Calling Time On Ray Peat

[Makrosky]

They definitely could! I used to get insomnia from the enzymes so I have not tried them out in a long time, but I am getting some next week to give a go to.

My protocol was to buy 250grams from bulk supplements on Amazon. I did about 1/4 of a teaspoon per meal. Careful when it's a powder, it will chew up your teeth and esophagus. I swallow it with a thick grape juice really quickly and that seems to work.

From there I got less water retention, much flatter blood sugar profile, less hunger, felt better. So I kept upping it until now I do almost a teaspoon per meal. I am just starting to get some burning feeling in my stomach and base of throat, so I am probably at the upper limit. Almost done with the 250g bag too which is kind of mind blowing.

There is also this HCL test you can google. I did that and got no burning whatsoever, meaning I did not have enough stomach acid. Combined that with low Chloride on blood tests, and high Co2, and I thought that gbold's recommendation of HCL might be right. It has been so far!

Wow, thanks! So you mean that you can kind of refill the body HCL levels after sometime use ?

 

[Makrosky]

They definitely could! I used to get insomnia from the enzymes so I have not tried them out in a long time, but I am getting some next week to give a go to.

My protocol was to buy 250grams from bulk supplements on Amazon. I did about 1/4 of a teaspoon per meal. Careful when it's a powder, it will chew up your teeth and esophagus. I swallow it with a thick grape juice really quickly and that seems to work.

From there I got less water retention, much flatter blood sugar profile, less hunger, felt better. So I kept upping it until now I do almost a teaspoon per meal. I am just starting to get some burning feeling in my stomach and base of throat, so I am probably at the upper limit. Almost done with the 250g bag too which is kind of mind blowing.

There is also this HCL test you can google. I did that and got no burning whatsoever, meaning I did not have enough stomach acid. Combined that with low Chloride on blood tests, and high Co2, and I thought that gbold's recommendation of HCL might be right. It has been so far!

Oh and by the way, you are referring to betaine HCL right ?

Are you sure the benefits are not from the molecule being very similar to TMG ?

 

[Xisca]

I think we all intuitively know if we like something

The problem is with hidden stuff... Like oil looking like oil, carraghenan being hidden...
It sucks me to ask for eveything, and to realize people do not know what is in the food, even in a restaurant! I have the problem with gluten already....

 

[Xisca]

I am just starting to get some burning feeling in my stomach and base of throat, so I am probably at the upper limit.
There is also this HCL test you can google.

Yeah you have to do the test. And I get the same feelings as you, now even with 1 pill. So off...
HCl is what helps the body to digest proteins and then signal in the duodenum that the pancreas and liver have to send their alkaline salts.
I do not know the effect of beaine though....

 

[Makrosky]

In my case: It helped me to get back to my base line after being ill, but now just one lamberts pill make my stomach burn!
I really am on the track of cortisol... and also digestive enzymes, as pancreas seems to be behind protein digestion too. I do not remember what I found but there was a link between cortisol and pancreas in my findings on the web (not from the forum, just ordinary knowledge from the web about pancreas and cortisol)

The fact that it helps at the beginning and after that you get stomach burns, as it's happening to Tarmander also, is indicative or two possible things :
1- You restore levels of HCL on the body and you don't need it anymore.
2- You damage something on the stomach and you can tolerate less.

I hope it's the 1st one

 

[theLaw]

The problem is with hidden stuff... Like oil looking like oil, carraghenan being hidden...
It sucks me to ask for eveything, and to realize people do not know what is in the food, even in a restaurant! I have the problem with gluten already....

+1

Saltines = .1G Pufa per cracker - 1G of pufa for every 10 crackers!!!

 

[cyclops]

In the US, he drinks low fat commercial milk. He told me that.

Does that automatically mean its crappy?

 

[Tarmander]

Oh and by the way, you are referring to betaine HCL right ?

Are you sure the benefits are not from the molecule being very similar to TMG ?

Yeah that is an interesting question. I am using betaine HCL. Not sure exactly how much the increased methylation and glycine are helping. I definitely felt some emotions and a bit of a roller-coaster when I first started using it. Glycine tends to get me sick from too much lowering my immune system, and TMG used to give me violent nausea, so something has changed since 5 years ago.

I do not know about refilling HCL stores. Gbold explains the theory better then I, but basically you have too high CO2, cells react with lowering their output of CO2 (decreased metabolism), and go into this alkalosis state. HCL being acidic somehow fixes this. I should have said in my first post, that I started with only 1/4 teaspoon at just breakfast, and then increased from there.

 

[Tarmander]

The fact that it helps at the beginning and after that you get stomach burns, as it's happening to Tarmander also, is indicative or two possible things :
1- You restore levels of HCL on the body and you don't need it anymore.
2- You damage something on the stomach and you can tolerate less.

