Low Toxin Logs It's been 3 weeks and I may have gone too fast

kamiak

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Hi all! I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to post a log of sorts. I feel I could use some specific pointers for some things I've encountered, so I'll lay out the context.

After being in the Weston a price world for about 5 years and the Peaty world for about 3, I was super skeptical of all of this. But Poisoning For Profits had overwhelming evidence imo and I figured what do I have to lose? The problem may lie in the fact that I'm an all or nothing kind of person.

I was eating a super high fat diet up until 3 weeks ago. Mostly from dairy-- raw cow and goat milk, and organic grass fed cheeses and yogurt. I'm very meticulous in choosing my brands, but come to find out a couple of them may have been fortified, unbeknownst to me. I also have always incorporated liver, whether through liver shots, paté, or dessicated supplements. I don't consume it religiously though, and mostly it's been cycling in and out of my diet for the last 3 years, as well as things like carrot salads. But overall I believe I've been eating a high vitamin and copper diet (and relatively low vitamin bs because of a bias against grains and legumes,) for quite some time.

Within 4 days of starting niacin and low vitamin a, my eyes became tender and sensitive to light. That seems to come and go and fluctuates day to day. About a week in, I developed a small patch of dry skin on my left hand. They look like small bumps filled with fluid, and can be very itchy at times. These are new issues to me, so I eased back a little bit, and added in 1 egg a day and an occasional glass of raw milk, but otherwise I was getting little to no vitamin a.

Two weeks in, I got a zinc supplement. I took a very small dose for 2 days-- about 5-7mg. I got raging flu symptoms immediately, lots of congestion and achiness and a horrific 3 day headache that believe or not seemed to be radiating all of the way from my gallbladder through my right shoulder and into my neck. My liver and kidneys ached a bit too, so I lowered my dose of niacin, thinking maybe I was pushing a detox too hard. At this point I'd gotten up to 250mg, so I came back down to 150. I'm currently at 200mg buffered 2x a day, and this dose gives me a very dry mouth but I feel ok. I've stopped zinc. It's also worth mentioning that I've been chronically constipated my whole life, and so I took an oxygenated magnesium twice too. My thinking was that I didn't want to be detoxing and not pooping, and this product is meant to give you multiple bowel movements the next day. And it did. I was on the toilet a lot with loose green stools, and the flu symptoms intensified. So I took a bunch of activated charcoal and I waited a couple of days before taking the magnesium again, and that time achieved no bowel movements. Its been 2 days since I had a bowel movement now, which is my "normal" and I'm not sure what to do about it, I think all of the activated charcoal to counteract the detox may have slowed things back down. I will probably do an enema tonight. I am doing fine with the incorporation of oats and beans, as well as alternating sunfiber and psyllium husk, but it hasn't made any consistent improvement in my bowel movements. My meat eating habits haven't changed as I've always eaten lots of high quality beef and chicken. Veggie and fruit habits changed some, I cut carrots and sweet potatoes out and the out of season fruits we were eating.

At the moment I am open to suggestions on tapering things a bit more, because I am a mother of two young children and we are moving across the country in a month. I can't be laid up with detox headaches and bipolar digestion, and I want to do this safely. I am also using myself as a sort of guinea pig in a sense, because I have loved ones that exhibit alarming signs of vitamin a poisoning and yet are skeptical. A brother with horrible open mouth sores and slow metabolism. A sister with diabetes 1, hypothyroidism, and nonstop rashes and sores all over her body. Not to mention a 3 year old daughter who was born at the peak of my high vitamin a and copper lifestyle, and has my chronic constipation and dry skin as well as a growing irritability and craving for chocolate. All that to say I want to do this right. There are people who need to know if the answer lies in low vA more than I do.

Throw me your thoughts, encouragements, criticisms, and personal experiences. I will continue to tweak and report any changes or new discoveries.
 

Nick

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I found it helpful to taper my vitamin A intake down over a few weeks at the beginning. I think there is sometimes more of a withdrawal effect when you go cold turkey. There is probably also an argument for changing other habits over the course of several weeks, such as adding new kinds of fiber, to let your gut adjust. I also know I could not have handled that much niacin when I was only 3 weeks into low-VA eating.
 
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kamiak

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I found it helpful to taper my vitamin A intake down over a few weeks at the beginning. I think there is sometimes more of a withdrawal effect when you go cold turkey. There is probably also an argument for changing other habits over the course of several weeks, such as adding new kinds of fiber, to let your gut adjust. I also know I could not have handled that much niacin when I was only 3 weeks into low-VA eating.
Makes a lot of sense actually, I could definitely liken it to a withdrawal. Adding a bit back in via eggs and milk didn't seem to do much for me though, so I'm keeping the amount low. And while I did introduce one kind of fiber at a time (this felt important because I realized how little fiber was in my diet up until that point) I probably did not go slow enough with each new fiber source.

