Copper Excess And No Potassium

[Findlay]

Just had a complex hair mineral test done. Very high copper - probably due to eating weekly liver. I've cut back on both liver, dark chocolate and avocados and upped my intake of vitamin C as I believe vitamin C helps chelate copper.
The other oddity is that my potassium was virtually zero - I had been eating sweet potatoes daily with huge amounts of vegetables, so it seems I have a problem assimilating potassium. I have increased my magnesium as I believe magnesium helps balance all minerals including potassium.
Would appreciate some commentary from anyone who has some experience with mineral balance. I don't know how one can eat the RDA of potassium in food as it just doesn't seem possible unless you are eating pockets of sweet potatoes daily.

 

[tara]

I don't know anything about how reliable hair mineral tests are or how to interpret them., but ...

I don't know how one can eat the RDA of potassium in food as it just doesn't seem possible unless you are eating pockets of sweet potatoes daily.

Looks as though 1 l of OJ + 1 l of milk get you pretty close to RDA? Add in a bit more fruit and veges ...

 

[Giraffe]

I don't know how one can eat the RDA of potassium in food as it just doesn't seem possible unless you are eating pockets of sweet potatoes daily.

There is no RDA for potassium. The AI for the US is 4,700 mg (which is high compared to other countries). No problem to get that amount from food. I get more than 6,000 mg.

.........

1 quart of milk: 1,396 mg
4 cups of orange juice: 1,984 mg
2 medium sized potatoes: 1,096 mg
1 small banana: 362 mg
3 cups of coffee: 348 mg

 

[Sheila]

Hello Findlay,
Hair mineral analysis needs some careful analysis once the pretty charts are produced and the computer-generated recommendations have been er um generated.

No potassium clearly can't be the state of play with your tissues generally, or you wouldn't be typing, so high copper may, or may not mean you have excess. It may just mean you can't use what you have as in diseases such as CLL for example. When I studied this, I found Wilson's Book Nutritional Balancing by Dr. Larry Wilson useful for gaining their perspective and there are many free articles on his website. There are quite a few excellent discussion on the macro and trace minerals here, like copper and its effects, which might be helpful to assess what your hair mineral analysis really means to the absolute individual that is you.

Best regards
Sheila

 

[Pointless]

Potassium is also an issue for me. If I don't supplement extra potassium chloride, I get pulled muscles that don't heal until I take more potassium. Since I suffer from an inflammatory bowel disease, malabsorption comes with the territory, and if I have a bout of diarrhea, potassium is lost. And I drink a ton of milk and juice.

Also, I'm not sure how true this is, but people in the methylation world say that when you reverse a deficiency of B12 and methyl groups (disclaimer: Ray Peat recommends limiting methyl donors, at least for most cases), then your cells start to replicate like crazy, because they can't reproduce without B12. And supposedly this is what causes the sometimes life-threatening drop in potassium in the blood that people get when starting these protocols. If there's any truth to that (and yes it's a lot of speculation), then maybe coming out of a hypothyroid state would also trigger a rush of cell replication that could drain potassium.

 

[Richiebogie]

Fruit and veg are high in vitamin C, Potassium and Copper.

They are low in zinc, however which competes with copper.

Milk has a little zinc but oysters, beef and lamb (not the liver) have lots.

Or you could try zinc supplements!

 

[jyb]

Just had a complex hair mineral test done. Very high copper - probably due to eating weekly liver. I've cut back on both liver, dark chocolate and avocados and upped my intake of vitamin C as I believe vitamin C helps chelate copper.
The other oddity is that my potassium was virtually zero - I had been eating sweet potatoes daily with huge amounts of vegetables, so it seems I have a problem assimilating potassium. I have increased my magnesium as I believe magnesium helps balance all minerals including potassium.
Would appreciate some commentary from anyone who has some experience with mineral balance. I don't know how one can eat the RDA of potassium in food as it just doesn't seem possible unless you are eating pockets of sweet potatoes daily.

Did RP say anything about hair mineral tests? Some people swear by it but I got no idea if it's legit. All I know is that it is pricey.

 

[EIRE24]

So, if liver is the only thing you eat to rely on some zinc it would be a bad idea due to it being high in copper and they both compete?

Should we eat other foods rich in zinc to make sure there is not a copper excess? Are oysters like this too?

 

[Richiebogie]

So, if liver is the only thing you eat to rely on some zinc it would be a bad idea due to it being high in copper and they both compete?

Should we eat other foods rich in zinc to make sure there is not a copper excess? Are oysters like this too?

Yes it looks like the copper from lamb liver will swamp the zinc.

Better to eat the whole lamb to get the mammal ratios (that is muscle meat and organs and bones in proportion).