I hope it's the 1st one

I dont get burning if I do a teaspoon per mean, just when I went over that amount. So I don't think any damage is being done.

 

[paymanz]

If you have any insight on nutrition share with US.

Ray is more than milk and sugar. If you really have read deep what ray says in his words and articles.

My message is not directed to OP necessarily.

 

[alywest]

+1

Saltines = .1G Pufa per cracker - 1G of pufa for every 10 crackers!!!

That's why I like water crackers: Ingredients: unbleached white flour, olive oil, salt. 0% iron. Basically just a vehicle to get cheese in your mouth and make it have more texture. I guess. Why am I addicted to crackers?

 

[Drareg]

I appreciate Ray's thoughts as an internet health personality, and I think he has some good points, but I think his ideas are an incomplete picture, and ultimately they don't lead to any new or helpful knowledge.

I suppose I humbly disagree that a "good diet" and a "good environment" can preserve health. I think both can contribute substantially, but I don't think that Ray's picture is the full picture.

I do agree that modern medicine is dogmatic and illogical at times, and this is a tragic misuse of science and technology. But writing lonely articles about it won't create change. Ray is very talented, but he hasn't attempted to use his talents to strongly disrupt the prevailing powers he dissents against.

He defers key aspects of his reasonings to Gilbert Ling, but Ray isn't a qualified chemist, and I believe he is using his talent as a linguist to blush over the finer points, as well as disguise the failings in Ling's claims. I don't really know why he does this. I mean, there is crystal spectrometry imaging of human cells that demonstrate reality aligning with the current model. Also, the current model is far more sophisticated than the "bags of water" description Ray often alleges. It is a straw man argument. No one says this.

I asked Danny Roddy about this, and he said he doesn't understand Gilbert Ling at all, but still believes Peat is absolutely right. To date, no one on this forum can engage directly with the claims of Ling. Even if turns out Ling is absolutely correct, no one has specified what the consequences of Ling's model are. Ling himself uses the term Hypothesis, which indicates there is further room for discussion.

Anyway, I've started consuming less sugar and nothing bad happened. I returned to eating normally, enjoying a few scrambled eggs. I no longer drink juice and crappy light milk. Over time this high liquid protocol lowered my cholesterol, and flattened my sex drive. I feel hungry now in a good, heathy way that feels good and stimulates my appetite, and I don't worry about food and iron and vitamin C and all that stuff, it just causes unnecessary concern.

If Ray Peat even lives to 100, I will eat my shoe with PUFA sauce drizzled on top.

Ray Peat states his ideas are an incomplete picture so you have made one big straw man for attention. You offer no examples just opinions so essentially this is an opinion piece with nothing to counter!

Your second paragraph is hilarious a good diet and good environment can preserve health so please clarify in your hubris fueled opinion what additionally preserves health more so than what you project onto Peat that he somehow forgot ? Another who is fed up Peat doesn’t offer immortality!

Please clarify where he defers key reasoning to Ling,clarify what you feel is key? The only one using linguistic tricks here is you to offer an opinion under the illusion you have any idea about the cell physiology or biochem spoken about.
Yes Peat understands the current model(you dont) and uses the bags of water in jest to the past yet you use it to attack Peats argument,are you actually for real? Rofl!

Why bring Danny roddy into it and why do you care if roddy doesn’t understand Ling,roddy is studying it all so I’m sure it will take time,head over to Lings website where he discusses the consequences of his theory,also read Peats articles where he discuss it also. There a multitude of People who are using Lings theory,the hubris to state this sums you up,look into mri machines from the beginning as a start,Gerald Pollack and host more.

Why not just call time on it,why tell everyone ? Oh that’s because you crave attention,I’ll take a wild guess here,another deafeated at captilism male wanting to sink anger into the world under the guise of a passive aggressive faux polite post,head over the gbolduev forum and take some pills,it’s a place where you can sink biologically back into your old paradigms where you are comfortable.

Ray is in his 80’s ,living much longer than the angry undersexed males rampant on this forum. You no little to nothing about Ray Peat or Lings implications,you clearly can’t process what they are saying.

 

[Drareg]

Tldr: he disagrees because he didn't feel well and because no one understands Ling

Did I miss anything? Peace out bro.

He’s at home now foaming at the mouth thinking he is stirring it up on here,this post alone will take this forum,lings theory,Peat and roddy DOWN!

 

[Drareg]

It's amazing how attacked some of you feel when someone dares leave the 'sect', or wants to explore different ways of thinking. Just relax. The reality is that there are a lot of people struggling on this forum. The guy/girl is perfectly ok to talk about his/her doubts and his/her problems. No need to kick him/her in the face when he/she is down, directionless and (probably) confused.