As for the niacin, I always felt really good after a flush so I just kept playing with it and taking more. But I do wonder if it was too much too fast. About how much niacin did you start with? I recently saw Charlie's chart for upping niacin 25mg a week, if I remember right. I think I went up 50mg every 3-4 days 😬
 
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kamiak

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I think currently the consistent ache in my liver is the most bothersome and I'm assuming that's because I overburdened it with my eagerness. I will be backing off on the niacin and maybe dropping sunfiber because when I was just doing psyllium husk I had noticed some improvement in constipation.
 

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I will be backing off on the niacin and maybe dropping sunfiber because when I was just doing psyllium husk I had noticed some improvement in constipation.
Maybe too much of a good thing if you are already eating oats and beans.
 
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kamiak

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Maybe too much of a good thing if you are already eating oats and beans.
I typically alternate them, if I eat oats for breakfast I don't eat beans later, but maybe I should drop extra fiber altogether and just let my gut adjust to these new foods.
 

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Beans push detox for me quite a lot and can feel sick for a couple of days as if I am being poisoned if I overdo them. I am 4+ months into the lowA and had to chicken out two times by eating eggs with butter as it became overwhelming. In reality though this move did not help much but caused additional symptoms that took 1 week to subside.

Instead of eating high A foods like eggs and milk and introduce MORE of what we are trying to detox I think it is better to lower Niacin and go slow on the soluble fiber which is the main agitator for bile release and symptoms to increase.
 
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kamiak

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Beans push detox for me quite a lot and can feel sick for a couple of days as if I am being poisoned if I overdo them. I am 4+ months into the lowA and had to chicken out two times by eating eggs with butter as it became overwhelming. In reality though this move did not help much but caused additional symptoms that took 1 week to subside.

Instead of eating high A foods like eggs and milk and introduce MORE of what we are trying to detox I think it is better to lower Niacin and go slow on the soluble fiber which is the main agitator for bile release and symptoms to increase.
Thanks for sharing!! I hadn't really noticed a correlation between eating beans and feeling sick but I'm going to look into that. I eat them every 1-3 days, and so maybe I hadn't noticed an uptick in symptoms because of the consistent, spread out intake.

"Feel as though I'm being poisoned." That's exactly how I have felt this last week especially. I suppose I assumed since I have been struggling with constipation again, that meant bile was *not* flowing. But I did have some dark brown and green stools before I triggered a big detox with the magnesium and zinc and messed it all up. I've also had a lot of orange stools since starting low vA, which I saw someone else mention signifies your body is dumping vA. I suppose I don't care what color poop I have right now I just want to be going.

I'll be easing up on the fiber and niacin and see what happens.
 

Peater

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I suppose I don't care what color poop I have right now I just want to be going.
Something possibly worth considering - I noticed a few years ago that B2/riboflavin really helps me here. I understand that B1 and B2 are synergistic, and linked with B3.
 
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kamiak

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Something possibly worth considering - I noticed a few years ago that B2/riboflavin really helps me here. I understand that B1 and B2 are synergistic, and linked with B3.
I actually did start taking b1, but not b2. I'm assuming those would just be a normal, daily dose and not a climbing scale like niacin?
 

Sebastian B

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I am also about a month in, with a similar diet background, and I am also suffering from chronic constipation, which I developed on my one-meal-a-day-keto days. I will be following to see what helps you.
 

purple pill

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hows your water intake? I locked my bowels up pretty hard in the beginning which I think was mostly due to upping fibre while at the same time dropping my main source of fluid intake which was milk. Even resorted to literally swigging milk of magnesia from the bottle to try get things moving to no effect (before a teaspoon wouldve done)

I've never really had the urge to drink water for a long time (outside of coffees, teas, milk, juice etc) but since dropping coffee and milk and going through pretty horrendous flu symptoms a few weeks back i've been upping my water intake quite a bit and finally developing a "taste" for it which seems to be helping quite a lot in keeping me regularly.
 

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I actually did start taking b1, but not b2. I'm assuming those would just be a normal, daily dose and not a climbing scale like niacin?
It would be all about what worked for you. You might only need to take it for a bit before you could stop, although B1 and B2 are quite safe. I think potassium and magnesium are the only cofactors which most health conscious people take care of anyway. Potassium and magnesium would help your issue too.
 