Oysters tend to have lots of zinc and little copper which might balance the vegetable sources of copper and zinc. Traditional Pacific Islander diets included potatoes, fruit, fish & shellfish.

 

[EIRE24]

Yes, its interesting. I eat liver for the vitamin A for acne but I know zinc is also crucial for acne and if copper is swamping that like you say it could be a problem. What would be best to do to make sure that vitamin A and zinc are both high without copper causing problems? Eat more oysters than liver?

 

[Atalanta]

Just had a complex hair mineral test done. Very high copper - probably due to eating weekly liver. I've cut back on both liver, dark chocolate and avocados and upped my intake of vitamin C as I believe vitamin C helps chelate copper.
The other oddity is that my potassium was virtually zero - I had been eating sweet potatoes daily with huge amounts of vegetables, so it seems I have a problem assimilating potassium. I have increased my magnesium as I believe magnesium helps balance all minerals including potassium.
Would appreciate some commentary from anyone who has some experience with mineral balance. I don't know how one can eat the RDA of potassium in food as it just doesn't seem possible unless you are eating pockets of sweet potatoes daily.

That is good reason to doubt the validity of the test. Zero potassium=dead.

Where did you get the information that magnesium balances all minerals?
Too much magnesium can cause loss of minerals through loose bowels.

Hair absorbs minerals from water and hair products so it is possible that your high copper reading has nothing to do with your body's levels of copper. Copper deficiency is much more common than copper excess.

 

[Atalanta]

Yes, its interesting. I eat liver for the vitamin A for acne but I know zinc is also crucial for acne and if copper is swamping that like you say it could be a problem. What would be best to do to make sure that vitamin A and zinc are both high without copper causing problems? Eat more oysters than liver?

Zinc interferes with copper more than copper interferes with zinc.

Inside the body, most of the copper is tightly bound to proteins so copper cannot remove zinc from the body. If you ingest lots of copper with zinc at the same time, they may compete for absorption, so just take zinc and copper at different times.

I think copper deficiency is very common and that is reflected in the early graying of many people. Vegetarians often experience early graying and that is because copper from plant foods is not as well absorbed as copper from animal foods.

 

[EIRE24]

Zinc interferes with copper more than copper interferes with zinc.

Inside the body, most of the copper is tightly bound to proteins so copper cannot remove zinc from the body. If you ingest lots of copper with zinc at the same time, they may compete for absorption, so just take zinc and copper at different times.

I think copper deficiency is very common and that is reflected in the early graying of many people. Vegetarians often experience early graying and that is because copper from plant foods is not as well absorbed as copper from animal foods.

How could it be possible to take zinc and copper apart unless you are supplementing it?

 

[Giraffe]

Zinc interferes with copper more than copper interferes with zinc.

 

[EIRE24]

So what would you advise for someone who wants to increase zinc without supplements but also favour Copper?

 

[ecstatichamster]

i can't see a hair test being useful for potassium or any of the alkaline metals. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Giraffe]

So what would you advise for someone who wants to increase zinc without supplements but also favour Copper?

Make sure you get adequate amounts of both, copper and zinc, as well as vitamin B6. (I read that the body needs vitamin B6 to make use of the zinc and copper). Calcium seems to help with mineral balance, and I suspect that magnesium does the same.

Zinc is best absorpted from animal proteins. By the way, milk is a good source of zinc, high bioavailability.

I personally don't worry too much about ratios. I think, most of the time the body can sort this out just fine as long as the intake of all minerals and co-factors is adequate.

If I wanted too boost copper a bit I would see that I eat copper-rich foods with fructose and away from zinc- or iron-rich foods. Fruits have good ratios.

For zinc... all animal proteins (sea food, meat, organ meat, dairy, eggs...)

I wonder if @Wilfrid has more suggestions. :)

related thread: Does High Calcium Intake Deplete Zinc?

 

[EIRE24]

Thanks @Giraffe. Do you think it would be a bad idea to eat oysters daily to make sure I have plenty of zinc for acne? I know its also very high in iron the same as liver which has vitamin A so I am not sure what to do about both of these foods that are super for acne but also contain lots and lots of iron

 

[Richiebogie]

Yes, its interesting. I eat liver for the vitamin A for acne but I know zinc is also crucial for acne and if copper is swamping that like you say it could be a problem. What would be best to do to make sure that vitamin A and zinc are both high without copper causing problems? Eat more oysters than liver?

Chicken liver has vitamin A without much zinc or copper, so you could try having both Chicken liver and oysters. You don't need much of each.

 

[ecstatichamster]

i wonder what effect ion exchange resins have...some of them have silver, copper and zinc and I imagine this ends up in the water...who knows in what ratios, or how well it is absorbed, but it could be important

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