And Westside PUFA criticising somebody for not being 'fun to be around'. LOL. Good one. You know that your life is in the toilet when that guy is saying you are no fun

It’s not Peats fault they are struggling,they sign up here with the struggle,few people sign up here believing they are in good health,ironically many probably are in good internal health but being defeated socialy is the real suppressed issue ,they probably didn’t need to drink quarts of milk or OJ but it was easier to have a physical illness rather than say society is beating me down,they have little money or view of retirement,it’s no surprise that the rise in interest of things like adrenal fatigue in times of economic inequality,a minute few will have sincere issues with adrenals yet we have millions running to "alternative practioners " for adrenal fatigue or taking potent abortion drugs for masculinity and erectile dysfunction!

 

[theLaw]

That's why I like water crackers: Ingredients: unbleached white flour, olive oil, salt. 0% iron. Basically just a vehicle to get cheese in your mouth and make it have more texture. I guess. Why am I addicted to crackers?

Haidut mentioned that the need for starch might be connected to ongoing blood sugar issues as your body looks for that quick bump.

Five saltines = 12G carbs - same as a tbsp of white sugar with quicker rise in blood sugar + cheese delivery system to boot (calcium+ protein + fat).

 

[Tenacity]

I don't really get the big deal about finding it difficult to stick to 'Peat's recommendations'. It's simple. Eat real food, and avoid the harmful pseudo-foods unless absolutely necessary. There's no reason a human being cannot be healthy on a balanced diet of fruit, honey, meat, dairy, eggs, tubers and leaves. Those are real foods. If you choose to consume hazardous substances, knowing that they are hazardous, that says something about the way you see the world, your values, and the strength of your convictions. Peat's utility is in helping you determine the quantities and types of those foods to consume, preventing you from being a low-carb paleo dieter, for instance.

 

[Xisca]

The fact that it helps at the beginning and after that you get stomach burns, as it's happening to Tarmander also, is indicative or two possible things :
1- You restore levels of HCL on the body and you don't need it anymore.
2- You damage something on the stomach and you can tolerate less.

I do wander if this is about levels in the body.... I did not see it like this! Is it in the body, or does the stomach makes it when needed?

As I do not have any heart burn, I think number 1...
When I took some betaine HCl with success, I had night burns that resolved by being brave enough to get up and drink a spoonful of vinegar!
(with little water and just a little more after, to clear the oesophagus of course)
I think this is a sure sign of needing it...

 

[alywest]

I don't really get the big deal about finding it difficult to stick to 'Peat's recommendations'. It's simple. Eat real food, and avoid the harmful pseudo-foods unless absolutely necessary. There's no reason a human being cannot be healthy on a balanced diet of fruit, honey, meat, dairy, eggs, tubers and leaves. Those are real foods. If you choose to consume hazardous substances, knowing that they are hazardous, that says something about the way you see the world, your values, and the strength of your convictions. Peat's utility is in helping you determine the quantities and types of those foods to consume, preventing you from being a low-carb paleo dieter, for instance.

When I was being told that coffee was bad for me, and that was just all there was to it, it's bad, the end, I still wanted it and couldn't give up on it. And it needed milk and sugar which were also huge no-no's. So my body seemed to override that message that was being told to my brain and pretty much forced me to go back to it. Why do alcoholics keep drinking? There is evidence that many are deficient in certain nutrients, particularly b vitamins. Is their craving for alcohol some sort of desperate attempt of the body to fulfill some physiological requirement? Or is it a sign of a morally bankrupt character? I mean, it's easy to throw stones...I think if you get to the point where those real, fresh foods are all you are craving, then that is part of the health journey and you have probably made quite a bit of progress. Some of us struggle a bit more, but I'm certainly not going to blame Peat for my shortcomings. Could it possibly be his fault that I like bread? I mean, Oprah loves bread and Oprah's a good person. (That last part was a joke in case you think i'm totally crazy at this point.)

 

[alywest]

 

[Xisca]

It's simple. Eat real food, and avoid the harmful pseudo-foods unless absolutely necessary. There's no reason a human being cannot be healthy on a balanced diet of fruit, honey, meat, dairy, eggs, tubers and leaves.

Agree for real food, and veggies are part of real food that not many people in this forum seem to appreciate, though they are very tradional in all diets in the world! For me, UHT milk and packs of orange juice are not real food. Raw milk and fresh oranges are. And it should not be necessary to remove the fat and homogeneize the milk. If you need to remove the fat, it can mean you drink too much of it. You can get calcium from bone broth too...
I am not a fan of grains and legumes, but the trick is to have them only well prepared, which is time consuming.
Also the balance between what you mentionned (a good list BTW! just add sea food) depends on the respective quantities of each. And this is nothing else than personal, according to your personal physiology. It can also vary according to the seasons etc. Peat advises for tropical fruits first, and I see more advises about processed juices and sugar. Of course, they are cheap and easy to get, so I understand... but if you live in Scotland, you'd better off oranges and on oats, wouldn't you?