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kamiak

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hows your water intake? I locked my bowels up pretty hard in the beginning which I think was mostly due to upping fibre while at the same time dropping my main source of fluid intake which was milk. Even resorted to literally swigging milk of magnesia from the bottle to try get things moving to no effect (before a teaspoon wouldve done)

I've never really had the urge to drink water for a long time (outside of coffees, teas, milk, juice etc) but since dropping coffee and milk and going through pretty horrendous flu symptoms a few weeks back i've been upping my water intake quite a bit and finally developing a "taste" for it which seems to be helping quite a lot in keeping me regularly.
This is a great point because I was drinking a lot of milk and juice before. I think my water intake is pretty good though, I'm probably drinking about 60 ounces a day. I just have a giant cup I take with me everywhere so I'm not tempted to forget to drink haha
 
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kamiak

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It would be all about what worked for you. You might only need to take it for a bit before you could stop, although B1 and B2 are quite safe. I think potassium and magnesium are the only cofactors which most health conscious people take care of anyway. Potassium and magnesium would help your issue too.
Yep, doing lots of potassium and magnesium! I'll look into adding b1 and b2, thank you!
 

Sebastian B

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This likely won't make a significant impact, but I've found that warming my water before drinking it makes consumption much easier.
 

frederic

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I think all of the activated charcoal to counteract the detox may have slowed things back down. I will probably do an enema tonight. I am doing fine with the incorporation of oats and beans, as well as alternating sunfiber and psyllium husk, but it hasn't made any consistent improvement in my bowel movements. My meat eating habits haven't changed as I've always eaten lots of high quality beef and chicken. Veggie and fruit habits changed some, I cut carrots and sweet potatoes out and the out of season fruits we were eating.
Hey there.
Taking activated charcoal while constipated is a big no-no. It will only make constipation worse and probably more toxic.
Also, you seem to be taking way too many things at the same time (niacin, sunfiber, psyllium).
Two weeks in and you were taking 250mg of niacin? That's waaaay too fast.
What dosage of sunfiber are you taking?
Regarding psyllium, how much are you taking? Do you take enough water *with it?
60 ounces of water a day? Are you *that thirsty? Is your pee still yellow?
Your reaction to zinc signals a very high toxicity. You should be extra careful. Go extra slow, ie do the opposite of what you are doing right now. Add one thing at a time, at low dosage, assess your reactions and then adjust. The way you did with zinc.
My two cents.
 
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kamiak

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Hey there.
Taking activated charcoal while constipated is a big no-no. It will only make constipation worse and probably more toxic.
Also, you seem to be taking way too many things at the same time (niacin, sunfiber, psyllium).
Two weeks in and you were taking 250mg of niacin? That's waaaay too fast.
What dosage of sunfiber are you taking?
Regarding psyllium, how much are you taking? Do you take enough water *with it?
60 ounces of water a day? Are you *that thirsty? Is your pee still yellow?
Your reaction to zinc signals a very high toxicity. You should be extra careful. Go extra slow, ie do the opposite of what you are doing right now. Add one thing at a time, at low dosage, assess your reactions and then adjust. The way you did with zinc.
My two cents.
I'd actually wondered about that with the charcoal. When I was having the raging flu symptoms and diarrhea it helped me get back to normal. I'm not planning to take it daily.
I agree, I think when one thing felt it wasn't helping I tried stacking them when what I should have done is stopped and reevaluated dosage, product, timing, etc. I've stopped sunfiber completely for now, I'm doing about 1/2 tsp of psyllium with plenty of water.
I mean I don't force 60 ounces, my water cup holds 48 and I usually drink a whole one in the course of a day, sometimes refilled and drink a little of the second cup. But yes, I have been very thirsty with some kidney pain. I'm thinking now it was from going way too high with niacin way too fast.
I'm going to drop some of the things I'm doing and start from ground zero with others so I can find the minimum effective dose. I agree I am probably dealing with very high toxicity, and did too much too fast.
My head is still spinning from all the new information tbh, paired with the effort it's taking to unlearn things from the last few years. I tend to jump in instead of testing the waters so this go slow approach does not come naturally to me. Thank you for your feedback!
 

frederic

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My head is still spinning from all the new information tbh, paired with the effort it's taking to unlearn things from the last few years. I tend to jump in instead of testing the waters so this go slow approach does not come naturally to me. Thank you for your feedback!
It is a lot of information indeed.
This "jumping in instead of testing the waters" may well be a major part of what put us in this mess in the first place. This is an aspect of toxicity that is not much touched upon, here or elsewhere: the fact that many of us tend to overdo things and ignore what our body is telling us. We did it to intoxicate us, we do it again when trying to detoxicate us. Speaking for myself, I knew a deeper change was in order. A mental/psychological change. Which starts by... taking it slowly.
 
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EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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