation of fatty acids and in some people that can cause liver issues. In most people seems to be fairly benign but in some chronically ill people it can be a problem. This is probably one of the reasons the original aspirin trials in HIV were stopped. The results were excellent but a few people got elevated liver enzymes even though they were nowhere close to toxic.
Again, this seems to happen in doses of 6g+ and only in people who already have compromised liver function. In smaller doses aspirni is so protective to the liver that it can be used as antidote to acetaminophen poisoning. I posted a study on that too.

 

[SQu]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I knew it was the liver and I know my liver has issues though I do not think of myself as chronically ill. I'm probably lucky not to feel as bad as i might. I'm grateful.

 

[scarlettsmum]

I am just little confused as to why do people with terrible diet can still do well on coffee. And I am talking about PUFA ladden diet where the individual simply doesn't care at all about their diet. Why is that? Wouldn't they have fatty liver amongst other problems? Is it possible that they don't have fatty liver precisely because they drink coffee? So the coffee is actually protective?

I too get stress reaction with coffee. Would a sensible thing be to drink 1-2 cups of coffee which should give me 200 mg caffein per day (roughly according to Mayo clinic) for as long as I no longer experience stress reaction which means that I have cleared my liver of fat? Does it mean that there is no need to increase the dosage even if it takes longer? And what if I do drink more and get a stress reaction on more coffee? Does it mean that there is still problem? What then?

 

[haidut]

post 105112 I am just little confused as to why do people with terrible diet can still do well on coffee. And I am talking about PUFA ladden diet where the individual simply doesn't care at all about their diet. Why is that? Wouldn't they have fatty liver amongst other problems? Is it possible that they don't have fatty liver precisely because they drink coffee? So the coffee is actually protective?

I too get stress reaction with coffee. Would a sensible thing be to drink 1-2 cups of coffee which should give me 200 mg caffein per day (roughly according to Mayo clinic) for as long as I no longer experience stress reaction which means that I have cleared my liver of fat? Does it mean that there is no need to increase the dosage even if it takes longer? And what if I do drink more and get a stress reaction on more coffee? Does it mean that there is still problem? What then?

I posted some studies with animals showing a human equivalent dose of about 200mg daily reversed NAFLD in 2 weeks. So, yes, coffee is protective to the liver and especially so in people consuming high PUFA diet. Their consumption of coffee is not a coincidence, many organisms self-medicate through cravings for specific foods and drinks.
I think 200mg caffeine for 2 months should be able to get the liver lean again. However, there are other mechanisms at play in pathologies that this low-ish dose of caffeine may not address completely. Obesity, diabetes, and PUFA consumption strongly elevate inflammatory biomarkers and some of these "biomarkers" are actually causative of those pathologies thuis creating a vicious circle. A dose of 200mg caffeine daily can hardly affect things like NF-kB , TNF-a, prostaglandins, etc. This is why aspirin synergizes so well with caffeine - both raise metabolism and one is a potent anti-inflammatory as well. Btw, so is niacinamide.

 

[scarlettsmum]

post 105148

post 105112 I am just little confused as to why do people with terrible diet can still do well on coffee. And I am talking about PUFA ladden diet where the individual simply doesn't care at all about their diet. Why is that? Wouldn't they have fatty liver amongst other problems? Is it possible that they don't have fatty liver precisely because they drink coffee? So the coffee is actually protective?

I too get stress reaction with coffee. Would a sensible thing be to drink 1-2 cups of coffee which should give me 200 mg caffein per day (roughly according to Mayo clinic) for as long as I no longer experience stress reaction which means that I have cleared my liver of fat? Does it mean that there is no need to increase the dosage even if it takes longer? And what if I do drink more and get a stress reaction on more coffee? Does it mean that there is still problem? What then?

I posted some studies with animals showing a human equivalent dose of about 200mg daily reversed NAFLD in 2 weeks. So, yes, coffee is protective to the liver and especially so in people consuming high PUFA diet. Their consumption of coffee is not a coincidence, many organisms self-medicate through cravings for specific foods and drinks.
I think 200mg caffeine for 2 months should be able to get the liver lean again. However, there are other mechanisms at play in pathologies that this low-ish dose of caffeine may not address completely. Obesity, diabetes, and PUFA consumption strongly elevate inflammatory biomarkers and some of these "biomarkers" are actually causative of those pathologies thuis creating a vicious circle. A dose of 200mg caffeine daily can hardly affect things like NF-kB , TNF-a, prostaglandins, etc. This is why aspirin synergizes so well with caffeine - both raise metabolism and one is a potent anti-inflammatory as well. Btw, so is niacinamide.

Thanks Haidut.

 

[kaybb]

I am still trying the caffine (up to 150mg) for liver health but had to cut down, because I am having trouble tolerating hard heart beating, irregular beats...just weird heart beating...I notice it when lying down the most. It is making sleep very difficult. I am taking mag. 200-300mg, also tuarine It's not stopping even with cutting down caffine to approx 30-40mg. I also take k2 and asprin, also taking caffine with food.
What else can I try to help the heart weirdness :? I have felt better on caffine.....want to cont it!

 

[Dean]

theanine seems to be the recommendation for countering the jittery effects of caffeine. I have been making a major push to ramp up my caffeine intake and found theanine too sedating though. Still, I seem to be tolerating caffeine very well. I don't know if it is the gram of niacinamide I am also taking throughout the day or the quarter of an aspirin I take with each caffeine dose. Something though is allowing me to tolerate up to 300 mg/day these last few days without the wired, jittery effect it has always given me in the past.

 

[kaybb]

post 106435 theanine seems to be the recommendation for countering the jittery effects of caffeine. I have been making a major push to ramp up my caffeine intake and found theanine too sedating though. Still, I seem to be tolerating caffeine very well. I don't know if it is the gram of niacinamide I am also taking throughout the day or the quarter of an aspirin I take with each caffeine dose. Something though is allowing me to tolerate up to 300 mg/day these last few days without the wired, jittery effect it has always given me in the past.

I like theanine....worth a try ! Thanks Dean. And niacinamide is on my list.